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(Discussion) Nazi and Communist discrimination.

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UYSSH
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Psychotic Dictatorship

(Discussion) Nazi and Communist discrimination.

Postby UYSSH » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:43 am

I believe people should stop discriminating both Nazis and Commies for their beliefs. I've seen too much of it lately its time to act.

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Ransium
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ransium » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:47 am

I’m willing to see this topic remain unlocked for now with the assumption it will be a general conversation on existing and future SC resolutions, but if this descends into topics better left for General or typical mud slinging we will not hesitate to lock.
Last edited by Ransium on Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Bears Armed
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:14 am

Ransium wrote:but if this descends into topics better left for general or typical mod slinging
pun intentional?
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Ransium
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ransium » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:41 am

Nah, modding from iPhone is unsafe at any speed.

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The Confederate Territory
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Postby The Confederate Territory » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:50 am

UYSSH wrote:I believe people should stop discriminating both Nazis and Commies for their beliefs. I've seen too much of it lately its time to act.


Both are dangerous ideologies that have resulted in mass death when practiced. I doubt the discrimination will ever stop.
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UYSSH
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby UYSSH » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:58 am

The Confederate Territory wrote:
UYSSH wrote:I believe people should stop discriminating both Nazis and Commies for their beliefs. I've seen too much of it lately its time to act.


Both are dangerous ideologies that have resulted in mass death when practiced. I doubt the discrimination will ever stop.

Capitaism killed many and does not get as much hate. I just think that we should stop discriminating these 2

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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:18 am

I highly doubt that 'discrimination' as you put it against fascists and nazis will stop, though most discrimination against communists doesn't get very far, if anywhere.
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Kavagrad
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kavagrad » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:36 am

The Left rarely comes under serious attack from SC resolutions. I can't remember when the last time a condemnation or liberation of a Leftist region even made the floor, nevermind actually passed.

Fascists and Neo-Nazis, of course, should and often do get hit with exactly what they deserve. These are inherently hateful ideologies, hence why they are set apart (note: it is for this reason that I support attacks on racist regions as well).

The reason we don't play death count is because most ideologies implemented on a major scale have high death counts, a fact from which capitalism is not exempt, and nobody wants to waste their time dealing with people from all ends of the political spectrum that seek to exaggerate, play down or deny the death counts of various ideologies, particularly outside of General.
Last edited by Kavagrad on Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:40 am

First of all, Nazis aren't being discriminated against. They're being targeted because the ideology's history of human rights abuse and their contemporary apologetics. Communists also aren't being discriminated against, in fact the problem with them is that the SC gives them a free pass and an air of moral superiority to nazis that they frankly don't deserve.

UYSSH wrote:
The Confederate Territory wrote:
Both are dangerous ideologies that have resulted in mass death when practiced. I doubt the discrimination will ever stop.

Capitaism killed many and does not get as much hate. I just think that we should stop discriminating these 2

Scarcity still being a thing isn't really comparable to reliably committing human rights abuses every time you get in power.
Last edited by Aclion on Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gagium
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Postby Gagium » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:47 pm

UYSSH wrote:
The Confederate Territory wrote:
Both are dangerous ideologies that have resulted in mass death when practiced. I doubt the discrimination will ever stop.

Capitaism killed many and does not get as much hate. I just think that we should stop discriminating these 2

Define 'many'?
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Cotolon
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Postby Cotolon » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:53 pm

Gagium wrote:Define 'many'?

Or not. Looking at the red text that discussion should go to General.

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UYSSH
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby UYSSH » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:57 pm

Cotolon wrote:
Gagium wrote:Define 'many'?

Or not. Looking at the red text that discussion should go to General.

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Gagium
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Postby Gagium » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:33 pm

Cotolon wrote:
Gagium wrote:Define 'many'?

Or not. Looking at the red text that discussion should go to General.

I'm sure just asking for a specific number, when comparing the deaths of capitalism to communism and fascism as a means to discriminate against ideologies within the SC via liberation & condemnation proposals isn't-

Agh. Whatever. I didn't realize that asking for the facts counted as mud slinging. My bad.
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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:52 pm

Gagium wrote:
Cotolon wrote:Or not. Looking at the red text that discussion should go to General.

I'm sure just asking for a specific number, when comparing the deaths of capitalism to communism and fascism as a means to discriminate against ideologies within the SC via liberation & condemnation proposals isn't-

Agh. Whatever. I didn't realize that asking for the facts counted as mud slinging. My bad.

Your asking for facts had nothing to do with the warning to not go into mud-slinging, that was about not having this degenerate into a NSG discussion on which ideology is worst or name-calling
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Ransium
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ransium » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:24 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:
Gagium wrote:I'm sure just asking for a specific number, when comparing the deaths of capitalism to communism and fascism as a means to discriminate against ideologies within the SC via liberation & condemnation proposals isn't-

Agh. Whatever. I didn't realize that asking for the facts counted as mud slinging. My bad.

Your asking for facts had nothing to do with the warning to not go into mud-slinging, that was about not having this degenerate into a NSG discussion on which ideology is worst or name-calling


Exactly, I realize RL informs the IC actions of many, so there is some fuzziness, but if you want to debate RL communism vs facism then the SC isn’t the place.

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The Sherpa Empire
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Sherpa Empire » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:51 am

Just because you're allowed to RP Nazi or Communist nations doesn't mean the SC has to like them.
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Caracasus
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Caracasus » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:31 am

I really haven't seen much in the way of discrimination of communist regions or players by the Security council, its measures have been largely around the new offensive liberations that have only had any success when aimed at fascist regions. Generally once one of these is passed, someone from or associated with the liberated region tries to do the same to The Communist Bloc or other largeish left wing group. I don't remember one of these actually making quorum. The only exception here is the attempt to condemn LD. The only reason that succeeded in getting to vote was because LD went along with it for a while for shits and giggles. Besides, I'm certain LD isn't a fascist and though I can't be 100% sure, I'm pretty sure they're not a card carrying communist either.

I'm going out on a limb here and suggest that the hypothetical implications of the various myriad of ideologies that make up NS players isn't as pressing a concern as the very real racism, antisemitism and toxicity that fascist players and regions "contribute" to the game for most people.
Last edited by Caracasus on Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Roavin
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Roavin » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:34 am

The Sherpa Empire wrote:Just because you're allowed to RP Nazi or Communist nations doesn't mean the SC has to like them.


Pretty much this. And the current prevailing climate is that Nazi/fascist places get less of a pass than the more communist places. You can cry foul all you want, that's just how it is.

Caracasus wrote:I'm going out on a limb here and suggest that the hypothetical implications of the various myriad of ideologies that make up NS players isn't as pressing a concern as the very real racism, antisemitism and toxicity that fascist players and regions "contribute" to the game for most people.


... and I suspect this hits the nail on the head. You have your bad apples espousing some truly despicable views on either side and meaning it (not just RP), but this appears to be much more of an intrinsic part on most of the righter side of the spectrum. Just comparing and contrasting, I actually hung out in The Internationale's Discord for a while - that wasn't really my thing (which is why I left) but I didn't lose faith in humanity over it. Meanwhile, KAISERREICH's Discord (which I recently did a log dump of for spy purposes) has all the jew jokes, literally has a channel called #autism_center (certainly not for good faith discussion about autism), is full of bad to horrifying alt right memes, and ... just something that made me want to burn my computer and become a lumberjack in a secluded forest.
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All Wild Things
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Postby All Wild Things » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:01 am

I suspect that what we see happening in real life is reflected in the SC's reactions. I imagine that the majority of NS players are from western cultures. We see right wing populism as a threat to the world order we are used to, and have benefited from. We see evidence of right wing populism growing - Trump, Brexit, Putin, Orban etc. We don't see left wing populism growing in the same manner. It doesn't pose the same threats to our existence and lifestyles.

The neo-liberations that passed were interesting. KReich was a target for being secretly fascist. Nazi Europe was a target for being overtly fascist. Confederation of Corrupt Dictators appears to have been a target for roleplaying fascist.

Curiously, the [DEFEATED/DISCARDED] Lib. Federation Of Conservative Nations was failing from the start, despite evidence of racism, anti semitism etc. I understand that this proposal was pulled due to cheating. But I never understood why the collective mind of the SC thought that CCD's roleplaying fascists was more deserving of a Liberation than this.

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:25 am

UYSSH wrote:I believe people should stop discriminating both Nazis and Commies for their beliefs. I've seen too much of it lately its time to act.

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Bears Armed
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:45 am

All Wild Things wrote:We don't see left wing populism growing in the same manner. It doesn't pose the same threats to our existence and lifestyles.

Corbyn.
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Ru-
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Postby Ru- » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:26 am

All Wild Things wrote:The neo-liberations that passed were interesting. KReich was a target for being secretly fascist. Nazi Europe was a target for being overtly fascist. Confederation of Corrupt Dictators appears to have been a target for roleplaying fascist.

Curiously, the [DEFEATED/DISCARDED] Lib. Federation Of Conservative Nations was failing from the start, despite evidence of racism, anti semitism etc. I understand that this proposal was pulled due to cheating. But I never understood why the collective mind of the SC thought that CCD's roleplaying fascists was more deserving of a Liberation than this.


CCD was targeted because they are annoying. Never believed for a second it was ever about concerns over facism.

People were fed up with thier loudness in SC/GA topics and especially with thier telegram spam. Tons of posters admitted voting in favor cause they are sick of reading CCD TGs
Last edited by Ru- on Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Reploid Productions » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:56 am

Ru- wrote:CCD was targeted because they are annoying. Never believed for a second it was ever about concerns over facism.

People were fed up with thier loudness in SC/GA topics and especially with thier telegram spam. Tons of posters admitted voting in favor cause they are sick of reading CCD TGs

To be fair, being gleefully self-admitted fascists probably didn't help matters, on top of the arrogance displayed throughout their self-commendation attempt. I have my doubts that a left-leaning or even outright communist region would have gotten smacked a neolib for CCD's level of TG campaign nonsense. Or really, any non-fascist region engaging in that level of endless campaigning. Thus far, neoliberations seem to be reserved just for going after regions that the WA membership generally considers to be promoting OOC dangerous/toxic/whatever ideologies and behaviors. Merely being annoying doesn't seem like it rises to that metric.
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Postby Indo-Malaysia » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:38 pm

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All Wild Things
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Postby All Wild Things » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:47 am

Reploid Productions wrote:Thus far, neoliberations seem to be reserved just for going after regions that the WA membership generally considers to be promoting OOC dangerous/toxic/whatever ideologies and behaviors.

Which is why I was surprised that people were mostly against the Lib. Federation Of Conservative Nations. Any thoughts why that didn't initially get similar levels of support?

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