[DRAFT] Repeal "Commend Xoriet"

[Tinhampton]

Full support, he is just WA corruption

Xoriet is a lady. (Also, against on the grounds of dodgy scaremongering.)

[Armaros]

Against. She's with the NPO atm, but she hasn't done anything yet. At least wait to see what she does in it.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Against. She's with the NPO atm, but she hasn't done anything yet. At least wait to see what she does in it.

I remember when we all waited to see what NPO leaders would do last time they swore they had changed. You're looking at what they did, right now.

[Malphe]

Against. She's with the NPO atm, but she hasn't done anything yet. At least wait to see what she does in it.

I remember when we all waited to see what NPO leaders would do last time they swore they had changed. You're looking at what they did, right now.

If it's inevitable then let's just wait until she does something dumb and repeal it then. Better base for a repeal than "she's an NPO senator and defended the NPO a few times".

[Visionary Union]

Aye. Anyone who defends the actions of the NPO should have their commendations stripped from them. Their government is a disruptive force in NS and greatly harmed many innocent regions.

[Unibot III]

The one thing that I will say about this repeal is that the original commendation commended Xoriet for things she's clearly disavowing now. Defender military accomplishments? The revival of LWU? Negotiating treaties with UCRs? Improving the international prestige and reception of her home regions? None of this jives with her present spokespersonship with the NPO. The NPO dismisses the work of defenders as a parasitic, userite infiltration - a drain on the resources of feeders and sinkers; it rejects the international reception as userite and advocates instead, isolationism and exceptionalism.

I'll abstain from voting on any such repeal, but I think it's worth pointing out that regardless of whether a repeal does happens, Xoriet has already parted with the commendation and legacy it documents.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I remember when we all waited to see what NPO leaders would do last time they swore they had changed. You're looking at what they did, right now.

If it's inevitable then let's just wait until she does something dumb and repeal it then. Better base for a repeal than "she's an NPO senator and defended the NPO a few times".

I would personally rather not wait for the NPO's next attack on Lazarus and Osiris, the GCRs I'm in, before doing something.

The next time might be the time they coup and are successful.

[Malphe]

If it's inevitable then let's just wait until she does something dumb and repeal it then. Better base for a repeal than "she's an NPO senator and defended the NPO a few times".

I would personally rather not wait for the NPO's next attack on Lazarus and Osiris, the regions I'm in, before doing something.

The next time might be the time they coup and are successful.

And I suppose this is meant to stop that?

[Cormactopia Prime]

I would personally rather not wait for the NPO's next attack on Lazarus and Osiris, the regions I'm in, before doing something.

The next time might be the time they coup and are successful.

And I suppose this is meant to stop that?

It's meant to stop them from regaining diplomatic credibility, which is their pathway back into everyone's good graces, yes.

[Malphe]

And I suppose this is meant to stop that?

It's meant to stop them from regaining diplomatic credibility, which is their pathway back into everyone's good graces, yes.

That's understandable, trying to discourage people from associating with the NPO by stripping them from of their badges if they do. Still can't agree with it but I can see where you're coming from.

[Lord Dominator]

It's meant to stop them from regaining diplomatic credibility, which is their pathway back into everyone's good graces, yes.

That's understandable, trying to discourage people from associating with the NPO by stripping them from of their badges if they do. Still can't agree with it but I can see where you're coming from.

I do believe there's also meant to be an element of not giving people fancy badges to point to for credibility (citation: EW's signature)

[Escade]

The problem with extremism is that it makes the moderates squirm and move as far away from it as possible.

The NPO's IC actions were taken by specific players in the NPO and the particular player commended, Xoriet, has disavowed those tactics (notwithstanding the hypocrisy of players going on and on about subversion in one case while ignoring it in others). At least be consistent. For example, I generally dislike the culture of spying in any case because it often seems to have the purpose of "gotcha" among other unsavory methods and goals. Others of course think of it as a valid strategem in this game.

If the goal is to prove that the NPO is right about a frantic, frothing at the mouth kind of knee-jerk reaction then this does play well into that narrative.

Personally, I will hold onto hope that change is possible and that this particular player, Xoriet, is one that can bring about change in the NPO. Hopefully we see more internal changes there soon.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

the particular player commended, Xoriet, has disavowed those tactics

Actually, she's either excused quite a few or denied they happened.

[Escade]

I find this attempt to repeal this commendation abhorrent.

[Xoriet]

My only comment on this is that the author of this has been banned from several Discords for OOC misbehavior, including ours. The Commendation itself is unimportant. However, if you seriously plan to repeal it, I recommend getting a new author. Repealing this by accepting the help of someone with a dirty record in this manner is just endorsing OOC bad behavior on your side. We already acknowledged that some on our side made that mistake. Don’t do the same thing just to retaliate. There should be no more endorsing of OOC bad behaviors either implicitly or indirectly from anyone in this community. If we all fail to set the example, we’ve all failed here.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I'm still not fully aware of the author's history (which is not an invitation for anyone to talk about it here, where it doesn't belong), but I'm aware of enough to say I don't support this proposal. I support repeal of Commend Xoriet in principle, but not by this author, given the unfortunate circumstances.

I'm sure another draft by someone else will be forthcoming soon, so there's no reason for anyone to feel they must support this one.

I will counter-campaign to prevent this proposal from reaching quorum, should the author submit it, so I would recommend not bothering.

[Malphe]

Since it's been mentioned, if you really want to inquire about the author's questionable OOC activity that Xor and Corm have cited then do so off site. That discussion doesn't belong on NS, either on these forums or in telegrams.

[The Seeker of Power]

And I suppose this is meant to stop that?

It's meant to stop them from regaining diplomatic credibility, which is their pathway back into everyone's good graces, yes.

Does anyone REALLY thinks an SC badge implies some level of credibility?

Real question ^

[Lord Dominator]

It's meant to stop them from regaining diplomatic credibility, which is their pathway back into everyone's good graces, yes.

Does anyone REALLY thinks an SC badge implies some level of credibility?

Real question ^

EW seems to, and I know TBH at minimum happily uses their's in recruiting.

[Cormactopia Prime]

It's meant to stop them from regaining diplomatic credibility, which is their pathway back into everyone's good graces, yes.

Does anyone REALLY thinks an SC badge implies some level of credibility?

Real question ^

At the very least, a lot of new players and even non-gameplayers who have been around for a while, but only answer issues, etc., probably do. I think it probably has at least some effect even on some gameplayers, because we are, after all, the ones who pass or defeat these resolutions. When we keep a Commendation on the books instead of repealing it, that's sending a signal that the person is still deemed reputable to most of gameplay.

Note, I'm using "reputable" here in the IC sense, not OOC. IC disreputable players can still be OOC reputable.

[Sea Lion]

Badges are nice and all, and they're easy to get when you piggyback onto widespread interregional outrage. I would know. I got my second this way.

The things you've described in your proposal, however, hardly negate the reasons Xoriet was commended in the first place. You should be writing a condemnation instead. Except nobody believes that whatever she's done is condemnation worthy, so you're a bit out of luck in your foray into the Security Council.

[Guy]

This is stupid.

Xoriet’s commendation came in spite - or, perhaps, because - of her overall contributions to Gameplay, including things that are not per se “IC commendable”. Yes, she has defended; but she’s done more invading than defending. It’s her overall contributions to military gameplay, as an accomplished general, that is being commended. Saying “no, you can invade all you like, but now that you’re a part of a group that has destabilised and spied against GCRs you are not commendable” is just plain stupid.

We can have a long conversation about whether playing the villain is commendable or condemnable; and whether people who invade / destabilise regions are contributing or hindering the game. But Xoriet’s capacity to playing “the bad guy/gal” was well known at the time the commendation was passed, and so there is no basis for repealing it now.

Even if you see NPO membership as somehow a far worse act IC than being a prominent invader, I don’t think that membership in the NPO can reasonably be used to justify a complete repeal of this commendation, when the original basis for the commendation - the player’s contribution and skill - still stands.

And this completely ignores the compelling reasons to commend Xoriet that are to do with user safety.

[Draganisia]

Does anyone REALLY thinks an SC badge implies some level of credibility?

Real question ^

EW seems to, and I know TBH at minimum happily uses their's in recruiting.

While I still hate you black hawks until you stop your anti-NPO stuff a part of me actually does admire you for this.

Sometimes its better just to embrace certain things instead of going against it. Especially when it makes no real difference in the end.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Even if you see NPO membership as somehow a far worse act IC than being a prominent invader, I don’t think that membership in the NPO can reasonably be used to justify a complete repeal of this commendation, when the original basis for the commendation - the player’s contribution and skill - still stands.

And yet, there is precedent for this. The difference is AMOM wasn't as sociable. Xoriet's OOC popularity is what's factoring into the opposition to repealing her Commendation, a factor that didn't prevent repeal of AMOM's Commendation. So it's really time for all the people who have insisted they don't like gameplay turning into a social network and want political gameplay back to put their money where their mouths are, and treat Xoriet's Commendation just like AMOM's was treated, rather than putting her on some higher pedestal because she has a higher OOC social status. She's the enemy, same as AMOM.

And this completely ignores the compelling reasons to commend Xoriet that are to do with user safety.

That shouldn't factor in. This is an IC Commendation in an IC institution and repeal is being pursued for IC reasons. Stop trying to make this OOC.

[Draganisia]

Y

That shouldn't factor in. This is an IC Commendation in an IC institution and repeal is being pursued for IC reasons. Stop trying to make this OOC.

It is up to all of the voters of the WA to decide all of that.

And according to how many voted for it that would mean 14 thousand or 86.7% of voters disagree with you