[DRAFT] Repeal "Commend the MT Army"

[Hesskin Empire]

Considering TRF and the MT Army are both commendable organizations, both of which I’ve had the pleasure of working with, we will be voting against and advising the delegate of TCB to do so as well. Their ideology is irrelevant given the excellent work they carry out defeating some of the most oppressive ideologies out there. If that’s the main reason why everyone so against them then take your petty political beliefs elsewhere and stop disguising them in the form of thinly veiled Security Council Resolutions. The SC isn’t for ideological warfare.

You want to talk about ideological warfare, when that is exactly what the MT Army does, and what it was commended for?

I'm not even in this for any ideology; I am only in this because double standards are not justice, and the MT Army is an oppressor that does not deserve praise, especially when they are being praised BECAUSE they are raiders.

Furthermore, these commendations of regions like MT Army, and La Navasse's so-called "neoliberations" earlier this year, are EXACTLY ideological warfare. They certainly weren't because of the regions' actions; even with the regions that were guilty of raiding, the resolutions focused more on ideology than their actions, implying that they were being targeted for purely ideological reasons.

Why are we repealing commendations cause a region that was commended, for its own work, works with another region?
MT Army =/= TRF and I don't see how TRF doing bad things could lead to repealing MT army's comemndation.


I would also like Proof and an example of a region that was not fascist, nazi or in some way allied with fascists/nazis that MT army has raided. I have never seen them do that and when I have suggested to Vippertooth targets he has had me provide proof which he double checks.

GamePlay(raiding and defending) is not black and white. Raiding fascists is ok, according to almost everyone as far as I know, because fascists is an ideology of hatred and domination. MT Army also defends against fascists, they liberate regions that got hit by fascists, nazis and fascist/nazi allies.

I am a Muslim as is a friend of mine and we both have helped in MT/part of MT. MT only targets fascists, nazis and fascist/nazi allies, not Islamic Regions.

I am not asking to repeal this because they are working with less savoury regions; I want to repeal because they are oppressors, who are guilty of acts that would otherwise be condemnable, and do not deserve to be commended for oppression. Raiding fascists is not justice, and should not be commend-worthy.

I support this repeal!
HEIL THE IMPERATOR!!!

Thanks, walking strawman. Even though, to clarify, I am not doing this because I support Fascism or Fascist regions (which I don't; I even mentioned in the repeal that Fascism is an abhorrent ideology); I am doing this because it is unjust to praise an oppressor for acts that would otherwise be condemn-worthy.

You still have not given any proof of any raids that MT has done that are condemn able... The only raids they do are against fascists, which the WA sees as commendable raids since it is against a hateful ideology.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I have no sympathy for fascists. My concern is their support for far-left forces in TRF.

Considering TRF and the MT Army are both commendable organizations, both of which I’ve had the pleasure of working with, we will be voting against and advising the delegate of TCB to do so as well. Their ideology is irrelevant given the excellent work they carry out defeating some of the most oppressive ideologies out there. If that’s the main reason why everyone so against them then take your petty political beliefs elsewhere and stop disguising them in the form of thinly veiled Security Council Resolutions. The SC isn’t for ideological warfare.

Emphasis mine. The Security Council forum is for the open discussion of proposals, it is NOT your safe space. That being said if The MT Army realty is trying to fight oppressive ideologies, then why are they allied with the following regions: North Korea, Korean Peoples Army, and Pyongyang ? These regions celebrate North Korea, which, is an oppressive dictatorship the last time I checked. It seems you can be as oppressive as you want as long as you're left-wing.

[North Saitama]

You still have not given any proof of any raids that MT has done that are condemn able... The only raids they do are against fascists, which the WA sees as commendable raids since it is against a hateful ideology.

They ALL are. The whole point, that you seem to be missing, is that anti-fascist raiding is NOT a good thing, and amounts to invading their regions for simply practising an ideology that you do not approve of. It is ideological warfare, that basically places all regions and nations that follow a certain ideology, even if they just keep to themselves, outside of the protection of the WA, much like the historical concept of an outlaw. And commending MT Army for this only encourages committing as many unprovoked atrocities as possible within the limitations of NS, as long as they are a certain ideology.

If you want to look at it from an in-character perspective, it would be the WA allowing and even applauding unprovoked war crimes and crimes against humanity against certain regions and nations.

[Hesskin Empire]

You still have not given any proof of any raids that MT has done that are condemn able... The only raids they do are against fascists, which the WA sees as commendable raids since it is against a hateful ideology.

They ALL are. The whole point, that you seem to be missing, is that anti-fascist raiding is NOT a good thing, and amounts to invading their regions for simply practising an ideology that you do not approve of. It is ideological warfare, that basically places all regions and nations that follow a certain ideology, even if they just keep to themselves, outside of the protection of the WA, much like the historical concept of an outlaw. And commending MT Army for this only encourages committing as many unprovoked atrocities as possible within the limitations of NS, as long as they are a certain ideology.

If you want to look at it from an in-character perspective, it would be the WA allowing and even applauding unprovoked war crimes and crimes against humanity against certain regions and nations.

As far as I am concerned the majority of the WA sees fascism as bad, considering that it promotes superiority over others, and therefore raiding it is ok. Gameplay(raiding/defending) is not black and white as you seem to be thinking. Raiding random people is seen as bad, defending is good. MT Army raids yes but the people they raid are seen as bad so its ok. You also seem to forget that the MT Army also liberates and defends regions against fascists, nazis and fascist/nazi allies.

[North Saitama]

They ALL are. The whole point, that you seem to be missing, is that anti-fascist raiding is NOT a good thing, and amounts to invading their regions for simply practising an ideology that you do not approve of. It is ideological warfare, that basically places all regions and nations that follow a certain ideology, even if they just keep to themselves, outside of the protection of the WA, much like the historical concept of an outlaw. And commending MT Army for this only encourages committing as many unprovoked atrocities as possible within the limitations of NS, as long as they are a certain ideology.

If you want to look at it from an in-character perspective, it would be the WA allowing and even applauding unprovoked war crimes and crimes against humanity against certain regions and nations.

As far as I am concerned the majority of the WA sees fascism as bad, considering that it promotes superiority over others, and therefore raiding it is ok. Gameplay(raiding/defending) is not black and white as you seem to be thinking. Raiding random people is seen as bad, defending is good. MT Army raids yes but the people they raid are seen as bad so its ok. You also seem to forget that the MT Army also liberates and defends regions against fascists, nazis and fascist/nazi allies.

Even regardless, you are encouraging unprovoked atrocities against regions that might not be doing anything, simply for following an ideology. And claiming that it isn't black and white already reveals that your position is biased and inconsistent, and reveals a double standard.

Furthermore, another problem is that, simply for following an ideology, you are deeming fascists as so bad, that they deserve atrocities against them, even if they don't do anything. They don't even need to even follow the ideology; even roleplaying a Fascist is grounds for becoming an outlaw as far as the WA is concerned.

If all they did was liberate and defend, that would be a different story. The problem is that they don't, and not only engage in unprovoked raiding, but are being praised for unprovoked raiding.

Tell me, why do Fascists not deserve an equal standard of justice, besides the fact that they are fascists?

[Hesskin Empire]

As far as I am concerned the majority of the WA sees fascism as bad, considering that it promotes superiority over others, and therefore raiding it is ok. Gameplay(raiding/defending) is not black and white as you seem to be thinking. Raiding random people is seen as bad, defending is good. MT Army raids yes but the people they raid are seen as bad so its ok. You also seem to forget that the MT Army also liberates and defends regions against fascists, nazis and fascist/nazi allies.

Even regardless, you are encouraging unprovoked atrocities against regions that might not be doing anything, simply for following an ideology. And claiming that it isn't black and white already reveals that your position is biased and inconsistent, and reveals a double standard.

Furthermore, another problem is that, simply for following an ideology, you are deeming fascists as so bad, that they deserve atrocities against them, even if they don't do anything. They don't even need to even follow the ideology; even roleplaying a Fascist is grounds for becoming an outlaw as far as the WA is concerned.

If all they did was liberate and defend, that would be a different story. The problem is that they don't, and not only engage in unprovoked raiding, but are being praised for unprovoked raiding.

Tell me, why do Fascists not deserve an equal standard of justice, besides the fact that they are fascists?

I am obviously biased against fascism since it is an ideology of superiority. I do not believe that raiding against fascists is wrong, and in fact most of the WA seems to agree to this statement, Since the commendation passed in the first place. This is ideological warfare and as such you cannot claim that another side is wrong for what they believe. If you hate what the MT Army does then you should go join Kaiserreich or another fascist region and fight them. The majority WA has deemed fascism as bad and as such I do not think a single proposal would change their minds.

[The Black Party]

Devout support. Hope the repeal goes far.

[Kuriko]

:clap: Devout support. Hope the repeal goes far.

Of course the Fascists support it

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Even regardless, you are encouraging unprovoked atrocities against regions that might not be doing anything, simply for following an ideology.

Lmfao my dude, calm ya tits a bit. No one is committing any "atrocities". We're moving into regions on an online game and taking them over. That's literally it. Take a chill pill with the hyperbole and sensationalist rhetoric.

[Armaros]

Why would you make this proposal? This is gonna get stomped since most people in the World Assembly aren't nazis/fascists or sympathetic towards them. Aside from that, the MT army is commended for fighting nazis/fascists. Which I can't see how that would be bad, since Nazis and fascists see themselves as superior, and would kill/deport/degrade people just because of their race. And you're saying regions with people who think that are ok? And that it is somehow bad to fight them?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Why would you make this proposal? This is gonna get stomped since most people in the World Assembly aren't nazis/fascists or sympathetic towards them. Aside from that, the MT army is commended for fighting nazis/fascists. Which I can't see how that would be bad, since Nazis and fascists see themselves as superior, and would kill/deport/degrade people just because of their race. And you're saying regions with people who think that are ok? And that it is somehow bad to fight them?

The MT army is run by communists, are you saying it's bad to fight against communism?

[Armaros]

Why would you make this proposal? This is gonna get stomped since most people in the World Assembly aren't nazis/fascists or sympathetic towards them. Aside from that, the MT army is commended for fighting nazis/fascists. Which I can't see how that would be bad, since Nazis and fascists see themselves as superior, and would kill/deport/degrade people just because of their race. And you're saying regions with people who think that are ok? And that it is somehow bad to fight them?

The MT army is run by communists, are you saying it's bad to fight against communism?

No, I'm not. Is that relevant here tho? They were commended for fighting nazis and fascists, not for being communist. Also, there might be communists in the region but they don't stand for communism, rather for anti-fascism.

[Hesskin Empire]

The MT army is run by communists, are you saying it's bad to fight against communism?

No, I'm not. Is that relevant here tho? They were commended for fighting nazis and fascists, not for being communist. Also, there might be communists in the region but they don't stand for communism, rather for anti-fascism.

Another good note is that MT Army nor the actual region MT are communist themed. They work with communist but are not communist.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

The MT army is run by communists, are you saying it's bad to fight against communism?

No, I'm not. Is that relevant here tho? They were commended for fighting nazis and fascists, not for being communist. Also, there might be communists in the region but they don't stand for communism, rather for anti-fascism.

It's very relevant because communism killed more people than fascism and yet they get a free pass. While It can be claimed that they stand for a different type of communism, they have embassies with Stalinists, Maoists, and North Korea apologists which are totalitarian forms of communism. On the other hand a democratic region will get raided by the MT Army sometimes over a single embassy with a region they deem fascist.

[Hesskin Empire]

No, I'm not. Is that relevant here tho? They were commended for fighting nazis and fascists, not for being communist. Also, there might be communists in the region but they don't stand for communism, rather for anti-fascism.

It's very relevant because communism killed more people than fascism and yet they get a free pass. While It can be claimed that they stand for a different type of communism, they have embassies with Stalinists, Maoists, and North Korea apologists which are totalitarian forms of communism. On the other hand a democratic region will get raided by the MT Army sometimes over a single embassy with a region they deem fascist.

This is about the proposal, can we please stop with the political debating now? We have both made points that it will just be circles.

On the embassy thing, I don't believe one embassy is enough. To get a target you need proof they are fully aligned with nazis/fascists, and then Vipp and the Elders will double and triple check it. They won't even hit warzones to practice, they only hit nazis/fascists.

[Armaros]

No, I'm not. Is that relevant here tho? They were commended for fighting nazis and fascists, not for being communist. Also, there might be communists in the region but they don't stand for communism, rather for anti-fascism.

It's very relevant because communism killed more people than fascism and yet they get a free pass. While It can be claimed that they stand for a different type of communism, they have embassies with Stalinists, Maoists, and North Korea apologists which are totalitarian forms of communism. On the other hand a democratic region will get raided by the MT Army sometimes over a single embassy with a region they deem fascist.

..what? They don't stand for communism at all. They might hold embassies with stalinists and maoists, which I agree are horrific ideologies. The arguement "communism killed more people then fascism" isn't a really good arguement, as fascism was crushed before it could do more harm. A lot can be said about communism, but not that they have racial superiority or genocide as core ideas.
Edit: floating off topic, sorry. Back to the proposal.

[Uan aa Boa]

The Red Fleet is itself a commended region, so you should perhaps seek to repeal that commendation before arguing that an association with TRF makes other regions unworthy of commendation.

There's nothing in the rules to say that the Security Council can't support, enable and commend anti-fascist raiding, and a majority continue to want to do just that. You're welcome to disagree, but I'm afraid that's democracy.

[North Saitama]

Even regardless, you are encouraging unprovoked atrocities against regions that might not be doing anything, simply for following an ideology. And claiming that it isn't black and white already reveals that your position is biased and inconsistent, and reveals a double standard.

Furthermore, another problem is that, simply for following an ideology, you are deeming fascists as so bad, that they deserve atrocities against them, even if they don't do anything. They don't even need to even follow the ideology; even roleplaying a Fascist is grounds for becoming an outlaw as far as the WA is concerned.

If all they did was liberate and defend, that would be a different story. The problem is that they don't, and not only engage in unprovoked raiding, but are being praised for unprovoked raiding.

Tell me, why do Fascists not deserve an equal standard of justice, besides the fact that they are fascists?

I am obviously biased against fascism since it is an ideology of superiority. I do not believe that raiding against fascists is wrong, and in fact most of the WA seems to agree to this statement, Since the commendation passed in the first place. This is ideological warfare and as such you cannot claim that another side is wrong for what they believe. If you hate what the MT Army does then you should go join Kaiserreich or another fascist region and fight them. The majority WA has deemed fascism as bad and as such I do not think a single proposal would change their minds.

Your hypocrisy is showing, and very blatantly. You claim that I am engaging in "ideological warfare", and that "you cannot claim that another side is wrong for what they believe", when commending raiding fascist regions is EXACTLY ideological warfare, and your position is EXACTLY claiming that another side is wrong for what they believe.

I needn't even continue this discussion, as your hand has been revealed. You are biased against fascists, so you would rather deny them justice, and commend atrocities against them, for merely thinking abhorrent thoughts. They don't even need to act on them; they are guilty as soon as they express them, and bad thoughts deserve bad actions as punishment.

Even regardless, you are encouraging unprovoked atrocities against regions that might not be doing anything, simply for following an ideology.

Lmfao my dude, calm ya tits a bit. No one is committing any "atrocities". We're moving into regions on an online game and taking them over. That's literally it. Take a chill pill with the hyperbole and sensationalist rhetoric.

Atrocities as relative to the game. And, even if it is just a game, it doesn't discount anything I have said, as it still applies to the IC side.

Why would you make this proposal? This is gonna get stomped since most people in the World Assembly aren't nazis/fascists or sympathetic towards them. Aside from that, the MT army is commended for fighting nazis/fascists. Which I can't see how that would be bad, since Nazis and fascists see themselves as superior, and would kill/deport/degrade people just because of their race. And you're saying regions with people who think that are ok? And that it is somehow bad to fight them?

Because it is commending abhorrent actions against mere abhorrent thoughts. And, no, I do not think fascism is okay, but I don't think that they should be subjected to double standards and a denial of justice, for mere thoughtcrime, either. I would rather just ignore fascists and leave them alone, as long as they don't bother anybody else.

The Red Fleet is itself a commended region, so you should perhaps seek to repeal that commendation before arguing that an association with TRF makes other regions unworthy of commendation.

There's nothing in the rules to say that the Security Council can't support, enable and commend anti-fascist raiding, and a majority continue to want to do just that. You're welcome to disagree, but I'm afraid that's democracy.

I don't care who they are associated with. I have established this, already. I think that they are unworthy of commendation because their actions are abhorrent, and commending them encourages these abhorrent actions and the associated hypocrisy and double standards.

Furthermore, just because it is democracy doesn't mean that it is right. A lynch mob is also democratic, but would you call it fair or just?

[Armaros]

Double standards? The general standards simply are: raiding innocent regions who have done nothing wrong is bad, and raiding regions who follow the most abhorrent of ideologies, who think people should be deported or killed for their race, is good. I cannot see how that would be double standards. Raiding the innocent is bad, raiding the guilty is good. It's that simple. See it as punishing the innocent and punishing the guilty. The first is bad, the second is justice.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Why would you make this proposal? This is gonna get stomped since most people in the World Assembly aren't nazis/fascists or sympathetic towards them. Aside from that, the MT army is commended for fighting nazis/fascists. Which I can't see how that would be bad, since Nazis and fascists see themselves as superior, and would kill/deport/degrade people just because of their race. And you're saying regions with people who think that are ok? And that it is somehow bad to fight them?

The MT army is run by communists, are you saying it's bad to fight against communism?

Have you literally ever met a leader of MT Army, or even a member? Hi. I'm one. And I'm very much not a communist. You're making assumptions that just don't work, my man.

[New Excalibus]

Not to hate on all the Fascists and Commies, but the MT Army is doing great at getting rid of all the "Brutal Dictatorship Edgy" type of nations.
Believe me, I'm not voting yes for this.

[North Saitama]

Double standards? The general standards simply are: raiding innocent regions who have done nothing wrong is bad, and raiding regions who follow the most abhorrent of ideologies, who think people should be deported or killed for their race, is good. I cannot see how that would be double standards. Raiding the innocent is bad, raiding the guilty is good. It's that simple. See it as punishing the innocent and punishing the guilty. The first is bad, the second is justice.

You are conflating opinions with actions. That is where the double standard lies; fascists that keep to themselves are doing nobody harm, and are just wallowing around in their own abhorrent opinions. Tell me, how is having an opinion that you don't like a crime worthy of action?

It would be different if they were raiding other regions, and kicking-out natives. Many of MT Army's targets, however, are only targets because they are fascist, and not because they did anything.

[Parcia]

Doesn't matter who is raiding and who is being raided, both should he condemned for lowering them selves so low, and the Security Counsil should give neither any qaurter in their judgement.

[Armaros]

Double standards? The general standards simply are: raiding innocent regions who have done nothing wrong is bad, and raiding regions who follow the most abhorrent of ideologies, who think people should be deported or killed for their race, is good. I cannot see how that would be double standards. Raiding the innocent is bad, raiding the guilty is good. It's that simple. See it as punishing the innocent and punishing the guilty. The first is bad, the second is justice.

You are conflating opinions with actions. That is where the double standard lies; fascists that keep to themselves are doing nobody harm, and are just wallowing around in their own abhorrent opinions. Tell me, how is having an opinion that you don't like a crime worthy of action?

It would be different if they were raiding other regions, and kicking-out natives. Many of MT Army's targets, however, are only targets because they are fascist, and not because they did anything.

They might be merely thinking, yet they will go actively hurt people irl if they get the chance. And you're wrong that they don't do anyone harm: their mere presence and way of thinking offends those who would be "inferior" just because of race or the way they are.

[North Saitama]

You are conflating opinions with actions. That is where the double standard lies; fascists that keep to themselves are doing nobody harm, and are just wallowing around in their own abhorrent opinions. Tell me, how is having an opinion that you don't like a crime worthy of action?

It would be different if they were raiding other regions, and kicking-out natives. Many of MT Army's targets, however, are only targets because they are fascist, and not because they did anything.

They might be merely thinking, yet they will go actively hurt people irl if they get the chance. And you're wrong that they don't do anyone harm: their mere presence and way of thinking offends those who would be "inferior" just because of race or the way they are.

Who says that they will necessarily harm people IRL? At this point, you are accusing them of a potential crime they didn't even commit, nor even necessarily intend to commit, while also claiming guilt by association.

Furthermore, their mere presence can also be ignored. Words are harmless without action. The MT Army's actions, on the other hand, cannot be ignored by the natives of regions they raided in the name of "fighting fascism", as the natives are robbed of control of their regions and even booted.