NATION

PASSWORD

(Discussion) Nazi and Communist discrimination.

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.
User avatar
UYSSH
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Oct 14, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

(Discussion) Nazi and Communist discrimination.

Postby UYSSH » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:43 am

I believe people should stop discriminating both Nazis and Commies for their beliefs. I've seen too much of it lately its time to act.

User avatar
Ransium
Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 6573
Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Ransium » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:47 am

I’m willing to see this topic remain unlocked for now with the assumption it will be a general conversation on existing and future SC resolutions, but if this descends into topics better left for General or typical mud slinging we will not hesitate to lock.
Last edited by Ransium on Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Commended by SC 236,
WA Delegate of Forest since March 20th, 2007.
Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445,GA 463,GA 465,
Issues Editor since January 20th, 2017.
Author of 22 issues. First editor of 44.
Forum Moderator since November 10th, 2017. Game Moderator since March 15th, 2018.

User avatar
Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 19235
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Bears Armed » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:14 am

Ransium wrote:but if this descends into topics better left for general or typical mod slinging
pun intentional?
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

User avatar
Ransium
Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 6573
Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Ransium » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:41 am

Nah, modding from iPhone is unsafe at any speed.

Commended by SC 236,
WA Delegate of Forest since March 20th, 2007.
Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445,GA 463,GA 465,
Issues Editor since January 20th, 2017.
Author of 22 issues. First editor of 44.
Forum Moderator since November 10th, 2017. Game Moderator since March 15th, 2018.

User avatar
The Confederate Territory
Attaché
 
Posts: 71
Founded: Nov 08, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Confederate Territory » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:50 am

UYSSH wrote:I believe people should stop discriminating both Nazis and Commies for their beliefs. I've seen too much of it lately its time to act.


Both are dangerous ideologies that have resulted in mass death when practiced. I doubt the discrimination will ever stop.
Freedoms rise, Stratons despise!

User avatar
UYSSH
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Oct 14, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby UYSSH » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:58 am

The Confederate Territory wrote:
UYSSH wrote:I believe people should stop discriminating both Nazis and Commies for their beliefs. I've seen too much of it lately its time to act.


Both are dangerous ideologies that have resulted in mass death when practiced. I doubt the discrimination will ever stop.

Capitaism killed many and does not get as much hate. I just think that we should stop discriminating these 2

User avatar
Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5967
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:18 am

I highly doubt that 'discrimination' as you put it against fascists and nazis will stop, though most discrimination against communists doesn't get very far, if anywhere.
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Major and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

User avatar
Kavagrad
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1149
Founded: Nov 22, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kavagrad » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:36 am

The Left rarely comes under serious attack from SC resolutions. I can't remember when the last time a condemnation or liberation of a Leftist region even made the floor, nevermind actually passed.

Fascists and Neo-Nazis, of course, should and often do get hit with exactly what they deserve. These are inherently hateful ideologies, hence why they are set apart (note: it is for this reason that I support attacks on racist regions as well).

The reason we don't play death count is because most ideologies implemented on a major scale have high death counts, a fact from which capitalism is not exempt, and nobody wants to waste their time dealing with people from all ends of the political spectrum that seek to exaggerate, play down or deny the death counts of various ideologies, particularly outside of General.
Last edited by Kavagrad on Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Claorica wrote:It's leftists like this that really warm me up to Hoppe's idea of physical removal
Sobriety & Anti-Fascism

User avatar
Aclion
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5644
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Aclion » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:40 am

First of all, Nazis aren't being discriminated against. They're being targeted because the ideology's history of human rights abuse and their contemporary apologetics. Communists also aren't being discriminated against, in fact the problem with them is that the SC gives them a free pass and an air of moral superiority to nazis that they frankly don't deserve.

UYSSH wrote:
The Confederate Territory wrote:
Both are dangerous ideologies that have resulted in mass death when practiced. I doubt the discrimination will ever stop.

Capitaism killed many and does not get as much hate. I just think that we should stop discriminating these 2

Scarcity still being a thing isn't really comparable to reliably committing human rights abuses every time you get in power.
Last edited by Aclion on Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
XKI: Recruiter, TITO Tactical Officer, Deputy WA Secretary, Emissary to Forest
TEP: Deputy Minister for WA affairs
Forest: Cartographer Emeritus
Oatland: Consul ,Caesar and Cartographer Emeritus
The people who participated in China's denial of their role in this outbreak deserve the same scorn and derision of those who've helped past regimes deny their own atrocities.

User avatar
Gagium
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1453
Founded: Apr 08, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gagium » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:47 pm

UYSSH wrote:
The Confederate Territory wrote:
Both are dangerous ideologies that have resulted in mass death when practiced. I doubt the discrimination will ever stop.

Capitaism killed many and does not get as much hate. I just think that we should stop discriminating these 2

Define 'many'?
E

User avatar
Cotolon
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 9
Founded: Oct 29, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Cotolon » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:53 pm

Gagium wrote:Define 'many'?

Or not. Looking at the red text that discussion should go to General.

User avatar
UYSSH
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Oct 14, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby UYSSH » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:57 pm

Cotolon wrote:
Gagium wrote:Define 'many'?

Or not. Looking at the red text that discussion should go to General.

User avatar
Gagium
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1453
Founded: Apr 08, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gagium » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:33 pm

Cotolon wrote:
Gagium wrote:Define 'many'?

Or not. Looking at the red text that discussion should go to General.

I'm sure just asking for a specific number, when comparing the deaths of capitalism to communism and fascism as a means to discriminate against ideologies within the SC via liberation & condemnation proposals isn't-

Agh. Whatever. I didn't realize that asking for the facts counted as mud slinging. My bad.
E

User avatar
Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5967
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:52 pm

Gagium wrote:
Cotolon wrote:Or not. Looking at the red text that discussion should go to General.

I'm sure just asking for a specific number, when comparing the deaths of capitalism to communism and fascism as a means to discriminate against ideologies within the SC via liberation & condemnation proposals isn't-

Agh. Whatever. I didn't realize that asking for the facts counted as mud slinging. My bad.

Your asking for facts had nothing to do with the warning to not go into mud-slinging, that was about not having this degenerate into a NSG discussion on which ideology is worst or name-calling
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Major and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

User avatar
Ransium
Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 6573
Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Ransium » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:24 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:
Gagium wrote:I'm sure just asking for a specific number, when comparing the deaths of capitalism to communism and fascism as a means to discriminate against ideologies within the SC via liberation & condemnation proposals isn't-

Agh. Whatever. I didn't realize that asking for the facts counted as mud slinging. My bad.

Your asking for facts had nothing to do with the warning to not go into mud-slinging, that was about not having this degenerate into a NSG discussion on which ideology is worst or name-calling


Exactly, I realize RL informs the IC actions of many, so there is some fuzziness, but if you want to debate RL communism vs facism then the SC isn’t the place.

Commended by SC 236,
WA Delegate of Forest since March 20th, 2007.
Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445,GA 463,GA 465,
Issues Editor since January 20th, 2017.
Author of 22 issues. First editor of 44.
Forum Moderator since November 10th, 2017. Game Moderator since March 15th, 2018.

User avatar
The Sherpa Empire
Minister
 
Posts: 2099
Founded: Jan 15, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Sherpa Empire » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:51 am

Just because you're allowed to RP Nazi or Communist nations doesn't mean the SC has to like them.
༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།
Following new legislation in The Sherpa Empire, life is short but human kindness is endless.
Alternate IC names: Sherpaland, Pharak

User avatar
Caracasus
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 7919
Founded: Apr 23, 2015
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Caracasus » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:31 am

I really haven't seen much in the way of discrimination of communist regions or players by the Security council, its measures have been largely around the new offensive liberations that have only had any success when aimed at fascist regions. Generally once one of these is passed, someone from or associated with the liberated region tries to do the same to The Communist Bloc or other largeish left wing group. I don't remember one of these actually making quorum. The only exception here is the attempt to condemn LD. The only reason that succeeded in getting to vote was because LD went along with it for a while for shits and giggles. Besides, I'm certain LD isn't a fascist and though I can't be 100% sure, I'm pretty sure they're not a card carrying communist either.

I'm going out on a limb here and suggest that the hypothetical implications of the various myriad of ideologies that make up NS players isn't as pressing a concern as the very real racism, antisemitism and toxicity that fascist players and regions "contribute" to the game for most people.
Last edited by Caracasus on Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
As an editor I seam to spend an awful lot of thyme going threw issues and checking that they're no oblivious errars. Its a tough job but someone's got too do it!



Issues editor, not a moderator.

User avatar
Roavin
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1050
Founded: Apr 07, 2016
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Roavin » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:34 am

The Sherpa Empire wrote:Just because you're allowed to RP Nazi or Communist nations doesn't mean the SC has to like them.


Pretty much this. And the current prevailing climate is that Nazi/fascist places get less of a pass than the more communist places. You can cry foul all you want, that's just how it is.

Caracasus wrote:I'm going out on a limb here and suggest that the hypothetical implications of the various myriad of ideologies that make up NS players isn't as pressing a concern as the very real racism, antisemitism and toxicity that fascist players and regions "contribute" to the game for most people.


... and I suspect this hits the nail on the head. You have your bad apples espousing some truly despicable views on either side and meaning it (not just RP), but this appears to be much more of an intrinsic part on most of the righter side of the spectrum. Just comparing and contrasting, I actually hung out in The Internationale's Discord for a while - that wasn't really my thing (which is why I left) but I didn't lose faith in humanity over it. Meanwhile, KAISERREICH's Discord (which I recently did a log dump of for spy purposes) has all the jew jokes, literally has a channel called #autism_center (certainly not for good faith discussion about autism), is full of bad to horrifying alt right memes, and ... just something that made me want to burn my computer and become a lumberjack in a secluded forest.
RoavinA Francoist-Defenderist Subversive from the South Pacific

"Not to mention TSP are some democracy wankers
and democracy wanking is peak defender
" — Tim

NS Coders Discord | I am a LOLcat | Former First Warden of TGW

User avatar
All Wild Things
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 196
Founded: Apr 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby All Wild Things » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:01 am

I suspect that what we see happening in real life is reflected in the SC's reactions. I imagine that the majority of NS players are from western cultures. We see right wing populism as a threat to the world order we are used to, and have benefited from. We see evidence of right wing populism growing - Trump, Brexit, Putin, Orban etc. We don't see left wing populism growing in the same manner. It doesn't pose the same threats to our existence and lifestyles.

The neo-liberations that passed were interesting. KReich was a target for being secretly fascist. Nazi Europe was a target for being overtly fascist. Confederation of Corrupt Dictators appears to have been a target for roleplaying fascist.

Curiously, the [DEFEATED/DISCARDED] Lib. Federation Of Conservative Nations was failing from the start, despite evidence of racism, anti semitism etc. I understand that this proposal was pulled due to cheating. But I never understood why the collective mind of the SC thought that CCD's roleplaying fascists was more deserving of a Liberation than this.

User avatar
The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27287
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:25 am

UYSSH wrote:I believe people should stop discriminating both Nazis and Commies for their beliefs. I've seen too much of it lately its time to act.

Image
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

NS Hitman
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 19235
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Bears Armed » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:45 am

All Wild Things wrote:We don't see left wing populism growing in the same manner. It doesn't pose the same threats to our existence and lifestyles.

Corbyn.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

User avatar
Ru-
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1092
Founded: Aug 01, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ru- » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:26 am

All Wild Things wrote:The neo-liberations that passed were interesting. KReich was a target for being secretly fascist. Nazi Europe was a target for being overtly fascist. Confederation of Corrupt Dictators appears to have been a target for roleplaying fascist.

Curiously, the [DEFEATED/DISCARDED] Lib. Federation Of Conservative Nations was failing from the start, despite evidence of racism, anti semitism etc. I understand that this proposal was pulled due to cheating. But I never understood why the collective mind of the SC thought that CCD's roleplaying fascists was more deserving of a Liberation than this.


CCD was targeted because they are annoying. Never believed for a second it was ever about concerns over facism.

People were fed up with thier loudness in SC/GA topics and especially with thier telegram spam. Tons of posters admitted voting in favor cause they are sick of reading CCD TGs
Last edited by Ru- on Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
A civilization with an over 3,000 year history of lizard people killing each other and enslaving everyone else. Now they've finally calmed down and formed a modern westernized constitutional monarchy. (long live King Yoshio!)
Still with Her.

----> King Yoshio Q&A Thread! <----
(please help keep it alive if you can. lol )

User avatar
Reploid Productions
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 26739
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Reploid Productions » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:56 am

Ru- wrote:CCD was targeted because they are annoying. Never believed for a second it was ever about concerns over facism.

People were fed up with thier loudness in SC/GA topics and especially with thier telegram spam. Tons of posters admitted voting in favor cause they are sick of reading CCD TGs

To be fair, being gleefully self-admitted fascists probably didn't help matters, on top of the arrogance displayed throughout their self-commendation attempt. I have my doubts that a left-leaning or even outright communist region would have gotten smacked a neolib for CCD's level of TG campaign nonsense. Or really, any non-fascist region engaging in that level of endless campaigning. Thus far, neoliberations seem to be reserved just for going after regions that the WA membership generally considers to be promoting OOC dangerous/toxic/whatever ideologies and behaviors. Merely being annoying doesn't seem like it rises to that metric.
Forum mod since May 8, 2003 -- Game mod since May 19, 2003
Reppy's DoGA FAQ - For those using DoGA to make their NS military and such
One Stop Rules Shop -- Reppy's Sig Workshop -- Getting Help Page
[violet] wrote:Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.
Ifreann wrote:Bring Reppy your signet rings, she is our Brony Queen now!

I believe in the magic of friendship, the wholly awesome bronydom, the conventions of fans,
the forgiveness of haters, the resurrection of faith in humanity, and love everlasting.

In nomine poni, et filly, et spiritus stable.
Char Aznable/Giant Meteor 2020! - Forcing humanity to move into space and progress whether we goddamn want to or not!

User avatar
Indo-Malaysia
Minister
 
Posts: 2551
Founded: Nov 07, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Indo-Malaysia » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:38 pm

Every 60 seconds, a Nazi is discriminated against. With your help, with a donation from £1 a month, we can help end this.
Tsar of the Order of the Southern North.
Minister of Foreign Affairs for KAISERREICH

Winner of the Best Delegate of Warzone Africa award

User avatar
All Wild Things
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 196
Founded: Apr 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby All Wild Things » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:47 am

Reploid Productions wrote:Thus far, neoliberations seem to be reserved just for going after regions that the WA membership generally considers to be promoting OOC dangerous/toxic/whatever ideologies and behaviors.

Which is why I was surprised that people were mostly against the Lib. Federation Of Conservative Nations. Any thoughts why that didn't initially get similar levels of support?

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Security Council

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads