[SUBMT] Repeal "Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators"

[Forestavia]

*Rubs hands together*
I have a but a humble question for the administrator:

Let's assume Confederation of Corrupt Dictators remains liberated. Let's assume that the founder, Jocospor CTE. Let's also assume that Jocospor dies off leaving the CCD without a password. So now CCD is founderless, liberated, and passwordless.

Now, hypothetically, let's say that Prydania and Lord Dominator successfully lead an army to invade and conquer the region. Prydania takes the Delegacy and is the executive WA delegate of CCD. Being the delegate, Prydania understands that he is unable to password the region and so uses every bit of influence to purge the region of natives. But he has an idea (that perhaps has never been tried before). Prydania appoints Lord Dominator (who let's assume has so much influence by this point that she doesn't know what to do with it) as a Border Control Officer.

Question: Assuming all of the above, does Lord Dominator have the power to password CCD?

This is an absurd line of questioning.
You assume that I, if I’m installed as Delegate of the CCD, would purge the region as my first act. When anyone who knows me will tell you my first act would be to change the flag (I would have had multiple options made up in the lead-up to the operation) and my second act would be to declare Tuesdays Taco Tuesdays in line with the Gay Agenda(tm).
My third act would be to make an address on the RMB that used a lot of Hebrew and Yiddish terms just to rub salt in the wounds of fascists and other assorted wanna-be edgelords.

After that I’d probably go back to doing the main thing I actually enjoy doing in NS, RPing in TNP’s forum-based RP.
This would leave LD free to rule the CCD as they saw fit, as I would have stopped caring by that point

I’m just saying. Make your hypotheticals realistic XD

Lol!

[RiderSyl]

By restricting viewpoints, you legitimise restricting unpopular opinions, instead of saying “under no circumstances is this okay”.

Slippery slope fallacy.

There's no evidence that bashing the fash will lead to greater overall suppression of speech.

[Forestavia]

It's not a treehouse. It's sovereign CCD soil. That region belongs to those nations. It is their home. And they have a right to be there.

Now, if CCD decides to raid regions in the name of expanding their corrupt, dictatorial, fascist influence then that would be a tree house and we have a responsibility to respond to that. If they move, the Security Council should move. If they stay, we stay. Same idea when I voted for the Liberation of Boston. KAISERREICH was involved in that and we needed to respond to stop the threat to keep them in their place. Our goal should be containment, not eradication.

Containment on online forums doesn't work. Eradication does.

Containment totally does work. There are game mechanics that allow for containment. SC liberations for example (*ahem* when used properly), condemnations (SC wags finger in disapproval), commendations (SC cheers with applause), raiding, defending, immigration from one region to another, regional creation and destruction, regional militaries, endorsements, piling, influence, spying, etc. We have access to all of these tools. Containment is the progressive way forward. And it's more fun, too!

[Prydania]

Apparently you don’t, though, as you still keep trying to make ideological arguments, when I still don’t care about ideology in this context. You could substitute ANY ideology for Fascism and my position would be no different. You could advocate for the complete extermination and extinction of the human race and it wouldn’t change anything, as long as you don’t cross the action line. Continuing to try ideological arguments is going to continue to not work.

No, see I understand your point here perfectly well. I just find it absurd.
"Ideology doesn't matter."
Um, yes it does. You can keep insisting it doesn't. You can convince yourself it doesn't, but it does. It matters a great deal.

No, I am advocating not restricting what you are allowed to think.

Who says I'm trying to tell people what they can and cannot think? I supported the offensive Liberation aimed at the CCD. That's all. No where did I advocate for any Thought Police-style legislation.
The CCD is free to continue being a region of fascists. RP or otherwise (though I believe we have sufficient evidence that their fascism was more than just "RP"). They're free to believe and advocate whatever they like. I never once said they should be banned from the game, or that their forum posts or RMB posts advocating fascism should be deleted. I never suggested any of these measures.

All I did was advocate for hitting the CCD with consequences of their freedom of speech. As such a proud defender of freedom of expression? You should know that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of speech.
The CCD and its membership can be lil' internet edge-lord fascists to their hearts' content. This offensive liberation is merely a consequence of them doing so in as obnoxious a manner as possible.

That's the thing with most internet fascists these days. They're mostly teens or in their early 20s. Which is the perfect age range to demand all the benefits of a thing without expecting the consequences and responsibilities that come with it.
They all want "FREE SPEECH!" (despite adhering to an ideology fundamentally opposed to freedom of speech) without realizing that sometimes free speech means you have consequences to face.

And there you go again making baseless claims that I am a Face-ist. Tell me, are the ACLU also Fascist? They have defended neo-Nazis from restrictions on freedom of expression.

The ACLU operates in the United States, which has very clearly defined freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of conscious laws and statutes. They serve a vital purpose in the US, even when defending fascists, by ensuring that the freedoms enshrined in the US Constitution are upheld.

NS is not the United States. NS has no equivalent of the US Constitution. There are no NS equivalents of the American statutes and laws the ACLU goes to bat to defend time and time again. You cannot compare yourself to the ACLU because NS is not the United States.

And I'm inferring you are a fascist apologist because you only seem interested in standing up for freedom of expression and freedom of speech when it's in defence of fascism. An ideology that's fundamentally opposed to the very values you claim you're championing. It makes me question your sincerity. Since fascists who go on about freedom of speech while admitting they don't really support freedom of speech are a thing these days.

And, to be honest, the concept of the “dog whistle” is, at best, a legitimised strawman, by trying to read intent into a case.

As I said earlier, I'm calling a spade a space. You only seem interested in defending free speech in NS when it's in defence of fascism.
If you are being sincere? I find your position to be a naive and milquetoast approach to dealing with fascists.
If you aren't? Well you're an apologist for a genocidal ideology.

Either way? Your position is worth opposing.

[Caracasus]

Containment on online forums doesn't work. Eradication does.

Containment totally does work. There are game mechanics that allow for containment. SC liberations for example (*ahem* when used properly), condemnations (SC wags finger in disapproval), commendations (SC cheers with applause), raiding, defending, immigration from one region to another, regional creation and destruction, regional militaries, endorsements, piling, influence, spying, etc. We have access to all of these tools. Containment is the progressive way forward. And it's more fun, too!

Nope, containment provides fascists with an echo chamber that reinforces their (for want of a better word) opinions and toxicity seeps out into the rest of the site. Destruction forces them into other areas of the site where their views aren't accepted and do not go unchallenged, forcing them to either leave for another site, shut the hell up and stop spreading their bullshit or deal with being a laughing stock of whatever region they wind up in.

[Prydania]

Containment on online forums doesn't work. Eradication does.

Containment totally does work. There are game mechanics that allow for containment. SC liberations for example (*ahem* when used properly), condemnations (SC wags finger in disapproval), commendations (SC cheers with applause), raiding, defending, immigration from one region to another, regional creation and destruction, regional militaries, endorsements, piling, influence, spying, etc. We have access to all of these tools. Containment is the progressive way forward. And it's more fun, too!

Condemnations are toothless. There's a reason offensive Liberations came into being in the first place. If Condemnations worked? There would be no need for offensive Liberations. They don't though, and so there is.

You want to return to Condemnations being the norm? Fix the game so they have teeth.

Although TBH? Even if the offensive Liberations against KREICH, Nazi Europa, and the CCD were straight up, old fashion Condemnations? You, North Saitama, etc... would still be opposing them because we were being mean to fascists or some such milquetoast argument.

It is my opinion that knocking down fascist treehouses is necessary for interregional peace and goodwill. It appears that a good 2/3rds agree with me on that.

It's not a treehouse. It's sovereign CCD soil. That region belongs to those nations. It is their home. And they have a right to be there.

The question is "do we want fascists to have safe spaces in our community?"

Plenty of other social media platforms purged the lot of them in the aftermath of Charlottesville. We, as the members of this community, are within our rights to say "we want fascists to be as unwelcome here as possible."

[Jar Wattinree]

Question: Assuming all of the above, does Lord Dominator have the power to password CCD?

Lord Dominator would then refound the region at update. Presto, new fash trophy for The MT Army.

[Lord Dominator]

Question: Assuming all of the above, does Lord Dominator have the power to password CCD?

Lord Dominator would then refound the region at update. Presto, new fash trophy for The MT Army.

Or heck, repeal the liberation and lock it down permanently before doing that

[Sancta Romana Ecclesia]

Please. Stop. Submitting. Resolutions. About. This. Region.

Thanks.

Against. I voted for the liberation, because it is possible for it to have a positive effect. Rather unlikely, but still... Also, submitting a repeal of the resolution after said resolution has passed with a comfortable majority is pretty pointless.

[North Saitama]

Apparently you don’t, though, as you still keep trying to make ideological arguments, when I still don’t care about ideology in this context. You could substitute ANY ideology for Fascism and my position would be no different. You could advocate for the complete extermination and extinction of the human race and it wouldn’t change anything, as long as you don’t cross the action line. Continuing to try ideological arguments is going to continue to not work.

No, see I understand your point here perfectly well. I just find it absurd.
"Ideology doesn't matter."
Um, yes it does. You can keep insisting it doesn't. You can convince yourself it doesn't, but it does. It matters a great deal.

No, I am advocating not restricting what you are allowed to think.

Who says I'm trying to tell people what they can and cannot think? I supported the offensive Liberation aimed at the CCD. That's all. No where did I advocate for any Thought Police-style legislation.
The CCD is free to continue being a region of fascists. RP or otherwise (though I believe we have sufficient evidence that their fascism was more than just "RP"). They're free to believe and advocate whatever they like. I never once said they should be banned from the game, or that their forum posts or RMB posts advocating fascism should be deleted. I never suggested any of these measures.

All I did was advocate for hitting the CCD with consequences of their freedom of speech. As such a proud defender of freedom of expression? You should know that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of speech.
The CCD and its membership can be lil' internet edge-lord fascists to their hearts' content. This offensive liberation is merely a consequence of them doing so in as obnoxious a manner as possible.

That's the thing with most internet fascists these days. They're mostly teens or in their early 20s. Which is the perfect age range to demand all the benefits of a thing without expecting the consequences and responsibilities that come with it.
They all want "FREE SPEECH!" (despite adhering to an ideology fundamentally opposed to freedom of speech) without realizing that sometimes free speech means you have consequences to face.

And there you go again making baseless claims that I am a Face-ist. Tell me, are the ACLU also Fascist? They have defended neo-Nazis from restrictions on freedom of expression.

The ACLU operates in the United States, which has very clearly defined freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of conscious laws and statutes. They serve a vital purpose in the US, even when defending fascists, by ensuring that the freedoms enshrined in the US Constitution are upheld.

NS is not the United States. NS has no equivalent of the US Constitution. There are no NS equivalents of the American statutes and laws the ACLU goes to bat to defend time and time again. You cannot compare yourself to the ACLU because NS is not the United States.

And I'm inferring you are a fascist apologist because you only seem interested in standing up for freedom of expression and freedom of speech when it's in defence of fascism. An ideology that's fundamentally opposed to the very values you claim you're championing. It makes me question your sincerity. Since fascists who go on about freedom of speech while admitting they don't really support freedom of speech are a thing these days.

And, to be honest, the concept of the “dog whistle” is, at best, a legitimised strawman, by trying to read intent into a case.

As I said earlier, I'm calling a spade a space. You only seem interested in defending free speech in NS when it's in defence of fascism.
If you are being sincere? I find your position to be a naive and milquetoast approach to dealing with fascists.
If you aren't? Well you're an apologist for a genocidal ideology.

Either way? Your position is worth opposing.

No, it doesn't, in regard to freedom of expression. As ideologies and viewpoints are subjective, rejecting censorship entirely ensures that the free mind is protected from the majority using force against other opinions. And I feel like your hatred of Fascism is making you unable to see things logically.

You see, by trying to stamp-out Fascism with force, you are punishing a mere state of mind; nobody else is actually harmed by abstract thoughts. You may think that it harms people, but, it doesn't concretely, as words are meaningless without action or imminent intent (which can be determined from abstract advocacy by legal tests like the Brandenburg test). Even crimes and other offences in the name of said ideology can be dealt with by punishing the individuals responsible, not adherents to an abstract concept.

In short, the entire problem with your position is that you are making-up abstract crimes for adherents of an ideology to be guilty of. You aren't punishing the concrete, which, in the context of individual liberty, involves infringing upon the individual liberties of other people. Rather, you are punishing abstract thoughts that may be abhorrent in the public eye.

You are inferring something based on when it happens? You do realise that the SC doesn't really target any other ideologies; I have no other choice but to defend Fascists in the interest of freedom of expression. And, to be honest, I see it as a problem how you keep trying to shove Fascists into this discussion at all, when their importance is nominal, at best.

As for consequences, do you also not understand what consequences entail? You can have social consequences, yes, but what you are proposing are not social consequences. While OOC SC actions may be social, IC, it is preventing a region by force from defending itself. Based on your tone, I would even dare say that the consequences you have in mind are concrete, and not abstract such as dislike and a low opinion of someone.

I get that you hate Fascists. The problem is that you are letting your hatred of their abstract opinions allow you to accept double standards and interventionism. You are, yourself, demonstrating the same "exterminate them with force" mindset that they do, and have this same dehumanising mindset of "them", rather than defeating bad ideas with good ideas. Remember: He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

[Prydania]

And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

History has proven that direct confrontation is the most effective tool against fascism. Or would you call the people who stood up to the British Union of Fascists in 1936 monsters?

Or the people who took peaceful but direct action against Richard Spencer in Florida?

No, it doesn't, in regard to freedom of expression. As ideologies and viewpoints are subjective, rejecting censorship entirely ensures that the free mind is protected from the majority using force against other opinions.

And THIS is why I keep inferring you're a fascist apologist. Because genocide being abhorrent is not subjective. Yet you keep insisting it is. Which leads me to believe that you are, in some way, trying to quietly advocate for fascist apologism.

I have no other choice but to defend Fascists in the interest of freedom of expression.

Oh you absolutely have a choice. Considering that fascists, if they could, would curtail your freedom of expression greatly.

And I feel like your hatred of Fascism is making you unable to see things logically.

Oh I see things very logically. I've sat at Passover seders next to family that survived Auschwitz. I've seen the tattoos first hand. I'm well aware of what fascism is, what it has done, and what it would do to me if it had the opportunity.
I hate fascism, yes. Another reason I'm calling you out for being a fascist apologist is because you see that hated as illogical or otherwise flawed. You, in either your supreme arrogance or fascist sympathies, refuse to acknowledged WHY I hate fascism, or acknowledge that I hate it for very real, real-world reasons.

Look, if I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt? I get it. You're not immediately in the cross-hairs of these people. If you do oppose fascists ideologically? It's all abstract for you. It's a matter of simply being a thing you disagree with on principle, for you. Because you're not the people they're calling for the extermination of. You're not the one they denigrate with rhetoric. You're not the one whose houses of prayer and cemeteries are vandalized. You're not the one they consider a crime for merely existing.

I am though. This isn't abstract for me. Nor is it abstract for millions of other people this ideology targets. It's about protecting our right to human dignity. Our right to be safe, our right to live our lives free of harassment. Our right to be who we are without that being considered wrong or a crime. It's about us asserting our right to live, period.
Because fascists, even abstract fascist thought, would deny us all of that.

I get that you hate Fascists.

I don't think you do, to be honest. Maybe talk to someone who survived a death camp. Talk to people who have been victimized by fascists over the past few years. Maybe gain a bit of perspective from those who, unlike you, are directly in the crosshairs of fascism.
And maybe it'll stop seeming so fucking abstract to you.

Edit-
As an aside, I can guess one of your first instincts to respond is going to be "well here you are going 'fascism is bad' again and it doesn't matter."

Well here's the thing. It does. And you telling me it doesn't matter? Well that in and of itself doesn't matter to me. For the reasons above.
So if we're ever going to sniff common ground on this issue? You're going to have to at least acknowledge why I, and so many others, find fascism abhorrent.
And once you've actually, you know, admitted that genocide is bad and people generally don't approve of that? Then maybe, if you can convince us of a better way of combating fascism we can see some real compromise and progress.

But you going "ideology doesn't matter, you all just don't get it, leave fascists alone" isn't going to win anyone of us over.

[North Saitama]

And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

History has proven that direct confrontation is the most effective tool against fascism. Or would you call the people who stood up to the British Union of Fascists in 1936 monsters?

Or the people who took peaceful but direct action against Richard Spencer in Florida?

No, it doesn't, in regard to freedom of expression. As ideologies and viewpoints are subjective, rejecting censorship entirely ensures that the free mind is protected from the majority using force against other opinions.

And THIS is why I keep inferring you're a fascist apologist. Because genocide being abhorrent is not subjective. Yet you keep insisting it is. Which leads me to believe that you are, in some way, trying to quietly advocate for fascist apologism.

I have no other choice but to defend Fascists in the interest of freedom of expression.

Oh you absolutely have a choice. Considering that fascists, if they could, would curtail your freedom of expression greatly.

And I feel like your hatred of Fascism is making you unable to see things logically.

Oh I see things very logically. I've sat at Passover seders next to family that survived Auschwitz. I've seen the tattoos first hand. I'm well aware of what fascism is, what it has done, and what it would do to me if it had the opportunity.
I hate fascism, yes. Another reason I'm calling you out for being a fascist apologist is because you see that hated as illogical or otherwise flawed. You, in either your supreme arrogance or fascist sympathies, refuse to acknowledged WHY I hate fascism, or acknowledge that I hate it for very real, real-world reasons.

Look, if I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt? I get it. You're not immediately in the cross-hairs of these people. If you do oppose fascists ideologically? It's all abstract for you. It's a matter of simply being a thing you disagree with on principle, for you. Because you're not the people they're calling for the extermination of. You're not the one they denigrate with rhetoric. You're not the one whose houses of prayer and cemeteries are vandalized. You're not the one they consider a crime for merely existing.

I am though. This isn't abstract for me. Nor is it abstract for millions of other people this ideology targets. It's about protecting our right to human dignity. Our right to be safe, our right to live our lives free of harassment. Our right to be who we are without that being considered wrong or a crime. It's about us asserting our right to live, period.
Because fascists, even abstract fascist thought, would deny us all of that.

I get that you hate Fascists.

I don't think you do, to be honest. Maybe talk to someone who survived a death camp. Talk to people who have been victimized by fascists over the past few years. Maybe gain a bit of perspective from those who, unlike you, are directly in the crosshairs of fascism.
And maybe it'll stop seeming so fucking abstract to you.

1. Just because it is effective doesn't mean that there aren't consequences. I've laid-out the ethical consequences of force: you are basically no better, due to using force to enforce your own sense of morality.

2. I don't think you know what objective actually is. Objective implies facts, not emotions. Furthermore, while it is horrible, you are using this as justification to stamp-out the rights of individuals for merely advocating for this. Should the people that wish for the apocalypse, for nuclear war, or for any number of things causing mass deaths and even extinction of the human race, also have their opinions stamped-out? A meteor caused the extinction of many species of dinosaurs (or at least they think), and countless individual animals; should the people wishing for a meteor and the extinction of the human race in a similar fashion be subject to the same standard?


Furthermore, you are still trying to push the claim that I'm a Face-ist, but you fail to realise that, if we go by demonstrated principles, the one closer to Fascism is thou, not me. You are right in that Fascism goes against my own principles, which is what make mine so strong: I am willing to defend the individual liberties of followers of an ideology that I find grotesque and counter to all of my principles, when I could easily just pay empty lip-service to my own principles by supporting stamping it out with force. Meanwhile, you demonstrate the same mindset as Fascists, in that you dehumanise your targets, and suggest stamping them out with force and jackboots.

And, by the way, remember when I mentioned that I am half-Slavic? I am also 1/4 Mexican; mixed. Never mind the horrific treatment and genocide of Slavs by historical Fascists. Don't tell me about "not being in the crosshairs".

[Prydania]

1. Just because it is effective doesn't mean that there aren't consequences. I've laid-out the ethical consequences of force: you are basically no better, due to using force to enforce your own sense of morality...

Meanwhile, you demonstrate the same mindset as Fascists, in that you dehumanise your targets, and suggest stamping them out with force and jackboots...

Furthermore, you are still trying to push the claim that I'm a Face-ist, but you fail to realise that, if we go by demonstrated principles, the one closer to Fascism is thou, not me.

The group that says "we're going to engage in genocidal politics" is not morally equivalent to the side that says "we're going to stop you."
Genocide and standing up to genocide are not the same thing.

Or are the people who stood up to the British Union of Fascists "monsters," in your view?

I don't think you know what objective actually is. Objective implies facts, not emotions. Furthermore, while it is horrible, you are using this as justification to stamp-out the rights of individuals for merely advocating for this.

As someone who has seen the real world effects of fascism? You're damn right I want to stamp it out. Any decent person should.
That you continue to insist that fascism's genocidal goals aren't objectively wrong is why I'm calling you a fascist apologist.

You are right in that Fascism goes against my own principles, which is what make mine so strong: I am willing to defend the individual liberties of followers of an ideology that I find grotesque and counter to all of my principles...

I used to think like that. And then I realized that the people who sent my family to death camps weren't vanquished monsters from history. They have adherents in the modern day, adherents who take abstract fascist thought and bring it into the real world with deadly consequences.

And, by the way, remember when I mentioned that I am half-Slavic? I am also 1/4 Mexican; mixed. Never mind the horrific treatment and genocide of Slavs by historical Fascists. Don't tell me about "not being in the crosshairs".

Slavic fascists exist.
As do Mexican fascists.

I mean pretty nonsensical right? They do exist though.
That being said, assuming you're not aligned with something like that? It just tells me you're idealistic to the point that you're advocating for your would-be murderers.

[Kuriko]

Can anyone say "threadjack"? People, this isn't NSG. Its the SC, so please get back on topic.....

[Farnhamia]

Can anyone say "threadjack"? People, this isn't NSG. Its the SC, so please get back on topic.....

*looms ominously* Seems like a good idea.

[Prydania]

Can anyone say "threadjack"? People, this isn't NSG. Its the SC, so please get back on topic.....

Well I do apologize, though I feel a discussion of fascism is appropriate considering the morality behind "Liberate CCD" is very much at the heart of the debate over this repeal.

In so far as NS goes? The mods have made it quite clear that the SC, including how Liberations are used, is what the players make of it. Therefore any claim that using Liberations in an offensive manner violates the purpose of Liberations is false. The vast majority of WA voting nations decided using Liberations in this manner was acceptable. Therefore using Liberations in this manner is acceptable.

Nothing was betrayed, nothing was misused. NS' WA, be it the GA or SC, has always been controlled anarchy. It's what the player base makes of it. The player base decided an offensive Liberation against CCD was justified, and therefore nothing was misused since use itself determines viability.

[Forestavia]

It's not a treehouse. It's sovereign CCD soil. That region belongs to those nations. It is their home. And they have a right to be there.

The question is "do we want fascists to have safe spaces in our community?"

Plenty of other social media platforms purged the lot of them in the aftermath of Charlottesville. We, as the members of this community, are within our rights to say "we want fascists to be as unwelcome here as possible."

Now, I know that nukes are flying everywhere right now so the timing of this reply may seem a bit ironic. But yes. Everyone deserves to feel safe in our global community. We are all in this together. Look at our motto. "Spreading interregional peace and goodwill..." That is a noble goal. A worthy goal. It's the kind of statement that should make one feel safe and cozy inside. Even the fascists, even the communists, even the authoritarians, even the nations of CCD all deserve a safe place to call home - a place they can call their own. And if we can't do our jobs and spread peace in the halls of the SC gosh darn it! Then...

*mushroom cloud*

[Forestavia]

You see, by trying to stamp-out Fascism with force, you are punishing a mere state of mind; nobody else is actually harmed by abstract thoughts. You may think that it harms people, but, it doesn't concretely, as words are meaningless without action or imminent intent (which can be determined from abstract advocacy by legal tests like the Brandenburg test). Even crimes and other offences in the name of said ideology can be dealt with by punishing the individuals responsible, not adherents to an abstract concept.

In short, the entire problem with your position is that you are making-up abstract crimes for adherents of an ideology to be guilty of. You aren't punishing the concrete, which, in the context of individual liberty, involves infringing upon the individual liberties of other people. Rather, you are punishing abstract thoughts that may be abhorrent in the public eye.

You are absolutely right North Saitama! And I have proof to back up your statement.

Right here >>>> Click

Ladies and Gentleman, that is a link that you can find on the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators Word Factbook Entry. The link is titled "Raiding". Some us may think about how pathetic a region can be to have over 500 nations and no functional military. But in my opinion, what is more pathetic is the fact that we have needlessly targeted a region with a preemptive so-called "liberation" - a region that has an active founder has been attacked on it's own soil against the will of its people by us. And they don't even have the means to strike back.

As the Honorable North Saitama has already stated. These people are a living abstraction. They've committed no crimes. And it appears that they don't even have the means to commit any action to back up their abstraction.

Honestly, at this point, I don't even think this region is worthy of a condemnation. I am so glad that this repeal is less than 25 approvals away from making quorum. I'm very excited at the prospect of the Security Council taking back its badge of neoliberation. This so-called "liberation" never should have passed to begin with. CCD is not worth our time.

[Cedoria]

How dare anyone try and take away our hard-earned accolade! The Confederation stands proudly against this repeal action!

I promise you, I will do everything in my power to have that Liberation removed from your region. Your region is not worthy of that so-called "liberation". That "liberation" was foolishly given to your region as a badge of war. Liberations should not be badges of war but they should be badges of peace.

I stand proudly in favor of this repeal as your region is not under attack nor is it occupied. This is not even a liberation. This is a fake liberation. It's a preemptive neoliberation. Hopefully some day this chamber will go back to using the Liberation in the traditional way. We're not using it properly and we're handing them out like candy to regions like yours who don't even deserve them!

(Hail the Confederation!)

Claims he's not a Fascist, but defends them at every turn, admits to having a nation in CCD and now uses their own greeting in a post.

Geez, any wonder why people don't believe you when you claim to not be sympathetic?

[Cedoria]

You see, by trying to stamp-out Fascism with force, you are punishing a mere state of mind; nobody else is actually harmed by abstract thoughts. You may think that it harms people, but, it doesn't concretely, as words are meaningless without action or imminent intent (which can be determined from abstract advocacy by legal tests like the Brandenburg test). Even crimes and other offences in the name of said ideology can be dealt with by punishing the individuals responsible, not adherents to an abstract concept.

In short, the entire problem with your position is that you are making-up abstract crimes for adherents of an ideology to be guilty of. You aren't punishing the concrete, which, in the context of individual liberty, involves infringing upon the individual liberties of other people. Rather, you are punishing abstract thoughts that may be abhorrent in the public eye.

You are absolutely right North Saitama! And I have proof to back up your statement.

Right here >>>> Click

Ladies and Gentleman, that is a link that you can find on the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators Word Factbook Entry. The link is titled "Raiding". Some us may think about how pathetic a region can be to have over 500 nations and no functional military. But in my opinion, what is more pathetic is the fact that we have needlessly targeted a region with a preemptive so-called "liberation" - a region that has an active founder has been attacked on it's own soil against the will of its people by us. And they don't even have the means to strike back.

As the Honorable North Saitama has already stated. These people are a living abstraction. They've committed no crimes. And it appears that they don't even have the means to commit any action to back up their abstraction.

Honestly, at this point, I don't even think this region is worthy of a condemnation. I am so glad that this repeal is less than 25 approvals away from making quorum. I'm very excited at the prospect of the Security Council taking back its badge of neoliberation. This so-called "liberation" never should have passed to begin with. CCD is not worth our time.

Direct advocacy of Fascism is advocacy of murder and genocide. Such advocacy is a crime in the eyes of the SC.


OK, make up your mind here. On the one hand you whine about us condemning 'over 500 nations' to invasion, then you claim they're so weak they can't possibly pose a threat. Which is it? Either the Confederation is too large to be Liberated, or they're too small to be a threat. Find one argument and stick to it. But the size of the Confederation alone would indicate it's significant enough in numerical terms to be a potential issue for the SC.


But we know you, constantly twisting yourself in knots for the defence of Fascists you are totally NOT sympathetic too:)

[Forestavia]

I promise you, I will do everything in my power to have that Liberation removed from your region. Your region is not worthy of that so-called "liberation". That "liberation" was foolishly given to your region as a badge of war. Liberations should not be badges of war but they should be badges of peace.

I stand proudly in favor of this repeal as your region is not under attack nor is it occupied. This is not even a liberation. This is a fake liberation. It's a preemptive neoliberation. Hopefully some day this chamber will go back to using the Liberation in the traditional way. We're not using it properly and we're handing them out like candy to regions like yours who don't even deserve them!

(Hail the Confederation!)

Claims he's not a Fascist, but defends them at every turn, admits to having a nation in CCD and now uses their own greeting in a post.

Geez, any wonder why people don't believe you when you claim to not be sympathetic?

It's a matter of priorities. Regional sovereignty is first. Equal rights are first. And then various forms of anti-authoritarianism (which just so happens to include fascism) in the form of containment. That's my strategy. We should be using liberations for peace not for war.

Edit: But for the record, I'm all about bashing the fash. But timing is everything. This is not the right time or the right place or the right way to bash the fash. If we're gonna bash the fash we should do it with elegance and style.

[Forestavia]

You are absolutely right North Saitama! And I have proof to back up your statement.

Right here >>>> Click

Ladies and Gentleman, that is a link that you can find on the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators Word Factbook Entry. The link is titled "Raiding". Some us may think about how pathetic a region can be to have over 500 nations and no functional military. But in my opinion, what is more pathetic is the fact that we have needlessly targeted a region with a preemptive so-called "liberation" - a region that has an active founder has been attacked on it's own soil against the will of its people by us. And they don't even have the means to strike back.

As the Honorable North Saitama has already stated. These people are a living abstraction. They've committed no crimes. And it appears that they don't even have the means to commit any action to back up their abstraction.

Honestly, at this point, I don't even think this region is worthy of a condemnation. I am so glad that this repeal is less than 25 approvals away from making quorum. I'm very excited at the prospect of the Security Council taking back its badge of neoliberation. This so-called "liberation" never should have passed to begin with. CCD is not worth our time.

Direct advocacy of Fascism is advocacy of murder and genocide. Such advocacy is a crime in the eyes of the SC.


OK, make up your mind here. On the one hand you whine about us condemning 'over 500 nations' to invasion, then you claim they're so weak they can't possibly pose a threat. Which is it? Either the Confederation is too large to be Liberated, or they're too small to be a threat. Find one argument and stick to it. But the size of the Confederation alone would indicate it's significant enough in numerical terms to be a potential issue for the SC.


But we know you, constantly twisting yourself in knots for the defence of Fascists you are totally NOT sympathetic too:)

First, this so-called "liberation" is the very definition of murder and genocide. The intention behind this neoliberation is to destroy and undermine the self-determination of a sovereign region.
Secondly, we are condemning over 500 nations to invasion and genocide and refugee status.
Thirdly, they are weak and we should not overpower them. The first sentence in that link says:
"The Confederation is currently in the process of setting up an organised raiding force."
They are not even organized enough to be a threat to the world. I hope this is enough to finally convince the world of the insanity of what we are doing in this chamber.

[RiderSyl]

First, this so-called "liberation" is the very definition of murder and genocide.

Stop being ridiculous.

[Imperial Snasdep]

What is going on?

[Forestavia]

First, this so-called "liberation" is the very definition of murder and genocide.

Stop being ridiculous.

I can't help myself. I love being ridiculous. All I'm doing is presenting the facts. This so-called "liberation" is a living breathing example of murder and genocide in the making. And it could potentially effect over 500 nations. Now, the whole point of passing a liberation instead of a condemnation is why? Because a liberation has teeth, right? Okay. What are the teeth? What does that bite look like when Jocospor CTE?