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[SUBMITTED] Repeal: Commend Imperium Anglorum

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

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Jocospor
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Posts: 409
Founded: Nov 24, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jocospor » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:33 pm

Yokiria wrote:
Jocospor wrote:That's a very reasonable assumption. We responded to it in our initial telegram to delegates. Here's what we said on the matter:

"Another issue is that many will accuse this proposal as being along the lines of an eye for any eye. We will speak honestly. Certainly, if we hadn't have had a history with I.A., we probably wouldn't find ourselves writing this proposal. That said, most authors commending and condemning have a history with their subjects, and we also hope that the points raised within the proposal can be seen as going beyond some sort of protracted feud."


An apt response overall, with an exception I'll get to later. The points raised within the proposal are hit-and-miss, in my opinion. Some are objectively good rebukes of the material in the Commendation, others are questionable. With a well-written proposal overall, that houses a few questionable rebukes of key materials in Commendation, outside factors are what will push me off the fence and into a stronger stance.

Now-confirmed suspicion that you came up with this repeal idea based on a personal grudge, and the failure of your "most authors have a history with their subjects" line to convince me of the harmlessness of such intentions, pushes me off the fence and against this proposal.

If these other authors that commend and condemn based on personal animosity were also as obvious about it as you are, Jocospor, I would not support their bills either.
Unless we had similar motives, of course. IA has never crossed me, though, so that doesn't apply here.


It does not look like we shall sway you on this matter. Hopefully others believe us. We thank you for your input on this matter, it's appreciated.
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
CONFEDERATION OF CORRUPT DICTATORS | OFFICE OF THE VICEROY | DELEGATE'S OFFICE
JOCOSPOR | FOREIGN AFFAIRS OFFICE


"Destroy democracy. End degeneracy. Love your Emperor. Thou shalt know no fear."
- Farland Macmillan, Grand High Direktor of the Empire, addressing the 3rd Imperial Cabinet

(All posts IC unless marked otherwise)

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Yokiria
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Founded: Jan 24, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Yokiria » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:13 am

I hope my input proves helpful in your future proposals. It is always a treat reading your proposals, no matter the intent, because of your literary prowess.
~ As the waves crash high,
Former Guardian of Osiris

and the shoreline disappears,
I will scream to the sky...
This nation's views do not necessarily reflect the views of the player.

"Hey, people live here!".~

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Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar
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Founded: Mar 17, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:16 am

Kuriko wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:If the author writes a good resolution (like his present GA draft), we should get behind it. This blacklisting of authors is at best immature. People can change.

Pppphhhhtttttttt.... Jocospor? Change? HAHAHAHAHA. He changes the least. Just look at all his forum posts and the fact his region is still trying to commend itself. No, Jocospor and through extension CCD won't change.

People can change Kuri! I was a pretty despicable fellow at the turn of 2018, but the situations thrust upon me in the last couple months have really changed me. But then again, as an adolescent, I still have a lot of situations to go through. Who knows what lies ahead of me on my path? The same applies for Joscopor - more could lie ahead on his path that could change him, or maybe, the situations that will are being thrust upon him as I type.
Last edited by Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar on Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
This signature is under construction.
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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Anarchy

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:15 am

OOC: I entirely believe that this repeal attempt is motivated by revenge for perceived slights, as well as a wider attempt at badge hunting. Against.
Last edited by The New California Republic on Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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Blood Wine
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Founded: Jan 12, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Blood Wine » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:09 pm

Did you really have to send 3 TGs for this? urgh
Formerly known as Port Blood
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Elke and Elba wrote:Well Mall, you want Haven? I'd want your Joint Systems Alliance badge, then.
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The New California Republic
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Anarchy

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:13 pm

Blood Wine wrote:Did you really have to send 3 TGs for this? urgh

OOC: I block campaign telegrams. :lol:
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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Blood Wine
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Founded: Jan 12, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Blood Wine » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:44 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Blood Wine wrote:Did you really have to send 3 TGs for this? urgh

OOC: I block campaign telegrams. :lol:


Me too, region mate got them
Formerly known as Port Blood
Current foreign Minister of gay
Elke and Elba wrote:Well Mall, you want Haven? I'd want your Joint Systems Alliance badge, then.
Discoveria wrote:Port blood is a raider through and through. Honest.
Tim-Opolis wrote:The Salt Mines will be fueled for months by the tears of silly fascists.

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Jocospor
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Founded: Nov 24, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jocospor » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:40 pm

Blood Wine wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:OOC: I block campaign telegrams. :lol:


Me too, region mate got them

OOC: I'm not really sure what's wrong with sending the three telegrams I did. I'm completely within the parameters of the game to do so. It's not "spam" - by your definition perhaps, but not the game's. And that anyone could call three telegrams spam really does frustrate me. Maybe your region mate (who I'll assume is the Delegate of Gay, otherwise he wouldn't have received a single telegram from me) gets a lot of telegrams each day. Tough. A perks of being the delegate of a large region. What about the delegates and nations of the smaller regions, the regions which predominantly make up the game? For them, heated WA discussions can sometimes be an event that they embrace, and they like receiving telegrams.

I'd rather incline myself to offering these regions something to do rather than worry about whether I'm pissing off some big delegate. And, as you've already said, completely defeating the point of your whining, block my telegrams if you don't want them. Easy. As. That.

Please, let's keep this thread on the discussion of the proposal itself. Jakker and Wrapper, have you had a chance to look over it since I've fixed it up?
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
CONFEDERATION OF CORRUPT DICTATORS | OFFICE OF THE VICEROY | DELEGATE'S OFFICE
JOCOSPOR | FOREIGN AFFAIRS OFFICE


"Destroy democracy. End degeneracy. Love your Emperor. Thou shalt know no fear."
- Farland Macmillan, Grand High Direktor of the Empire, addressing the 3rd Imperial Cabinet

(All posts IC unless marked otherwise)

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Kaboomlandia
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Founded: May 22, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kaboomlandia » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:01 pm

Jocospor wrote:
Blood Wine wrote:
Me too, region mate got them

OOC: I'm not really sure what's wrong with sending the three telegrams I did. I'm completely within the parameters of the game to do so. It's not "spam" - by your definition perhaps, but not the game's. And that anyone could call three telegrams spam really does frustrate me. Maybe your region mate (who I'll assume is the Delegate of Gay, otherwise he wouldn't have received a single telegram from me) gets a lot of telegrams each day. Tough. A perks of being the delegate of a large region. What about the delegates and nations of the smaller regions, the regions which predominantly make up the game? For them, heated WA discussions can sometimes be an event that they embrace, and they like receiving telegrams.

I'd rather incline myself to offering these regions something to do rather than worry about whether I'm pissing off some big delegate. And, as you've already said, completely defeating the point of your whining, block my telegrams if you don't want them. Easy. As. That.

Please, let's keep this thread on the discussion of the proposal itself. Jakker and Wrapper, have you had a chance to look over it since I've fixed it up?

IIRC the rule is that you get to send out one approval campaign TG and one voting campaign TG, not three. I'll wait for a mod to confirm or deny though.
Last edited by Kaboomlandia on Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In=character, Kaboomlandia is a World Assembly member and abides by its resolutions. If this nation isn't in the WA, it's for practical reasons.
Author of GA #371 and SC #208, #214, #226, #227, #230, #232
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"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
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Jocospor
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Founded: Nov 24, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jocospor » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:26 pm

Kaboomlandia wrote:
Jocospor wrote:OOC: I'm not really sure what's wrong with sending the three telegrams I did. I'm completely within the parameters of the game to do so. It's not "spam" - by your definition perhaps, but not the game's. And that anyone could call three telegrams spam really does frustrate me. Maybe your region mate (who I'll assume is the Delegate of Gay, otherwise he wouldn't have received a single telegram from me) gets a lot of telegrams each day. Tough. A perks of being the delegate of a large region. What about the delegates and nations of the smaller regions, the regions which predominantly make up the game? For them, heated WA discussions can sometimes be an event that they embrace, and they like receiving telegrams.

I'd rather incline myself to offering these regions something to do rather than worry about whether I'm pissing off some big delegate. And, as you've already said, completely defeating the point of your whining, block my telegrams if you don't want them. Easy. As. That.

Please, let's keep this thread on the discussion of the proposal itself. Jakker and Wrapper, have you had a chance to look over it since I've fixed it up?

IIRC the rule is that you get to send out one approval campaign TG and one voting campaign TG, not three. I'll wait for a mod to confirm or deny though.

OOC: You're more than welcome to wait, but I can set you straight right now if you like. I set one approval telegram per proposal. That would have been two, since the proposal had to be submitted twice. Then I would have sent two other telegrams to delegates (so there you go, I sent four in total, wowie someone shoot me) offering them explanation as to why I took down the proposal, and assuring them that it would return when it was legal.

I've had enough conversations with the mods to know about telegrams, trust me. But thanks for your concern, nonetheless.
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
CONFEDERATION OF CORRUPT DICTATORS | OFFICE OF THE VICEROY | DELEGATE'S OFFICE
JOCOSPOR | FOREIGN AFFAIRS OFFICE


"Destroy democracy. End degeneracy. Love your Emperor. Thou shalt know no fear."
- Farland Macmillan, Grand High Direktor of the Empire, addressing the 3rd Imperial Cabinet

(All posts IC unless marked otherwise)

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Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar
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Founded: Mar 17, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:41 pm

Our WA Delegate often mentions getting multiple to endorse a certain proposal, which he usually gleefully ignores.
This signature is under construction.
To Contact the Nagathar Delegate to the General Assembly Contact: Dhanvantari.Krishnan.CGAC@outlook.com
Personal Political Alignment: Congress Party (Sonia Gandhi was leader of Cong. Party for reference)
OOC Stuff:
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- My RL Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCXzH27eOIA (Starting 1:48 at least)
- 1 Time Failed GA Author

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Jocospor
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Founded: Nov 24, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jocospor » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:04 pm

Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar wrote:Our WA Delegate often mentions getting multiple to endorse a certain proposal, which he usually gleefully ignores.

OOC: No harm in that.
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
CONFEDERATION OF CORRUPT DICTATORS | OFFICE OF THE VICEROY | DELEGATE'S OFFICE
JOCOSPOR | FOREIGN AFFAIRS OFFICE


"Destroy democracy. End degeneracy. Love your Emperor. Thou shalt know no fear."
- Farland Macmillan, Grand High Direktor of the Empire, addressing the 3rd Imperial Cabinet

(All posts IC unless marked otherwise)

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Neo-Routhengard
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Founded: Mar 28, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Neo-Routhengard » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:37 pm

Not really liked the submitter, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend, so voting FOR should it come to a vote.
Last edited by Neo-Routhengard on Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michel Nicole Demetrius, 15, also known as King Michel II Nicole of Neo-Routhengard (regnant for 4 years), also the Neo-Routhengardian delegate to the World Assembly. The only known offspring of an Edel Raid and a human.

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The New California Republic
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Posts: 10898
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Anarchy

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:32 am

Jocospor wrote:
Blood Wine wrote:
Me too, region mate got them

OOC: I'm not really sure what's wrong with sending the three telegrams I did. I'm completely within the parameters of the game to do so. It's not "spam" - by your definition perhaps, but not the game's. And that anyone could call three telegrams spam really does frustrate me. Maybe your region mate (who I'll assume is the Delegate of Gay, otherwise he wouldn't have received a single telegram from me) gets a lot of telegrams each day. Tough. A perks of being the delegate of a large region. What about the delegates and nations of the smaller regions, the regions which predominantly make up the game? For them, heated WA discussions can sometimes be an event that they embrace, and they like receiving telegrams.

I'd rather incline myself to offering these regions something to do rather than worry about whether I'm pissing off some big delegate. And, as you've already said, completely defeating the point of your whining, block my telegrams if you don't want them. Easy. As. That.

OOC: It should tell you something when you and your region are getting notorious for telegram bombardment. ;)
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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Frisbeeteria
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 23099
Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:17 am

Jocospor wrote:I'm completely within the parameters of the game to do so. It's not "spam" - by your definition perhaps, but not the game's.

I've had enough conversations with the mods to know about telegrams, trust me.

Jocospor is correct that the recent pile of telegrams are not technically illegal under the rules. That's not to say that they're not spam, just not actionable spam. There is always someone looking for a way to abuse any exploit in the rules. Jocospor has been fairly successful at telegram rule abuse. IMO, that's a strange thing to be proud about.

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Sciongrad
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Founded: Mar 11, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sciongrad » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:20 pm

Yokiria wrote:I hope my input proves helpful in your future proposals. It is always a treat reading your proposals, no matter the intent, because of your literary prowess.

Ahhh, I, too, am made speechless by Jocospor's way with words sometimes.
Last edited by Sciongrad on Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Drop Your Pants
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Posts: 3387
Founded: Apr 17, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Drop Your Pants » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:08 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:Jocospor is correct that the recent pile of telegrams are not technically illegal under the rules. That's not to say that they're not spam, just not actionable spam. There is always someone looking for a way to abuse any exploit in the rules. Jocospor has been fairly successful at telegram rule abuse. IMO, that's a strange thing to be proud about.

Fix the loopholes then :P
Happily oblivious to NS Drama

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Jocospor
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Posts: 409
Founded: Nov 24, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jocospor » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:06 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Jocospor wrote:I'm completely within the parameters of the game to do so. It's not "spam" - by your definition perhaps, but not the game's.

I've had enough conversations with the mods to know about telegrams, trust me.

Jocospor is correct that the recent pile of telegrams are not technically illegal under the rules. That's not to say that they're not spam, just not actionable spam. There is always someone looking for a way to abuse any exploit in the rules. Jocospor has been fairly successful at telegram rule abuse. IMO, that's a strange thing to be proud about.

OOC: Fris, you can mark SC proposals legal/illegal, can't you? Does this all look legal to you?
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
CONFEDERATION OF CORRUPT DICTATORS | OFFICE OF THE VICEROY | DELEGATE'S OFFICE
JOCOSPOR | FOREIGN AFFAIRS OFFICE


"Destroy democracy. End degeneracy. Love your Emperor. Thou shalt know no fear."
- Farland Macmillan, Grand High Direktor of the Empire, addressing the 3rd Imperial Cabinet

(All posts IC unless marked otherwise)

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Wrapper
Senior Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 5632
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wrapper » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:37 pm

It looks like you’ve made some other changes, ones that violate rule 4(d). A proposal has to be written by the point of view of the WA/SC. The WA/SC isn’t going to warn nor urge itself to do anything.

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Jocospor
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Posts: 409
Founded: Nov 24, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jocospor » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:52 pm

Wrapper wrote:It looks like you’ve made some other changes, ones that violate rule 4(d). A proposal has to be written by the point of view of the WA/SC. The WA/SC isn’t going to warn nor urge itself to do anything.

OOC: I can take that out now, but I have to say that it's simply hilarious that this is coming up now. That clause has always been there and in my initial post of this thread I asked if it was legal. It's not in the OG post now since I was led to believe that it was because no one said anything, but a later post I made to Caracasus confirms it was:

Jocospor wrote:
Caracasus wrote:Lol no.

Is that utterance regarding the legality of the second last clause?


And again, this is something that has never been pinged before in any of the other assessments of the proposal's legality. Honestly, I'm pretty astounded.

Thanks for looking at it though, Wrapper, I really appreciate it. Is there anything else that isn't legal?
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
CONFEDERATION OF CORRUPT DICTATORS | OFFICE OF THE VICEROY | DELEGATE'S OFFICE
JOCOSPOR | FOREIGN AFFAIRS OFFICE


"Destroy democracy. End degeneracy. Love your Emperor. Thou shalt know no fear."
- Farland Macmillan, Grand High Direktor of the Empire, addressing the 3rd Imperial Cabinet

(All posts IC unless marked otherwise)

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Blue Lives Matter More
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 12
Founded: Dec 19, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Blue Lives Matter More » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:53 pm

Full support if it's legal.
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~"Because The Most Oppressed Peoples of The 20th Century Are The Ones With A Badge."~
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Wrapper
Senior Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 5632
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wrapper » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:59 pm

You still have the SC warning/reminding itself of things in previous clauses.

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Jocospor
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Posts: 409
Founded: Nov 24, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jocospor » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:19 pm

Wrapper wrote:You still have the SC warning/reminding itself of things in previous clauses.

OOC: Yep, I see. Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't realise that those were also in question. That should all be better now. Anything else illegal?
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
CONFEDERATION OF CORRUPT DICTATORS | OFFICE OF THE VICEROY | DELEGATE'S OFFICE
JOCOSPOR | FOREIGN AFFAIRS OFFICE


"Destroy democracy. End degeneracy. Love your Emperor. Thou shalt know no fear."
- Farland Macmillan, Grand High Direktor of the Empire, addressing the 3rd Imperial Cabinet

(All posts IC unless marked otherwise)

User avatar
Jocospor
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 409
Founded: Nov 24, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jocospor » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:41 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Jocospor wrote:I'm completely within the parameters of the game to do so. It's not "spam" - by your definition perhaps, but not the game's.

I've had enough conversations with the mods to know about telegrams, trust me.

Jocospor is correct that the recent pile of telegrams are not technically illegal under the rules. That's not to say that they're not spam, just not actionable spam. There is always someone looking for a way to abuse any exploit in the rules. Jocospor has been fairly successful at telegram rule abuse. IMO, that's a strange thing to be proud about.

OOC: I'll just quickly respond to this too, actually. It's spam in your opinion. The only factual definition of spam as far as NationStates is concerned is what's written in the rules. I'm completely within my rights to play the game as I want, and for the times that I have made mistakes I've been corrected. I don't think it's necessarily fair to chip me when I haven't broken any rules.

And besides, Max Barry gets heaps of lunch money from the Confederation's generous donations. :hug:
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
CONFEDERATION OF CORRUPT DICTATORS | OFFICE OF THE VICEROY | DELEGATE'S OFFICE
JOCOSPOR | FOREIGN AFFAIRS OFFICE


"Destroy democracy. End degeneracy. Love your Emperor. Thou shalt know no fear."
- Farland Macmillan, Grand High Direktor of the Empire, addressing the 3rd Imperial Cabinet

(All posts IC unless marked otherwise)

User avatar
Yokiria
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 188
Founded: Jan 24, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Yokiria » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:23 pm

Jocospor wrote:
Frisbeeteria wrote:Jocospor is correct that the recent pile of telegrams are not technically illegal under the rules. That's not to say that they're not spam, just not actionable spam. There is always someone looking for a way to abuse any exploit in the rules. Jocospor has been fairly successful at telegram rule abuse. IMO, that's a strange thing to be proud about.

OOC: I'll just quickly respond to this too, actually. It's spam in your opinion. The only factual definition of spam as far as NationStates is concerned is what's written in the rules.


Historically, "that's just your opinion" is a poor response to NS moderators.
~ As the waves crash high,
Former Guardian of Osiris

and the shoreline disappears,
I will scream to the sky...
This nation's views do not necessarily reflect the views of the player.

"Hey, people live here!".~

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