[DEFEATED] Condemn Antifa

[American Pere Housh]

Yes i support this as Antifa is a bunch of violet hypocrites saying they are supporters of free speech when they try supressing the free speech of people that disagree with them

Grug going to tread on you

* holds a heavy repeating blaster rifle to Grug's face" "You feel lucky today,punk"

[Kandorith]

The Empire of Kandorith has decided to vote against appalling resolution. We find it utterly shocking that a resolution worded in this way and presented in this way even made it to the voting table.

Even though we do not agree with the region at vote's means and message, this resolution shows no better in contrast. Furthermore this resolution shows no basis of said condemnation nor any evidence of the actions the region at vote is accused of. We find it utterly laughable any delegate would vote in favour of this poorly worded, obviously politically motivated resolution. It is a sad day for the Security Council when a resolution at vote is purely meant to generate outrage, threats and false/non-proven accusations.

Therefore we view this resolution as invalid, comical, baseless and utterly ridiculous and we are calling to other nations to not support this resolution.

Further more, the Great Empire of Kandorith wants to stress it condemns any form of extremism.

[Badener]

Kind of support but it's poorly written

[New Bremerton]

I want to support this proposal, as the co-founder of Northern Redlands, Antifa added our region to the Civil Defence Siren in a list of legitimately fascist regions, with evidence being embassies, tags, and a few comments taken completely out of context. Ninety percent of the posts were done by one person, The Confederate Territory, who was unfortunately the other co-founder. Even worse, members of Northern Redlands / Redlandia are still being generalized as Nazis.

However, this proposal needs more detail on how Antifa is raiding innocent regions.

"NOTING how among the regions that Antifa has invaded, many were peaceful and innocent.
ENRAGED by the fact that Antifa invades peaceful regions and complains when others (of a different ideology) do the same."

The wording is pretty redundant, as one could see.

I'd really proofread the entire proposal because while I agree with you, this is a poorly written proposal.

Took the words right out of my mouth, especially coming from one of Antifa's innocent victims. Merely having an embassy with fascist regions on the grounds of promoting ALL political viewpoints doesn't constitute "evidence" of IRL fascism. TNR is definitely innocent. FCN has turned over a new leaf. NS Left intends to raid/has raided both of these regions. Antifa/The MT Army and NSLeft deserve condemnation for their reckless and overzealous behavior, and for setting a bad example of how to stamp out IRL fascism on NationStates. But given how badly written this proposal is, I'll be voting AGAINST.

Only regions that can be proved beyond reasonable doubt to be hubs of IRL far-right fascist, including radical Islamist, activity deserve to be raided and refounded. Purely RP fascist regions consisting of politically moderate players should be left unmolested, as liberations on purely RP grounds are a form of griefing, which I find morally repugnant. It is not right to break up and disrupt innocent RP communities in this manner.

[Caracasus]

Full support for Antifa as a region and their work rooting out and disrupting fascists online. Against this badly written, innacurate and frankly lazy hack piece.

At least I hope it's lazy. If this is the best that the author can come up with...

[Christian Confederation]

Y'all are confusing me here. A lot of support, the wording is wrong I'll admit. But why not those who would support if it was worded better work together and make a better proposal?

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Yes i support this as Antifa is a bunch of violet hypocrites saying they are supporters of free speech when they try supressing the free speech of people that disagree with them

Is it just violet hypocrites you’re against or can they be any colour?

[Cela]

I was going to give a fiery and passionate argument in support of Antifa, but this resolution is laughably low-effort.

[Caelapes]

i am frankly SHOCKED at all of the people with confederate and gadsen flags coming out of the woodwork to support this garbage proposal

[Christian Confederation]

i am frankly SHOCKED at all of the people with confederate and gadsen flags coming out of the woodwork to support this garbage proposal

What did you say about my flag?

[Greater Germany]

Full support for Antifa as a region and their work rooting out and disrupting fascists online.

They're not accomplishing anything, it's a game.

[Rat Piss]

1. You make it soooo simple to divide big scary physical actions from totally innocent harmless ~expression~, but certainly its less troubling to any sane human being to have their sand castle kicked over, then to find themselves on a beach adorned with swastikas.

I don't mind someone taking out the trash now and again. Freedom of speech is not and never has been total freedom from consequences.

1. Yes, it is that simple; doing something, anything, is disproportionate, as mere advocacy is, on its own, physically harmless and abstract, while actions are concrete and have a physical effect. Kicking-over a fascist's sand castle is, therefore, unjust, as you retaliated against their abhorrent-but-abstract ideas with concrete physical action.

2. It doesn't mean, however, that physical action is acceptable or just. Refusing to hire a neo-Nazi is different from punching a neo-Nazi; in the former case, it is refusing to interact with him (non-action), while, in the latter case, it is physically harming him (action).

In case the message isn't clear, the point is that the words don't matter; saying "exterminate <insert group>", on its own, physically harms exactly zero members of said group. Until the threshold of action is passed, there is no justification for doing harm.

Anyone who can't understand that there are both physical and nonphysical forms of violence must not have had creative enough bullies in middle school.

You are all propping up a terrorist regime that murders fascist regions that are innocent and did no wrong

#CondemnAntifa
#SaveFascistRegions

"fascist regions that are innocent' is a pretty silly oxymoron

[Eastern Selousia]

The government of Eastern Selousia would support this if more reason was given.

[Countriopia]

i am frankly SHOCKED at all of the people with confederate and gadsen flags coming out of the woodwork to support this garbage proposal

What did you say about my flag?

Nobody criticised your flag. It's just that it's "shocking" (read: not shocking at all) that many people who are against anti-fascist actions have flags associated with far-right movements.

Regarding the proposal itself, I voted against, using my WA nation for two main reasons. First of all, I fail to see how any of the coalition's actions are condemnable in any way. Second, the proposal is very low quality. It fails to provide any example or reason for any of its claims beyond "because I we say so".

[Maowi]

If any evidence or examples were provided for the slightly vague claims made in this proposal, I might have even considered the possibility of voting for.

[The Polish-Yugoslav Union]

Why is this what was written? They’re are loads of evidence out there, it isn’t really hard to get an example or two, or 20. But what would Poland know, Poland can’t into space.

[Cekoviu]

Yes i support this as Antifa is a bunch of violet hypocrites saying they are supporters of free speech when they try supressing the free speech of people that disagree with them

Whether this is true or not, Ambassador, the actions of real-life organisations employing the broad title "Antifa" or "Anti-Fascist Action" do not weigh on this resolution concerning the specific region -- the region is not uniformly suppressing free speech and your generalisation here is, frankly, insulting to members of the region who do not engage in poor conduct.

[Yokiria]

Against. The NS version of Antifa is more worthy of a Commendation than a Condemnation.

[Christian Confederation]

What did you say about my flag?

Nobody criticised your flag. It's just that it's "shocking" (read: not shocking at all) that many people who are against anti-fascist actions have flags associated with far-right movements.

Regarding the proposal itself, I voted against, using my WA nation for two main reasons. First of all, I fail to see how any of the coalition's actions are condemnable in any way. Second, the proposal is very low quality. It fails to provide any example or reason for any of its claims beyond "because I we say so".

How is the stars and bars far right?

[Lord Dominator]

Full support for Antifa as a region and their work rooting out and disrupting fascists online.

They're not accomplishing anything, it's a game.

Huh, well you're/anti-antifa people are going through a lot of trouble of a group not accomplishing anything

[World Anarchic Union]

Poor, little Nazis and allied conservatives complaining about the big, scary Antifa... Condemnations like this, if that proposal can even be called that, are just further proof that Antifa is doing something right.
Also, word of advice to the “innocent and unfairly targeted”(ha) conservative regions. If you don’t want to be in the sights of Antifa, consider not allying and rushing so eagerly to the defense of fascist regions. Enabling fascism is really not something an “innocent” region would do.

[Christian Confederation]

They're not accomplishing anything, it's a game.

Huh, well you're/anti-antifa people are going through a lot of trouble of a group not accomplishing anything

Well we're bord and what to do something.

[Grug Island]

Grug going to tread on you

* holds a heavy repeating blaster rifle to Grug's face" "You feel lucky today,punk"

** American Pear House is escorted from the building by two surly cavemen. **

[Ceolophysia]

Also, word of advice to the “innocent and unfairly targeted”(ha) conservative regions. If you don’t want to be in the sights of Antifa, consider not allying and rushing so eagerly to the defense of fascist regions. Enabling fascism is really not something an “innocent” region would do.

Yeah. I feel like the conservative regions who ally themselves with fascist or pseudo-fascist regions do so because they both don't like the scary leftists. The enemy of an enemy is not a friend. Fascism is equally contrary to mainstream conservatism as far-leftism.
Also, I think people on here want to punish NS Antifa because they don't like real life Antifa, even though NS Antifa is basically harmless. This proposal is just too vague for me to support.

[Maowi]

Why is this what was written? They’re are loads of evidence out there, it isn’t really hard to get an example or two, or 20. But what would Poland know, Poland can’t into space.

I'm not entirely sure whether this was aimed at my previous comment, but if it was:
It's the proposal's author's job to state the evidence and compellingly link it to show how it proves and reinforces their argument. The author of this proposal did not do that, so I cannot support it and have voted against it.