Proposal:Liberate the Communist Bloc

[Kavagrad]

Many of us always objected to that sort of banter and never participated.

Too bad that the "Many of us" that "always" objected to the use of racist slurs doesn't include you, as the screenshots we have prove. SAD!

[Scifonia]

Laughable proposal

[New Waldensia]

Many of us always objected to that sort of banter and never participated.

Too bad that the "Many of us" that "always" objected to the use of racist slurs doesn't include you, as the screenshots we have prove. SAD!

Always doesn't mean "specifically stated after ever single individual use" - it meant "specifically stated from the beginning of the use". Everyone knew that I objected and that I never joined in with it.

I'm not going to allow you to slander me by inference.

[Kavagrad]

Too bad that the "Many of us" that "always" objected to the use of racist slurs doesn't include you, as the screenshots we have prove. SAD!

Always doesn't mean "specifically stated after ever single individual use" - it meant "specifically stated from the beginning of the use". Everyone knew that I objected and that I never joined in with it.

I'm not going to allow you to slander me by inference.

If that's how you want to spin it, fine, but the fact remains that you stood by, and continue to defend, a region in which this sort of language was endemic (and to claim that it wasn't would also be laughable, by the way), as did the rest of the "many" you claim objected to this behaviour. To myself, and I hope to many others, that is profoundly wrong, and proves that the entire region, not just specific individuals, should take the fall for it.

That is the last I will say on the matter, lest I risk threadjacking. For anyone that wants to hear more on this, and see the evidence that we have, please PM me on Discord at #Kava3677

[Lalop]

Always doesn't mean "specifically stated after ever single individual use" - it meant "specifically stated from the beginning of the use". Everyone knew that I objected and that I never joined in with it.

I'm not going to allow you to slander me by inference.

If that's how you want to spin it, fine, but the fact remains that you stood by, and continue to defend, a region in which this sort of language was endemic (and to claim that it wasn't would also be laughable, by the way), as did the rest of the "many" you claim objected to this behaviour. To myself, and I hope to many others, that is profoundly wrong, and proves that the entire region, not just specific individuals, should take the fall for it.

That is the last I will say on the matter, lest I risk threadjacking. For anyone that wants to hear more on this, and see the evidence that we have, please PM me on Discord at #Kava3677

I'll say something on this to,I haven't said anything about it before but thats it on the this subject. Were allowed to use banter on discord. I also think thats it just jokes,and they don't mean it. You can also check,I have said nothing of the sort on discord or anything else in that matter.

[Frisbeeteria]

Were allowed to use banter on discord.

You're not on Discord. When you post here, you're subject to NationStates rules. The "Just kidding" defense doesn't work here.

You can also check,I have said nothing of the sort on discord or anything else in that matter.

What you've been doing here qualifies as threadjacking. In this forum, we discuss proposals, not governmental systems. More than half of your posts in this thread have been off topic. You're not the only offender, but all of you need to get back on topic.

[Forestavia]

Indeed? Where's Forestavia when they're needed to apply their standards to another group?

That's right, crickets. Funny that. I think we had precisely this discussion Caracasus:) Where are all those who had sympathy for the poor Fascists but claimed they didn't. When the shoe's on the other foot, I don't see them rushing to defend us on the same grounds.


Seriously though, this is a bad proposal, the last incarnation of it was declared illegal, it's formatting is crap, its motivated by pro-Fascist sentiments and your own regional leader (ideologically a conservative and no friend of Communism) has told you it's a stupid proposal and to cut it out (yes, we can read your RMB). Was this the 'not a joke' proposal you were planning to submit? Because it's still a joke, just not very funny.

The Ambassador from Forestavia is far too triggered to appear in person. He needs his rest (OOC: busy irl). However, he is sending a brief statement on this particular liberation via the mail:

IN FAVOR - if and when legal
Honorable Cedoria,
Please understand, my sympathies do not lie with the fascists nor with the communists nor with any ideology, but with the people and the principle of peace and regional sovereignty. In this case The Communist Bloc is a region without a founder which puts it at risk of invasion. It is an old region - nearly five years old. And their very own Delegate approved this proposal. This liberation is not a fake one but has the potential to protect them in the uncertain future. This liberation has the potential to give the residents peace on their own soil. If their people are for it then I'm for it.

[The Tri State Area and Maine]

Indeed? Where's Forestavia when they're needed to apply their standards to another group?

That's right, crickets. Funny that. I think we had precisely this discussion Caracasus:) Where are all those who had sympathy for the poor Fascists but claimed they didn't. When the shoe's on the other foot, I don't see them rushing to defend us on the same grounds.


Seriously though, this is a bad proposal, the last incarnation of it was declared illegal, it's formatting is crap, its motivated by pro-Fascist sentiments and your own regional leader (ideologically a conservative and no friend of Communism) has told you it's a stupid proposal and to cut it out (yes, we can read your RMB). Was this the 'not a joke' proposal you were planning to submit? Because it's still a joke, just not very funny.

The Ambassador from Forestavia is far too triggered to appear in person. He needs his rest (OOC: busy irl). However, he is sending a brief statement on this particular liberation via the mail:

IN FAVOR - if and when legal
Honorable Cedoria,
Please understand, my sympathies do not lie with the fascists nor with the communists nor with any ideology, but with the people and the principle of peace and regional sovereignty. In this case The Communist Bloc is a region without a founder which puts it at risk of invasion. It is an old region - nearly five years old. And their very own Delegate approved this proposal. This liberation is not a fake one but has the potential to protect them in the uncertain future. This liberation has the potential to give the residents peace on their own soil. If their people are for it then I'm for it.

They don't need a liberation. They have more endorsements on their World Assembly Delegate than most Sinkers, and we aren't concerned about Osiris, Lazarus, or TRR.

[Saralonia]

Hello i am un favor because everyone deserves a 2nd chance after all this game Is trying to let everyone being how they want while the rules aren't broken by someone

[Tinhampton]

Indeed? Where's Forestavia when they're needed to apply their standards to another group?

That's right, crickets. Funny that. [...]

The Ambassador from Forestavia is far too triggered to appear in person. He needs his rest (OOC: busy irl). However, he is sending a brief statement on this particular liberation via the mail:

IN FAVOR - if and when legal
Honorable Cedoria,
Please understand, my sympathies do not lie with the fascists nor with the communists nor with any ideology, but with the people and the principle of peace and regional sovereignty. In this case The Communist Bloc is a region without a founder which puts it at risk of invasion. It is an old region - nearly five years old. And their very own Delegate approved this proposal. This liberation is not a fake one but has the potential to protect them in the uncertain future. This liberation has the potential to give the residents peace on their own soil. If their people are for it then I'm for it.

There was Alex Smith and Bianca Venkman and Tessa Waterman and Jimmy McTiernan, all four of them, and them be busy playing their cards and such of the like in the dull and moderately egrerigous sham that was Office 46, Wing F, World Assembly HQ, a place strewned with chocolate-topped Cocoa-bos* and murderous fluffy bunny merchandises and 1866 Cathair replica tops and dank bedlinening when this happened... it still is, mind you, I'm reporting on shit that happened five, ten minutes ago. Yeah, I might add a bit of swearings, but them's what I thought they said, mostlies.
"We'm bee'ven told 'bout this stupid nonsense shitty shitface proposal shit to liberate the Communist Block thingy thingy," noted Smithy a couple of minutes after I downed me twenty and fifteenth chocolate-toped Cocao-bo. Why can't we just Commend Turoori already? A convo for another day. "Yaaaar, the Kaiser Reich and Europa Nazi and Corrupt Dictates thingy are also a bit old, Madam Byankuh, we dain't liberate the Nazi people Nazis because they were old, no, they were the Nazis!"
Now, Biankuh bowed er head and made fit to not "If we voeted for thos, we should for this, but we only did so for giggle shits and other thingy thingies!"
"So likewise," Waterman planted, "the Communist Delegate bloke thingy approved this proposal for same. For shame! Lidyuh knows all about them real goods and apparent goods... also a funny girl, I never saw her remarks twisted decontextualised."
"What the actual fucking fuck," bemoaned McTiernan, "is this... ambassador bloke trying to insti---shit, investigate fake Liberations doing trying to give the ultimate up-yours on the grounds that he doesn't like the Comm---I mean on the grounds he enjoys Communists having safe communities? What the actual fu---"
"I'll 'appily snog Lidyuh if this pile of poo gets successfully rammed down me throat!" lamented Smith.
"UNO!" wailed Venkman, much to the surise of every other fucker in thoffice. Fuck me, I need to go to reha...

Important note: The rest of this RP was lost to history after our unattentive messenger vomited part of his 35 chocolate-topped Cocoa-bos onto paper, losing... not very much, we can tell he wanted to go to rehab after this shenanigans!

TL;DR: Against. Very, very, very, very, very emphatically against.

*OOC: Contextual note for those not au fait with NS Sports.

[Cedoria]

Indeed? Where's Forestavia when they're needed to apply their standards to another group?

That's right, crickets. Funny that. I think we had precisely this discussion Caracasus:) Where are all those who had sympathy for the poor Fascists but claimed they didn't. When the shoe's on the other foot, I don't see them rushing to defend us on the same grounds.


Seriously though, this is a bad proposal, the last incarnation of it was declared illegal, it's formatting is crap, its motivated by pro-Fascist sentiments and your own regional leader (ideologically a conservative and no friend of Communism) has told you it's a stupid proposal and to cut it out (yes, we can read your RMB). Was this the 'not a joke' proposal you were planning to submit? Because it's still a joke, just not very funny.

The Ambassador from Forestavia is far too triggered to appear in person. He needs his rest (OOC: busy irl). However, he is sending a brief statement on this particular liberation via the mail:

IN FAVOR - if and when legal
Honorable Cedoria,
Please understand, my sympathies do not lie with the fascists nor with the communists nor with any ideology, but with the people and the principle of peace and regional sovereignty. In this case The Communist Bloc is a region without a founder which puts it at risk of invasion. It is an old region - nearly five years old. And their very own Delegate approved this proposal. This liberation is not a fake one but has the potential to protect them in the uncertain future. This liberation has the potential to give the residents peace on their own soil. If their people are for it then I'm for it.

The region being without a Founder would mean that a Liberation makes it more vulnerable, not less, as it prevents the natives from setting a password.

Also, the Delegate voted for it as a joke my friend. If you're unaware of that, you're either being disingenuous or very, very obtuse.


This is just as much a neoliberation as the ones you were whining about only a few weeks ago. Yet here you are, defending it. Colour me (not) surprised.

[North Saitama]

Back when actual fascist regions were being targeted with offensive liberations we had dozens of very, very dedicated people insisting that they were not fascists bur rather stood strongly against use of liberations in thid way.

I am sure they will be along very shortly to make their points and fight against this proposal as venemantly as they did the others.

Right?

Right, actually (and I call your thinly-veiled attempt to imply that I am a secret Face-ist). I oppose, for the same principled reason: the SC is not for ideological warfare. Leave regions alone if they leave others alone. The Communist Bloc may be abhorrent, and I certainly am no friend of them, but, as long as they aren't raiding other regions, leave them alone.

I will further state that this has gotten out of hand, to the point that we now have an ideological war on the floor of the Security Council.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Deleted.

[North Saitama]

As long as there is no action involved, they are free to abstractly think what they wish. If anybody actually paid attention to my spiel before, the only thing that should be punished is action or imminent threat of action, as abstract advocacy doesn't actually harm anybody.

Just as with Fascists, I am going to act on principle here and wholly oppose.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

As long as there is no action involved, they are free to abstractly think what they wish. If anybody actually paid attention to my spiel before, the only thing that should be punished is action or imminent threat of action, as abstract advocacy doesn't actually harm anybody.

Just as with Fascists, I am going to act on principle here and wholly oppose.

I should have made this more clear, but it's not the communist defending that bothers me; its the hypocrisy, and then having the nerve to project. Edit: I also oppose this resolution on principle.

[Forestavia]

The Ambassador from Forestavia is far too triggered to appear in person. He needs his rest (OOC: busy irl). However, he is sending a brief statement on this particular liberation via the mail:

IN FAVOR - if and when legal
Honorable Cedoria,
Please understand, my sympathies do not lie with the fascists nor with the communists nor with any ideology, but with the people and the principle of peace and regional sovereignty. In this case The Communist Bloc is a region without a founder which puts it at risk of invasion. It is an old region - nearly five years old. And their very own Delegate approved this proposal. This liberation is not a fake one but has the potential to protect them in the uncertain future. This liberation has the potential to give the residents peace on their own soil. If their people are for it then I'm for it.

The region being without a Founder would mean that a Liberation makes it more vulnerable, not less, as it prevents the natives from setting a password.

Also, the Delegate voted for it as a joke my friend. If you're unaware of that, you're either being disingenuous or very, very obtuse.


This is just as much a neoliberation as the ones you were whining about only a few weeks ago. Yet here you are, defending it. Colour me (not) surprised.

If that turns out to be true, then I'll vote against it as well. I'm going to follow Kethania's lead on this one. If Kethania votes for it then so will I. If Kethania votes against it then I will too. Because you're right. Liberations are risky and I like to keep the interventionism minimal. But Kethania is the rightfully endorsed and elected Delegate and speaks for the people. If the Bloc's Delegate thinks that something is afoot and is willing to take that risk - the risk that comes with a liberation - the risk of not being able to institute a password, then I'm willing to take that risk too.

I'm on the fence on this one because The Communist Bloc is founderless but also presently safe in native hands. So this one is a little dicey for me. I'm gonna wait and see. If these people are being liberated from themselves against their will, then it is a neoliberation and deserves to be treated as such and the Taskforce will reach out to them. We should vote against it if it's a fake liberation. If they want the protections as well as the risks of a liberation, then we should vote in favor. It all depends.

[Consular]

I will further state that this has gotten out of hand, to the point that we now have an ideological war on the floor of the Security Council.

For once, I agree with this guy.

If you can show me evidence that TCB as a region is supporting/advocating killing millions (or similar hateful activities) for communism, or knowingly allowing people to internally advocate for such (and write the resolution better), I'll support. Until then, no.

TCB suports millions of people dead because they support communism,which has killed millions of people in China Russia and Eastern Europe. Also,they have a dangerous vendetta against facism,which after ww2 resulted in them killing millions of people for no good reason.

No it doesn't. Please remember you're playing a game.

TCB has done pretty much none of the things you accuse it of, and that is part of why your resolution is terrible.

Most of the people who dont like this prop are members of the CB or commies themselves. SAD!

What's "SAD" is your apparent inability to spell:

Communism is also a hateful political thought due to it NEVER WORKING! Demarcry has failed but its also worked to. Communism only fails. Every communist state is always a tolitarien place.

Stay in school kids

[The Tri State Area and Maine]

The region being without a Founder would mean that a Liberation makes it more vulnerable, not less, as it prevents the natives from setting a password.

Also, the Delegate voted for it as a joke my friend. If you're unaware of that, you're either being disingenuous or very, very obtuse.


This is just as much a neoliberation as the ones you were whining about only a few weeks ago. Yet here you are, defending it. Colour me (not) surprised.

If that turns out to be true, then I'll vote against it as well. I'm going to follow Kethania's lead on this one. If Kethania votes for it then so will I. If Kethania votes against it then I will too. Because you're right. Liberations are risky and I like to keep the interventionism minimal. But Kethania is the rightfully endorsed and elected Delegate and speaks for the people. If the Bloc's Delegate thinks that something is afoot and is willing to take that risk - the risk that comes with a liberation - the risk of not being able to institute a password, then I'm willing to take that risk too.

I'm on the fence on this one because The Communist Bloc is founderless but also presently safe in native hands. So this one is a little dicey for me. I'm gonna wait and see. If these people are being liberated from themselves against their will, then it is a neoliberation and deserves to be treated as such and the Taskforce will reach out to them. We should vote against it if it's a fake liberation. If they want the protections as well as the risks of a liberation, then we should vote in favor. It all depends.

It's pretty clearly a neoliberation. The whole point of it is to "empower the center and right wing to fight back communism."

TCB suports millions of people dead because they support communism,which has killed millions of people in China Russia and Eastern Europe. Also,they have a dangerous vendetta against facism,which after ww2 resulted in them killing millions of people for no good reason.

No it doesn't. Please remember you're playing a game.

TCB has done pretty much none of the things you accuse it of, and that is part of why your resolution is terrible.

To be fair, I could say the exact same thing regarding fascism, and we passed a neoliberation against them.

[Kuriko]

If that turns out to be true, then I'll vote against it as well. I'm going to follow Kethania's lead on this one. If Kethania votes for it then so will I. If Kethania votes against it then I will too. Because you're right. Liberations are risky and I like to keep the interventionism minimal. But Kethania is the rightfully endorsed and elected Delegate and speaks for the people. If the Bloc's Delegate thinks that something is afoot and is willing to take that risk - the risk that comes with a liberation - the risk of not being able to institute a password, then I'm willing to take that risk too.

I'm on the fence on this one because The Communist Bloc is founderless but also presently safe in native hands. So this one is a little dicey for me. I'm gonna wait and see. If these people are being liberated from themselves against their will, then it is a neoliberation and deserves to be treated as such and the Taskforce will reach out to them. We should vote against it if it's a fake liberation. If they want the protections as well as the risks of a liberation, then we should vote in favor. It all depends.

It's pretty clearly a neoliberation. The whole point of it is to "empower the center and right wing to fight back communism."

No it doesn't. Please remember you're playing a game.

TCB has done pretty much none of the things you accuse it of, and that is part of why your resolution is terrible.

To be fair, I could say the exact same thing regarding fascism, and we passed a neoliberation against them.

*Scowls* Stop calling them neoliberations, they're offensive liberations. To keep using that dam word is to only give La Navasse more credence and authority than he deserves.

[Lord Dominator]

It's pretty clearly a neoliberation. The whole point of it is to "empower the center and right wing to fight back communism."



To be fair, I could say the exact same thing regarding fascism, and we passed a neoliberation against them.

*Scowls* Stop calling them neoliberations, they're offensive liberations. To keep using that dam word is to only give La Navasse more credence and authority than he deserves.

Which to be clear, is none

[North Saitama]

The concept itself is woeful, no matter what you call it. It is forcefully opening regions to raiding for mere ideology. It punishes mere opinions, and encourages ideological warfare. It relies on fear-mongering to encourage the World Assembly to act as a warmongering tool, wrapped-up in a shiny package as "stopping X ideology".

I fought it, before, and will continue to fight it until the SC comes to their senses. As long as a region keeps to themselves, the SC should leave them alone.

[Prydania]

For, for the same reasons. Communism, totalitarian socialism, whatever you wish to call it. It’s an abhorrent ideology and must be shown it’s not welcome here.

It’s refreshing to see that at least North Saitama standing on principal, however much we may be opposed to their naive worldview.

It is not shocking to see Forestavia play the role of hypocrite, however. That delegation opposes these
measures aimed at fascist regions, supports them when aimed at communist regions, ends posts with the CCD’s slogan, and works for forge alliances with Nazi Europa and KREICH. And then has the nerve to claim he is not a fascists or fascist sympathizer.

I don’t care if your FOR vote is one more on the side of the tally I support, Forestavia. I’d have more respect if you’d stick by your alleged principals. It is clear, however, that promoting fascism seems to
be your end goal here, not protection of freedom of expression as you claim.

[North Saitama]

For, for the same reasons. Communism, totalitarian socialism, whatever you wish to call it. It’s an abhorrent ideology and must be shown it’s not welcome here.

It’s refreshing to see that at least North Saitama standing on principal, however much we may be opposed to their naive worldview.

The problem I have with the world view of Prydania is that it it follows the authoritarian mindset of using the law to shape society to our own vision, no matter how many dissidents we punish. My mindset values individual liberty and the right to self-determination, with laws in-place to ensure that order and justice are kept, and, actually, to protect the individual liberties of parties from the concrete actions of others.

I actually understand the consequences of leaving abhorrent ideologies alone; I just think that mere possibilities are preferable to concrete steps to authoritarianism, which are what you propose.

[Consular]

No it doesn't. Please remember you're playing a game.

TCB has done pretty much none of the things you accuse it of, and that is part of why your resolution is terrible.

To be fair, I could say the exact same thing regarding fascism, and we passed a neoliberation against them.

Nope. The "neoliberation" you're talking about did not say we are liberating them because they have supported millions of deaths in the real world. Try again.

[Caracasus]

For, for the same reasons. Communism, totalitarian socialism, whatever you wish to call it. It’s an abhorrent ideology and must be shown it’s not welcome here.

It’s refreshing to see that at least North Saitama standing on principal, however much we may be opposed to their naive worldview.

It is not shocking to see Forestavia play the role of hypocrite, however. That delegation opposes these
measures aimed at fascist regions, supports them when aimed at communist regions, ends posts with the CCD’s slogan, and works for forge alliances with Nazi Europa and KREICH. And then has the nerve to claim he is not a fascists or fascist sympathizer.

I don’t care if your FOR vote is one more on the side of the tally I support, Forestavia. I’d have more respect if you’d stick by your alleged principals. It is clear, however, that promoting fascism seems to
be your end goal here, not protection of freedom of expression as you claim.

While I seriously doubt that i will change your mind onr viewpoints on communism, I will point out that supporting offensive liberations of regions other than fascist regions undermines the principle that they are used against fascist regions solely.

This further draws false equivilence (whatever you feel about TCB they are not advocating racism for instance) and further muddies the waters as to why fascism is to be considered far beyond the pale.