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[PASSED] Commend Bachtendekuppen

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

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Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar
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Posts: 291
Founded: Mar 17, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:56 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:I'll start by saying this is a very well written proposal, so props to the author for that.

Nothing against the author or his writing in the rest of what I'm about to say, which is that I'll be voting against this proposal for the following reasons:

1. While Bachtendekuppen's record may be impressive within The East Pacific, and while I do believe someone can earn a Commendation with activity in just one region, I also believe a person's accomplishments must be truly remarkable. I don't see anything truly remarkable in Bachtendekuppen's record. I don't see anything other Delegates haven't done, and yet many of those Delegates will never be commended -- and probably shouldn't be.

2. I don't see anything at all commendable about Bachtendekuppen negotiating a treaty between TEP and the New Pacific Order, speaking of which...

3. TEP has chosen to continue its treaty alliance with the NPO, and as Delegate of a region that is at war with the NPO, I'm not in the mood to do TEP or its citizens any favors. Other Delegates in other regions at war with the NPO may choose differently, and if so, that's their prerogative. But on behalf of Pacifica, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that TEP's choice to stick with the NPO should have consequences, and one of them should be that the automatic goodwill of the people they are siding against by continuing an alliance with the NPO is no longer guaranteed.

I heavily concur with several of these points.

I believe an interregional body like the WA shouldn't Commend unless the acts of the Commendee are interregional as well. TEP has been Commending its people for internal work for a little while, and I haven't been so on board with all of that. It is the same concept as CDD trying to Commend itself, except with a GCR.
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United States of Americanas
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Posts: 117
Founded: Jan 23, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby United States of Americanas » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:07 pm

Dreshand wrote:
Eutrovia wrote:How do you pronounce Bachtendekuppen?

Simple, you dont

Simple phonetics Bach-tende-cuppen. Albeit I have not interacted with said nation I will direct our minister of foreign affairs to vote in support of this commendation. The country is very well run.
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Milozoldyck
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Posts: 107
Founded: Nov 03, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Milozoldyck » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:05 pm

For
96 5%

Against
1,828 95.0%

I am (genuinely) utterly stunned by this. 95% disapproval with 2,000 votes in the bank would make you think this was "COMMEND NAZI EUROPE" or something.
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The Hellsing Empire
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Jan 31, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby The Hellsing Empire » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:13 pm

Milozoldyck wrote:
For
96 5%

Against
1,828 95.0%

I am (genuinely) utterly stunned by this. 95% disapproval with 2,000 votes in the bank would make you think this was "COMMEND NAZI EUROPE" or something.


Well with the current political view of the Pacific regions, I would understand why many nations would vote against the proposal. The Hellsing Empire is currently deligating on our vote. Though this nominated nation has done a lot of good in the region, we can't help feel sorta bias against the notion due to the current politicaly atmosphere of that region. Though that would be unfair for the nation in question, it is sadly how the world works in many cases.
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Frisbeeteria
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 23244
Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:16 pm

Milozoldyck wrote:95% disapproval

Based on the number of players voting, the actual ratio is closer to 65 / 35. The numbers are skewed because of the 1100+ votes from the TNP delegate and a couple of other large regions.

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Escade
Diplomat
 
Posts: 894
Founded: Apr 11, 2013
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Escade » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:03 am

Unfortunately, this seems more of a reaction to other things than to the player who I think deserves a commendation.

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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2038
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:14 am

Escade wrote:Unfortunately, this seems more of a reaction to other things than to the player who I think deserves a commendation.

Partially, but not entirely the case. This proposal seeks to commend Bachtendekuppen for doing very basic things like negotiating treaties, contributing to domestic regional programs, etc., that almost every former head of government and many ordinary citizens of both GCRs and UCRs have done. We don't commend everyone for doing basic regional work. I don't think this proposal would even be under serious consideration if Bachtendekuppen had done these things in a user-created region instead of doing them in a Feeder. This is very basic stuff for the most part.

That's not to say Bachtendekuppen hasn't contributed a lot to TEP. But a lot of other people have similarly contributed to their regions.

TEP's alliance with the NPO and its mention in this proposal certainly should factor in, but those issues aside, this commendation is still pretty weak.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cosmopolitan Borovan II
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Dec 05, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Cosmopolitan Borovan II » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:37 am

I AM VOTING AGAINST!!!
Cosmopolitan borovan wrote:Nations should be referred to as it or nation being named not he or his. In the WA you refer to nations not people

Oops, forgot that I helped the nation's proposal.

Well, in that case...

FOR!

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Bachtendekuppen
Attaché
 
Posts: 89
Founded: Sep 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bachtendekuppen » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:54 am

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Escade wrote:Unfortunately, this seems more of a reaction to other things than to the player who I think deserves a commendation.

Partially, but not entirely the case. This proposal seeks to commend Bachtendekuppen for doing very basic things like negotiating treaties, contributing to domestic regional programs, etc., that almost every former head of government and many ordinary citizens of both GCRs and UCRs have done. We don't commend everyone for doing basic regional work. I don't think this proposal would even be under serious consideration if Bachtendekuppen had done these things in a user-created region instead of doing them in a Feeder. This is very basic stuff for the most part.

That's not to say Bachtendekuppen hasn't contributed a lot to TEP. But a lot of other people have similarly contributed to their regions.

TEP's alliance with the NPO and its mention in this proposal certainly should factor in, but those issues aside, this commendation is still pretty weak.

While I did not ask for it, I appreciate the effort and gesture of the people behind this proposal. Some people feel I earned such a proposal, and I'm pretty sure some people don't. That being said, I'm surprised you even take out the time to actively fight a proposed commendation for me. In any case, I'm perfectly happy letting everyone, Delegate and/or Nation alike, vote their conscience on my (proposed) commendation. Go crazy folks.
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The East Pacific

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Ragnaria
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ragnaria » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:58 am

Tell you what, The East Pacific can vote a commendation unto this nation.

Seeing as this nation in question hasn't really done anything for the rest of us, we wont. :)

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The Notorious Mad Jack
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 131
Founded: Nov 05, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:08 am

Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar wrote:I heavily concur with several of these points.

I believe an interregional body like the WA shouldn't Commend unless the acts of the Commendee are interregional as well. TEP has been Commending its people for internal work for a little while, and I haven't been so on board with all of that. It is the same concept as CDD trying to Commend itself, except with a GCR.

This idea is laughable to be honest. The SC has been commending single region or single area nations for the entirety of its existence:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Kandarin - delegate of TRR.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Starybladia - does Sports RP
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Fudgetopia - TSP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Warzone Codger - was delegate of a warzone
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend A Slanted Black Stripe - TEP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Harmoneia - mainly Lazarus
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend 1 Infinite Loop - TEP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend McMasterdonia - mainly TNP
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Improving Wordiness - 10,000 Islands mainly
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Flemingovia - TNP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Hell - exists and is founderless
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Tsunamy - TSP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Wintony - Illumati only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Solorni - mainly Balder
Totally not MadJack, though I hear he's incredibly smart and handsome.

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Todd McCloud
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Posts: 4016
Founded: Oct 11, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Todd McCloud » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:51 am

Wow, with how quickly and strongly against this vote is going, you'd expect Bach to have just committed some kind of atrocity against the GP community. I'm actually kind of stunned.

As Madjack pointed out, this is certainly not the first time a nation is being commended for service in one region. If it is impactful in a positive way, why not vote for it?
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The Tri State Area and Maine
Envoy
 
Posts: 215
Founded: Feb 02, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Tri State Area and Maine » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:25 am

Escade wrote:Unfortunately, this seems more of a reaction to other things than to the player who I think deserves a commendation.

I don't see how that's unfortunate. That's just politics.
Todd McCloud wrote:Wow, with how quickly and strongly against this vote is going, you'd expect Bach to have just committed some kind of atrocity against the GP community. I'm actually kind of stunned.

As Madjack pointed out, this is certainly not the first time a nation is being commended for service in one region. If it is impactful in a positive way, why not vote for it?

As Cormac said, the only reason he's being commended is because his actions were in a GCR.

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Lord Dominator
Senator
 
Posts: 3877
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:20 pm

Todd McCloud wrote:As Madjack pointed out, this is certainly not the first time a nation is being commended for service in one region. If it is impactful in a positive way, why not vote for it?

Because it's poorly written and doesn't explain why he deserves it, rather than listing a spate of positions without (largely) explaining why them having said positions matters?
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Luna Suena
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Sep 08, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luna Suena » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:48 pm

Commendations just always pass don't they? I bet most people don't even read the text.

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Cosmopolitan Borovan II
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Dec 05, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Cosmopolitan Borovan II » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:50 pm

Luna Suena wrote:Commendations just always pass don't they? I bet most people don't even read the text.

Most try to read it but they don't know who the nominee is or the text is just too difficult to comprehend.

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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2038
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:50 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:
Todd McCloud wrote:As Madjack pointed out, this is certainly not the first time a nation is being commended for service in one region. If it is impactful in a positive way, why not vote for it?

Because it's poorly written and doesn't explain why he deserves it, rather than listing a spate of positions without (largely) explaining why them having said positions matters?

Who cares about any of that? He was a Feeder Delegate, that's the only relevant detail. It won't be long before "RECOGNIZING that [Insert Nation Here] was a Delegate of a Feeder region" is the only line in commendations. Because apparently that's all it takes to pass them these days.
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Cosmopolitan Borovan II
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Dec 05, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Cosmopolitan Borovan II » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:08 pm

Todd McCloud wrote:Wow, with how quickly and strongly against this vote is going, you'd expect Bach to have just committed some kind of atrocity against the GP community. I'm actually kind of stunned.

As Madjack pointed out, this is certainly not the first time a nation is being commended for service in one region. If it is impactful in a positive way, why not vote for it?
Milozoldyck wrote:
For
96 5%

Against
1,828 95.0%

I am (genuinely) utterly stunned by this. 95% disapproval with 2,000 votes in the bank would make you think this was "COMMEND NAZI EUROPE" or something.

The vote is now in the majority of for after the north pacific changed their vote after a swing tnp citizens saying for. And Im surprised that jocospor voted for.

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Escade
Diplomat
 
Posts: 894
Founded: Apr 11, 2013
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Escade » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:35 pm

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:
Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar wrote:I heavily concur with several of these points.

I believe an interregional body like the WA shouldn't Commend unless the acts of the Commendee are interregional as well. TEP has been Commending its people for internal work for a little while, and I haven't been so on board with all of that. It is the same concept as CDD trying to Commend itself, except with a GCR.

This idea is laughable to be honest. The SC has been commending single region or single area nations for the entirety of its existence:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Kandarin - delegate of TRR.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Starybladia - does Sports RP
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Fudgetopia - TSP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Warzone Codger - was delegate of a warzone
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend A Slanted Black Stripe - TEP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Harmoneia - mainly Lazarus
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend 1 Infinite Loop - TEP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend McMasterdonia - mainly TNP
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Improving Wordiness - 10,000 Islands mainly
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Flemingovia - TNP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Hell - exists and is founderless
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Tsunamy - TSP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Wintony - Illumati only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Solorni - mainly Balder


I'm grateful that MadJack did what I was too lazy to do and point out the irony....

Is there going to be a campaign to repeal the above commendations? Or...?

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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2038
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:50 pm

Escade wrote:I'm grateful that MadJack did what I was too lazy to do and point out the irony....

Is there going to be a campaign to repeal the above commendations? Or...?

Not from me, at least. I don't waste my time on clearly lost causes. That's why I won't be campaigning to repeal Commend Bachtendekuppen either.
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Lord Dominator
Senator
 
Posts: 3877
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:51 pm

Escade wrote:
The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:This idea is laughable to be honest. The SC has been commending single region or single area nations for the entirety of its existence:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Kandarin - delegate of TRR.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Starybladia - does Sports RP
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Fudgetopia - TSP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Warzone Codger - was delegate of a warzone
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend A Slanted Black Stripe - TEP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Harmoneia - mainly Lazarus
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend 1 Infinite Loop - TEP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend McMasterdonia - mainly TNP
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Improving Wordiness - 10,000 Islands mainly
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Flemingovia - TNP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Hell - exists and is founderless
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Tsunamy - TSP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Wintony - Illumati only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Solorni - mainly Balder


I'm grateful that MadJack did what I was too lazy to do and point out the irony....

Is there going to be a campaign to repeal the above commendations? Or...?

If they were as poorly argued in the proposal as this one, I would probably (Kandy's excepted)
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Honeydewistania
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 173
Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Honeydewistania » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:51 pm

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:
Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar wrote:I heavily concur with several of these points.

I believe an interregional body like the WA shouldn't Commend unless the acts of the Commendee are interregional as well. TEP has been Commending its people for internal work for a little while, and I haven't been so on board with all of that. It is the same concept as CDD trying to Commend itself, except with a GCR.

This idea is laughable to be honest. The SC has been commending single region or single area nations for the entirety of its existence:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Kandarin - delegate of TRR.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Starybladia - does Sports RP
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Fudgetopia - TSP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Warzone Codger - was delegate of a warzone
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend A Slanted Black Stripe - TEP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Harmoneia - mainly Lazarus
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend 1 Infinite Loop - TEP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend McMasterdonia - mainly TNP
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Improving Wordiness - 10,000 Islands mainly
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Flemingovia - TNP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Hell - exists and is founderless
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Tsunamy - TSP only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Wintony - Illumati only
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=2 Commend Solorni - mainly Balder

Those resolutions actually commended them because they did something that many other nations couldn't do. Batchtendekuppen, however, he was just a couple of positions, and negotiated treaties with other regions. They aren't special.
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Union Hive
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: May 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Union Hive » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:03 pm

20 hours ago, ~1000 people switched from "against" to "for". It really brings me to think.

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Lord Dominator
Senator
 
Posts: 3877
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Lord Dominator » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:05 pm

Union Hive wrote:20 hours ago, ~1000 people switched from "against" to "for". It really brings me to think.

That would be TNP's delegate, ergo no more conspiracy than usual.
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Jocospor
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 488
Founded: Nov 24, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jocospor » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:11 pm

Luna Suena wrote:Commendations just always pass don't they? I bet most people don't even read the text.

Well...not always ;)
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