Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:I could say many things in reply, but the most simple thing to do is to quote Guy.
Guy wrote:Condemnations of invaders have either been to express genuine disgust at their actions (less common these days, but see SC#1 as the archetypical example), or to congratulate them on successfully playing the "bad guys".
To reduce the entirety of invaders' contributions to "successful villains" and IC-condemning them for it runs afoul of reducing their contributions to the game to just that. Indeed, simply being good at invading does not necessarily enhance the game. There is a lot more to ensuring gameplay (and the invasion game specifically) work well in all its aspects - for invaders, natives and defenders; mechnically and socially; and so on.
It won't surprise those who know me that I have strong views on the invasion game and what type of actions contribute to it, nor that an invader organisation being successful is necessarily a positive thing. But I think that where a case exists that an invader has done a lot to contribute to the game, a commendation is an open, and possibly the correct, response.
I firmly believe that Red Back’s collective history as a leader, a regionbuilder, a teacher, and a positive influence on an entire faction of the game, which in turn has granted him near universal respect, is worthy of objective commendation.
I’ve crafted this attempting to focus on many of the same traits featured in other commendations - personal achievement, prominent impact on regions, impact well beyond any single region, helping others, etc. I’d rather focus on debates of those merits than whether raiders can *ever* be commended.
I'd actually rather you say your many things in reply, debate on proposals are a good thing. I never said raiders can never be commended, as that's proven false with EW being commended for fighting the NLO. What I am arguing though, is that they shouldn't get commended for creating a region that's gone on to destroy multiple communities over the years for fun. A condemnation, as we all know, is to express "shock and dismay" at a regions or nations actions.
I don't agree with Guy's sentiment in his second paragraph about condemnations. A condemnation does not reduce their contributions to the game, it just highlights that they're contributions are to the other end of the R/D spectrum. I myself wouldn't see a condemnation of Red Back the way Guy talks about.