[DRAFT] Condemn United Massachusetts

[Aclion]

Actually thought this was a joke UM was in on before I read in detail. Clearly against and even more so given extra context.

I'm proud of you.

[Feux]

I'll vote aye if he wants this badge lol

[Caracasus]

Actually thought this was a joke UM was in on before I read in detail. Clearly against and even more so given extra context.

I'm proud of you.

UM only deserves a condemnation if it is a jokey one that they are well in on, like Chan Island's. I have got a lot of time for UM, even though I doubt we'd agree on a hell of a lot of stuff politically speaking. Apart from anything else, UM actually admitted during that recent weird liberation attempt that the region in question had a problem and seemed very genuine in their attempts to deal with it, rather than try to brush it under the rug.

[Grater Tovakia]

Looked at the title and I knew this was stupid, I do not agree with UM on everything but that is not condemn-worthy.


AGAINST

[United Massachusetts]

I'll vote aye if he wants this badge lol

I appreciate that, but I haven't done nearly enough to warrant recognition.

I'm proud of you.

UM only deserves a condemnation if it is a jokey one that they are well in on, like Chan Island's. I have got a lot of time for UM, even though I doubt we'd agree on a hell of a lot of stuff politically speaking. Apart from anything else, UM actually admitted during that recent weird liberation attempt that the region in question had a problem and seemed very genuine in their attempts to deal with it, rather than try to brush it under the rug.

Aw. Thanks.

[The Tri State Area and Maine]

The only thing I see in this proposal is that he has opinions on controversial topics and that he opposes Socialism.

Obviously against regardless, though.

[Kavagrad]

While I have my own problems with UM, there’s nothing to condemn in this. Opposed.

[Caracasus]

The only thing I see in this proposal is that he has opinions on controversial topics and that he opposes Socialism.

Obviously against regardless, though.

No reason to doubt UM here really, and they seem to think this is retaliation for kicking out some deeply unpleasent folks from a discord channel, making this even less worthy of support.

[United Massachusetts]

The only thing I see in this proposal is that he has opinions on controversial topics and that he opposes Socialism.

Obviously against regardless, though.

No reason to doubt UM here really, and they seem to think this is retaliation for kicking out some deeply unpleasent folks from a discord channel, making this even less worthy of support.

I can send you the DMs if you so desire.

[Malphe]

I'm getting jealous, where's my condemn? Isn't like y'all are exercising any standards for these as it is.

[Sijiao]

I have log evidence of said individual denying the legitimacy of the Israeli state, alleging a world conspiracy between Jews, Americans, and communists, and using "Jewish" in a phrase, where, given the context, it could only be construed as a slur.

He's anti-Semitic, even if he doesn't openly acknowledge as much.

In our judgement, at least. It was a conclusion reached based on the posts, their context, and other considerations. I don't take allegations like these lightly, but I think it's more likely than not that he holds some concerning anti-Semitic tendencies.

I will note that his friend who also left our server was a radical traditionalist "catholic" (read: heretic) who pulled out all the tricks, even the old "Jews killed Jesus" canard. Said person, who literally advocated the forcible conversion of Jews, also denied that they were anti-Semitic. So, I'm really not inclined to believe anything coming out of their camp.

He's Not Anti Semitic, You're just slandering him because he's different, And Check your facts before saying things like that. You people tend to believe fascism = Nazism. Well it's not! It actually is fascism =/= nazism.

I have log evidence of said individual denying the legitimacy of the Israeli state, alleging a world conspiracy between Jews, Americans, and communists, and using "Jewish" in a phrase, where, given the context, it could only be construed as a slur.

He's anti-Semitic, even if he doesn't openly acknowledge as much.

Where is this really? Are you simply fabricating this just to find a way to demonize anyone with a different viewpoint? I would like to see this "evidence", that these nations are what you claim to be.

[Kavagrad]

In our judgement, at least. It was a conclusion reached based on the posts, their context, and other considerations. I don't take allegations like these lightly, but I think it's more likely than not that he holds some concerning anti-Semitic tendencies.

I will note that his friend who also left our server was a radical traditionalist "catholic" (read: heretic) who pulled out all the tricks, even the old "Jews killed Jesus" canard. Said person, who literally advocated the forcible conversion of Jews, also denied that they were anti-Semitic. So, I'm really not inclined to believe anything coming out of their camp.

I have log evidence of said individual denying the legitimacy of the Israeli state, alleging a world conspiracy between Jews, Americans, and communists, and using "Jewish" in a phrase, where, given the context, it could only be construed as a slur.

He's anti-Semitic, even if he doesn't openly acknowledge as much.

Where is this really? Are you simply fabricating this just to find a way to demonize anyone with a different viewpoint? I would like to see this "evidence", that these nations are what you claim to be.

UM has already offered to send the proof to people in this thread. If you're interested in getting it, may I suggest that you TG him instead of making public and unfounded suggestions about his intentions before seeing the evidence at hand?

[United Massachusetts]

I've sent the OP my proof.

I will say that I don't take these allegations lightly, as some people once accused me of bring a Nazi collaborator b/c RtL has an embassy w/ KR, or whatever.

[Quebecshire]

RECOGNIZING that United Massachusetts (hereby referred to as UM) is a prominent member-nation of The East Pacific, with a presence in Right To Life by way of the puppet Massachusetts United,

Cool? I've worked with RTL in the past and while I disagree with some of their beliefs and previous methods, that's not exactly something concerning nor how you'd expect a condemnation to start. I've had seldom interactions with TEP other than briefly speaking to Yuno a few times but the same goes for them.

UNDERSTANDING that UM is seen by many as a promulgator of Catholic social teaching and the pro-life cause throughout numerous regions,

Aside from the fact that you're supposed to not mention IRL stuff in World Assembly matters, I don't see how that has anything to do with international peacekeeping and the rule of diplomacy and law - you know, the thing the WA is meant to do.

RECALLING that UM seeks to implement the abolition of the death penalty among all World Assembly-affiliated nations, consequently advocating for the usage of resources and tax revenues to sustain the continued existence of the worst and most vile offenders,

I moderately disagreed with him on the issue and so did my region's Parliamentary body, but that's no reason to condemn him. If it matters that much to you, leave the WA.

NOTING that UM opposes effective authoritarian government models and reflects this bias both in its campaigning activities for World Assembly resolutions and in its activities as a member of the inter-regional community, working against the interests of communist and fascist regions alike,

Sounds like you're grasping at straws to condemn a perfectly reasonable nation just because he doesn't play friendly with extremists.

DISTRESSED that UM, in spite of professing dedication to social welfare, fails to comprehend the enormous potentialities of a state-controlled economy,

Doesn't fascism usually include a state-controlled economy? Either way, not worth a condemn.

[Quebecshire]

Also, Hispanyo, I don't think you're some arbiter of impartiality and fairness towards individuals, given your past, the part I am specifically mentioning is that with the now defunct United Conservative Nations. Assuming that Greater New Hispanyoan Empire is you, which the regional connections very much point to it being you, and now you're here to attempt to condemn a WA civil servant for not sympathizing to your rather unsavoury views and actions.

"I believe the LCN is No better than the Chaotic Left."
(said on the account Greater New Hispanyoan Empire, the region it was posted on doesn't exist in that form but I have a screen snip)

Given the above quote from June-ish, I don't think you're one to complain about slander... especially when it comes to bad WA proposals...

[Caracasus]

I have seen enough of the evidence to confirm UM's account. To my mind this is a hack-job done out of revenge because UM booted someone who was being very antisemetic.

The region this proposal comes from on the other hand probably shouldn't be drawing too much attention to itself given the Sec Council's views on fascism.

[Cedoria]

Don't agree with UM on much, but there is no condemnable material here, and if what I've heard is true, it's revenge because UM kicked out some fairly unpleasant people on Discord, which as far as I'm concerned is commend material if anything.

Sorry, not voting for this.

[Consular]

He's Not Anti Semitic, You're just slandering him because he's different, And Check your facts before saying things like that. You people tend to believe fascism = Nazism. Well it's not! It actually is fascism =/= nazism.

I have log evidence of said individual denying the legitimacy of the Israeli state, alleging a world conspiracy between Jews, Americans, and communists, and using "Jewish" in a phrase, where, given the context, it could only be construed as a slur.

He's anti-Semitic, even if he doesn't openly acknowledge as much.

Denying the legitimacy of Israel is not anti-semitic. The rest though, yeah

[United Massachusetts]

I have log evidence of said individual denying the legitimacy of the Israeli state, alleging a world conspiracy between Jews, Americans, and communists, and using "Jewish" in a phrase, where, given the context, it could only be construed as a slur.

He's anti-Semitic, even if he doesn't openly acknowledge as much.

Denying the legitimacy of Israel is not anti-semitic. The rest though, yeah

Calling for the destruction of the Israeli state and denying its legitimacy is absolutely anti-Semitism. Per the ADL:

Words or actions related to Israel are anti-Semitic when they blame all Jews for the actions of the state, single out Israel in denying the country’s right to exist as a Jewish state and an equal member of the global community, use anti-Jewish stereotypes or conspiracy theories (such as accusations of Jewish world domination), or traditional anti-Semitic imagery or comparisons to Nazis.

Per the Working Definition of Anti-Semitism:

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor...

Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation...

Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

[1] https://www.adl.org/resources/tools-and ... ti-zionist
[2] https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/wo ... tisemitism

So, per the definitions of anti-Semitism by the EU, the largest anti-hate organization in the US (and also the US government, per the DoE's new definition), calling for the destruction of the Israeli state or denying its legitimacy is absolutely anti-Semitic.

[Kiravian WA Mission]

"The Mission stands immovably opposed to this resolution, obviously. Although we find their accent, sporting affiliations, and fondness for fluffernutters objectionable, in all other respects we would prefer that all members of the World Assembly be a little more like our esteemed colleagues from United Massachusetts."

[Aclion]

I have log evidence of said individual denying the legitimacy of the Israeli state, alleging a world conspiracy between Jews, Americans, and communists, and using "Jewish" in a phrase, where, given the context, it could only be construed as a slur.

He's anti-Semitic, even if he doesn't openly acknowledge as much.

Denying the legitimacy of Israel is not anti-semitic. The rest though, yeah

It depends on the context. In this context it is absolutely antisemitic.

[Caracasus]

I have log evidence of said individual denying the legitimacy of the Israeli state, alleging a world conspiracy between Jews, Americans, and communists, and using "Jewish" in a phrase, where, given the context, it could only be construed as a slur.

He's anti-Semitic, even if he doesn't openly acknowledge as much.

Denying the legitimacy of Israel is not anti-semitic. The rest though, yeah

Oh yeah. There is no way that calling for the actual destruction of Israel (as im presumably raising it to the ground) falls under legitimate criticism of Israel.

[Consular]

I'm just wary because there are plenty of things about Israel that absolutely should be criticised -- and some disreputable Israeli politicians use anti-semitism as a shield. It is very possible to criticise the state, including its right to exist as a state, without any ill will towards Jewish people. But this is getting too NSG so let's stop.

Edit: Happy to discuss via telegram instead.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

A very definite no.

[Caracasus]

I'm just wary because there are plenty of things about Israel that absolutely should be criticised -- and some disreputable Israeli politicians use anti-semitism as a shield. It is very possible to criticise the state, including its right to exist as a state, without any ill will towards Jewish people. But this is getting too NSG so let's stop.

Indeed. Whoever is trying to muddy the waters when it comes to seperating criticism of Israel and antisemitism needs pulling up on. But yes, that would be for NSG.