[DRAFT] Liberate Enadia

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I am unable to take screenshots, due to disability, however I believe that if Thatcher is acting as honourably as he claims he will not dispute this unedited copy-paste.


gvh - 08/29/2017
could you mask me as a commander please
August 30, 2017
gvh - 08/30/2017
please mask me
May 9, 2018
gvh - Yesterday at 9:00 AM
ello
Who in gods name was that diplomat who made the comment you quoted? I'd quite like to know so I can get him gone
Thatcher Whitehall - Yesterday at 9:04 AM
Hey GVH! It's 4AM where I live and as much as I'd love to debate with you right now, I'd like to finish my work and get some sleep. :smiley:
The UDS's statement regarding Enadia? I wrote that.
gvh - Yesterday at 9:05 AM
Understandable. Just message me when you can
Thatcher Whitehall - Yesterday at 9:05 AM
Thanks. :smiley:
gvh - Yesterday at 9:05 AM
though that wasn't a debate question, I want to know who that guy was so I can get rid
though feel free to tell me at a more reasonable time
Thatcher Whitehall - Yesterday at 9:06 AM
Will do. o7
May 10, 2018
gvh - Today at 8:23 AM
Have you found it yet
ClydeBOT - Today at 8:23 AM
Your message could not be delivered because you don't share a server with the recipient or you disabled direct messages on your shared server, recipient is only accepting direct messages from friends, or you were blocked by the recipient.
Only you can see this — delete this message.

I admit. My language was not the most formal; I probably did not use proper parliamentary procedure in my writing. However, I expressed a clear desire to enact change within the foreign office and region of Enadia, as I have expressed later in this thread.

[The Diamond Confederacy]

This may not pass, but I do find this an interesting proposal. In fact, I'm leaning towards supporting it but I do believe there are much more effective ways to actually accomplish the goals of this proposal.

[Latman]

International friends, allies and interested participants.

I am deeply moved by your support and shocked on the waves of ridiculous allegations and attacks towards my region. A region which helped enormously a lot its allies before and plenty of smaller regions let alone the defenders realm.

We are not perfect and our previous President's administration has pissed a lot of sides. During the past 2 months our region was hit by 2 repetitive attacks. Deleting our military's server and even kicking members from our Discord. With the work of our people we rebuilded our Military's server in less than 5 hours.

The second terrorist attack was even worse. The terrorist named Gothikka deleted our roles, channels and kicked more than 70 people from the server many of which were foreign diplomats.

Not even once the EU stopped helping its friends and allies and even providing troops wherever they were needed. The culture of Enadia and it's people. Which share the same values and love for our Democracy and our Institutions were able to overcome to major crisis in less than 16 hours, while many of our partners tried poaching members of our community, even by privately DM'ing them.

I strongly condemn Thatcherites and his stance towards my region, and I am shocked to see that a resolution like this is being drafted to overthrow a legitimate govt of Enadia where its officials were voted in by more than 40 people.

As President of the EU my, and my cabinets work has addressed every major issue evolving our FA and we are doing our best to bring back the dignity of our People. We are happy and acknowledge the important role of AIR and the interested people that not only they didn't interfere within our region, but were kind enough to assist us in the process.

[Nordenvic]

Speaking as a citizen(and MoI) of Enadia, I’m mighty fine with people we have in the government right now. I’m sure our citizens would agree as well. I don’t see what you’ll get from “liberating” our region other than your egos being satisfied.

[United Republic Empire]

I feel for the sake of transparency that it is worth me informing the international community how that conversation went. I sent a direct message to Thatcher, and we had a short conversation; much of this conversation was attempting to find out who the individual who made the crass remark about UDS that he referred to in his statement was.

I will not share direct logs without Thatcher's consent as this is a clear breech of privacy, however he appeared unwilling/unable to provide me with a direct answer. I asked him simply who the Enadian was, as as foreign minister I do not want to trust somebody with such a loose tongue and an undiplomatic attitude with important diplomatic arrangements again. He responded that he was about to go to bed and that he'd tell me later; fair, I thought.
Today I asked him again, having received nothing during the previous day, who the individual who made the crass comment was; I found out that Thatcher had, in fact, blocked me.

Enadia is keen to rebuild our diplomatic relations, and as our foreign minister I am more than willing to spearhead this effort. I know and accept that certain members of our community have behaved less than honourably in the past few months, and I would like to resolve this situation as best I can.
My discord is wellknown: it's gvh#4198. If you have concerns about Enadia, please don't hesitate to contact me. I was not in government during our recent issues, and their is much I don't know; however if I find out about something that makes you think less of us, I shall endeavour to put it right.

I would never ever treat a diplomat in such a way unless something big came up. Something did. A report by a member of the Osiris Fraternal Order was shown to the government of the UDS regarding a very serious RP incident involving Greater Vakolicci Haven. The government of the UDS believed that the actions of GVH were not in keeping with the values of the Union, and that my safety, as a minor, was under threat. The government ordered me to end any offsite contact with you. I would have preferred to send a final notice, but I was forbade by the government from doing so.

For posterity’s sake, the diplomat in question was The United Republic Empire, the World Assembly Delegate of the Enadian Union.

While I have very little background on this issue, Greater Vakolicci Haven's diplomatic and respectable approach to this proposal and towards the juxtaposing, immature liberties Thatcher has taken in defending his stance, I, too, will oppose this proposal unless credible allegations of Enadia's disruptions in the international community surface.

Please reconsider your stance.

My allegations are credible. Please read them.

That highlighted text is false info - I've never been to Osiris nor am I a diplomat - literally scratching my head - like who comes up with this crapola -

How about we get real proof and none of this hearsay talk - I have 3 nations total - 2 reside in Enadia and 1 resides in FNR

Edit- Maybe I read that wrong - but if it is saying that a crass remark was made by me - I'd like to see this evidence and proof as well -

[Fortvento]

Believing so strongly in the superiority of your own morals that you have the right - perhaps even the duty - to force them upon others, is fascism. This proposal is just that.

[Kaboomlandia]

"Liberating" enormous regions with no password and an active founder isn't, never was, and never will be useful. Opposed.

[Yokiria]

For those of you that support this proposal, behind the scenes and here in this thread, thank you. For those of you that don't support it due to a distaste for aggressive liberations, I understand where you're coming from and have no qualms with you or your stance. Also, I have no comment on whatever is going on between Thatcher Whitehall and GVH. I do have some specific comments to address:

This may not pass, but I do find this an interesting proposal. In fact, I'm leaning towards supporting it but I do believe there are much more effective ways to actually accomplish the goals of this proposal.

What "more effective ways"? I would be appreciative if you elaborated.

Believing so strongly in the superiority of your own morals that you have the right - perhaps even the duty - to force them upon others, is fascism. This proposal is just that.

You're redefining fascism just for the sake of labeling my proposal as such. That's really strange to me.

Speaking as a citizen(and MoI) of Enadia, I’m mighty fine with people we have in the government right now.

Speaking as a person of the Enadian Union (MoI aka Minister of Interior), you're mighty fine with the persons in the Enadian Union. I am not surprised.

How about we get real proof and none of this hearsay talk - I have 3 nations total - 2 reside in Enadia and 1 resides in FNR

It was outlined in the OP and subsequently explained by others that the meat of this proposal cannot be discussed on-site. Please go back and read.

[Latman]

So because we're from the EU, our word has no value? And the people of behind the scenes, are well known experts of the everyday life of Enadia, including you?

[United Republic Empire]

Not about your proposal - from where Thatcher is accusing me - I requested that he post proof of what he is saying I did - I do admit I must of read his initial accusation wrong because he is either saying I caused trouble in Osiris (Somewhere I've never been nor knew about til today) or him saying I bad mouthed UDS with a "crass remark" - (not sure if I did or not - but I am up for him proving me wrong).

[Lenlyvit]

Not about your proposal - from where Thatcher is accusing me - I requested that he post proof of what he is saying I did - I do admit I must of read his initial accusation wrong because he is either saying I caused trouble in Osiris (Somewhere I've never been nor knew about til today) or him saying I bad mouthed UDS with a "crass remark" - (not sure if I did or not - but I am up for him proving me wrong).

He's referring to the crass remark against UDS, not Osiris. GVH is the one he's referring to when he speaks of Osi, so yeah you got that mixed up a bit. I don't know what it was, I don't particularly care too much. Probably best to bring this spat to private channels.

[Yokiria]

So because we're from the EU, our word has no value? And the people of behind the scenes, are well known experts of the everyday life of Enadia, including you?

Members of a government saying that government is fine in the face of claims that it is not fine? Those words have no value.

You will not find a statement that those from the EU say nothing of value in general, nor one about anyone being an "expert on the everyday life of Enadia". You needn't refute claims that were never made.

Not about your proposal - from where Thatcher is accusing me

Understood. Apologies for the mix-up.

[Relfa]

I like the idea of this proposal and I am for its goal. However, the wording of this looks awful, I can't vote for this proposal with the reasons mentioned on it. With this current proposal, my vote would be against. Maybe, with a better wording, I can express my support for this.

[Fortvento]

Believing so strongly in the superiority of your own morals that you have the right - perhaps even the duty - to force them upon others, is fascism. This proposal is just that.

You're redefining fascism just for the sake of labeling my proposal as such. That's really strange to me.

I'm sure the definition of fascism is different from the one I gave, but I'm not redefining it. Believing in one's moral superiority and forcing it on others is a keystone of fascism, and this proposal is doing it.

[South Asians]

The only goal of this proposal is to raid a region. I am against raiders that's why i am against this proposal. Enadian government is taking necessary steps to improve their reputation.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I find it rather odd that this proposal is continuing, if I'm honest...and their's a reason for that.
I made a very public offer yesterday for all concerned parties to bring their concerns to me. I'm uninvolved in the original scandals and I'm in a good position to make sure these concerns are addressed.

Not one person has contacted me with their concerns about Enadia, which leads me to believe they are not as pressing as they claim. If you can tell me otherwise, and you do have pressing complaints about Enadia, I accept telegrams and discord. It's gvh#4198.

[Latman]

I find it rather odd that this proposal is continuing, if I'm honest...and their's a reason for that.
I made a very public offer yesterday for all concerned parties to bring their concerns to me. I'm uninvolved in the original scandals and I'm in a good position to make sure these concerns are addressed.

Not one person has contacted me with their concerns about Enadia, which leads me to believe they are not as pressing as they claim. If you can tell me otherwise, and you do have pressing complaints about Enadia, I accept telegrams and discord. It's gvh#4198.

Not just you. Nobody in Enadia is involved in any scandal. Everyone responsible for the previous drama, is gone. And our govt is open to discuss and reassure the interested parties of today's Enadia situation

[Crystalsummer]

While I understand what everyone is saying, I've changed a lot. I believe we should let Latman, and Enadia have time to fix their issues here in the NS community. Being blacklisted in itself is a fair punishment. I know what it is like being black listed. This gave me the motivation to improve myself and my region. I just feel that we should be professional and let Enadia take care of their region. Latman and his region have treated me good. It will take them a long time to get off the black list. Let's give them that opportunity. Thank you and that's all I'm saying on this topic.

[The Federal Government of Iowa]

Speaking as a citizen(and MoI) of Enadia, I’m mighty fine with people we have in the government right now. I’m sure our citizens would agree as well. I don’t see what you’ll get from “liberating” our region other than your egos being satisfied.

As a citizen of Enadia as well, I agree. All traitors to our government no longer reside in our region.

[The Noble Thatcherites]

Sending recruitment telegrams to other regions is scummy and irritating,

Indeed. For your information, sending mass telegrams like that one, to all UCRs with the intent to recruit, qualifies as poaching. Poaching is widely looked down upon by the gameplay community. The telegram in question actually violates the Arnhelm Declaration of Recruitment Standards, a historic and widely accepted declaration that outlines that recruitment between UCRs is never permissible without reasonable justification such as a gameplay conflict. What the government did was wrong. The Enadian Union's World Assembly Delegate even agreed that what they did was wrong and stated that it was a loophole that they took full advantage of. Let me be very clear. What the Enadian government did was wrong and should never be repeated if the Enadian Union expects any sort of respect from their fellow UCRs.

Kicking people on your own discord is ridiculous and annoying, but again, not an act that poses any sort of threat to the international community

You, my friend, seem to have a very hard time listening. You've been chanting your dialogue for so long that you've come to blindly believe it at any price—you've come to ignore any other damning evidence that's been presented to you. I strongly encourage you to re-read what I wrote earlier. What you've said here, simple isn't true.

These points and your further reasoning are unworthy of passing a full-fledged, aggressive liberation, and your uncordial tone in arguing otherwise fails to do anything in reinforcing your stance.

Please elaborate mate. I've presented facts and backed up those facts with evidence. You have presented rhetoric and have backed it up with your emotions.

But I anticipate seeing the conversation that took place between you and GVH, and would like to know why you felt it appropriate to block GVH - if what he said was true and that you did indeed block him.

Again, you clearly aren't listening. I stated this earlier. My government, the government of The Union of Democratic States, ordered me to end communications with TGVH for his alarming activities, and I followed the order. I can't tell you what TGVH did on-site, but I'd be happy to show you the evidence on Discord. Thatcher Whitehall #2163

I believe that if Thatcher is acting as honourably as he claims he will not dispute this unedited copy-paste.

How on Earth could I possibly dispute the copy-paste. That was an exact copy of our conversation, lol. You'll see that, despite being up at 4:00 AM, I was acting fairly and diplomatically.

The terrorist named Gothikka deleted our roles, channels and kicked more than 70 people from the server many of which were foreign diplomats.

Might I remind the international community that the crasher in question, Gothikka, was the sitting Vice President of the Enadian Union. If nothing else, this attack highlights the regions severe lack of vetting and security.

I strongly condemn Thatcherites and his stance towards my region, and I am shocked to see that a resolution like this is being drafted to overthrow a legitimate govt of Enadia where its officials were voted in by more than 40 people.

That isn't how the Security Council works, mate. Security Council Resolutions don't overthrow legitimate governments, they remove any delegate imposed password on the target region, and prevent a password being imposed in the future by any delegate of that region. For further reading on liberations, Latrovia, I'd check out this guide: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=218040

That highlighted text is false info - I've never been to Osiris nor am I a diplomat - literally scratching my head - like who comes up with this crapola

TGVH's question wasn't exactly articulated clearly. At first, I thought he wanted to know who wrote the UDS's statement. I told his that I did. But after further reading, it now appeared that he wanted to know the official that made the undiplomatic remarks cited in the UDS's statement. That diplomat was indeed the United Republic Empire. My apologies for any confusion.

Edit- Maybe I read that wrong - but if it is saying that a crass remark was made by me - I'd like to see this evidence and proof as well -

Before the Enadian Union's government kicked Amassador Kade and I (who both held official diplomatic VISAs and held embassies with the EU) out, he made a pastebin of his conversation on the official EU diplomatic chat. I'd have to be allowed back onto the EU discord in order to point to the evidence. Otherwise, it should still be there, given that the EU's government didn't try and cover it up.

I made a very public offer yesterday for all concerned parties to bring their concerns to me. I'm uninvolved in the original scandals and I'm in a good position to make sure these concerns are addressed.

Your history as someone who has blacklisted from the OFO for a very serious offense, doesn't exactly make you a beacon of international friendship.

Not just you. Nobody in Enadia is involved in any scandal. Everyone responsible for the previous drama, is gone.

Latrovia. This comment is false and you know it. You were the one responible for the banishment of the UDS's diplomats.

Being blacklisted in itself is a fair punishment. I know what it is like being black listed. This gave me the motivation to improve myself and my region.

Nothing would be closer to the truth. From what I've seen, after my region had its diplomatic fallout with the FNR, the region accepted the facts and worked to improve itself. Which it has. I would advise that Enadia adopt the same doctrine. Enadia needs to accept the facts, accept responsibility, and move on.

NOTICE: For anyone who might quote this comment, please use spoilers, as not to clutter the thread.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Sending recruitment telegrams to other regions is scummy and irritating,

Indeed. For your information, sending mass telegrams like that one, to all UCRs with the intent to recruit, qualifies as poaching. Poaching is widely looked down upon by the gameplay community. The telegram in question actually violates the Arnhelm Declaration of Recruitment Standards, a historic and widely accepted declaration that outlines that recruitment between UCRs is never permissible without reasonable justification such as a gameplay conflict. What the government did was wrong. The Enadian Union's World Assembly Delegate even agreed that what they did was wrong and stated that it was a loophole that they took full advantage of. Let me be very clear. What the Enadian government did was wrong and should never be repeated if the Enadian Union expects any sort of respect from their fellow UCRs.

Kicking people on your own discord is ridiculous and annoying, but again, not an act that poses any sort of threat to the international community

You, my friend, seem to have a very hard time listening. You've been chanting your dialogue for so long that you've come to blindly believe it at any price—you've come to ignore any other damning evidence that's been presented to you. I strongly encourage you to re-read what I wrote earlier. What you've said here, simple isn't true.

These points and your further reasoning are unworthy of passing a full-fledged, aggressive liberation, and your uncordial tone in arguing otherwise fails to do anything in reinforcing your stance.

Please elaborate mate. I've presented facts and backed up those facts with evidence. You have presented rhetoric and have backed it up with your emotions.

But I anticipate seeing the conversation that took place between you and GVH, and would like to know why you felt it appropriate to block GVH - if what he said was true and that you did indeed block him.

Again, you clearly aren't listening. I stated this earlier. My government, the government of The Union of Democratic States, ordered me to end communications with TGVH for his alarming activities, and I followed the order. I can't tell you what TGVH did on-site, but I'd be happy to show you the evidence on Discord. Thatcher Whitehall #2163

I believe that if Thatcher is acting as honourably as he claims he will not dispute this unedited copy-paste.

How on Earth could I possibly dispute the copy-paste. That was an exact copy of our conversation, lol. You'll see that, despite being up at 4:00 AM, I was acting fairly and diplomatically.

The terrorist named Gothikka deleted our roles, channels and kicked more than 70 people from the server many of which were foreign diplomats.

Might I remind the international community that the crasher in question, Gothikka, was the sitting Vice President of the Enadian Union. If nothing else, this attack highlights the regions severe lack of vetting and security.

I strongly condemn Thatcherites and his stance towards my region, and I am shocked to see that a resolution like this is being drafted to overthrow a legitimate govt of Enadia where its officials were voted in by more than 40 people.

That isn't how the Security Council works, mate. Security Council Resolutions don't overthrow legitimate governments, they remove any delegate imposed password on the target region, and prevent a password being imposed in the future by any delegate of that region. For further reading on liberations, Latrovia, I'd check out this guide: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=218040

That highlighted text is false info - I've never been to Osiris nor am I a diplomat - literally scratching my head - like who comes up with this crapola

TGVH's question wasn't exactly articulated clearly. At first, I thought he wanted to know who wrote the UDS's statement. I told his that I did. But after further reading, it now appeared that he wanted to know the official that made the undiplomatic remarks cited in the UDS's statement. That diplomat was indeed the United Republic Empire. My apologies for any confusion.

Edit- Maybe I read that wrong - but if it is saying that a crass remark was made by me - I'd like to see this evidence and proof as well -

Before the Enadian Union's government kicked Amassador Kade and I (who both held official diplomatic VISAs and held embassies with the EU) out, he made a pastebin of his conversation on the official EU diplomatic chat. I'd have to be allowed back onto the EU discord in order to point to the evidence. Otherwise, it should still be there, given that the EU's government didn't try and cover it up.

I made a very public offer yesterday for all concerned parties to bring their concerns to me. I'm uninvolved in the original scandals and I'm in a good position to make sure these concerns are addressed.

Your history as someone who has blacklisted from the OFO for a very serious offense, doesn't exactly make you a beacon of international friendship.

Latrovia. This comment is false and you know it. You were the one responible for the banishment of the UDS's diplomats.

Nothing would be closer to the truth. From what I've seen, after my region had its diplomatic fallout with the FNR, the region accepted the facts and worked to improve itself. Which it has. I would advise that Enadia adopt the same doctrine. Enadia needs to accept the facts, accept responsibility, and move on.

NOTICE: For anyone who might quote this comment, please use spoilers, as not to clutter the thread.

I can't help but be confused again, Thatcher. I know, I must be really dimb and you're probably getting sick of me being so stupid, but I do need to ask you about certain of your points.

Recruiting from UCRs. Yes, people don't like it, and yes it's not generally regarded as a good thing to do. I get that. When am I going to see liberate Westphalia? Or liberate soviet democracy? Their was a region which recruited from us a few months ago, and us alone: oddly enough though...we didn't liberate it. Because we don't do that. Because, you know...when someone is sending out recruitment telegrams you don't like, what you do is you complain loudly to the government...maybe you don't work with them again, that's your choice; however you really don't waste the WA's time with this.

As for kicking people from our discord. These actions were, as you very well know, for the most part committed by individuals who are not current members of our regional government. The fact you persist in using them as part of your argument indicates to me that you are, at the moment, looking at a region which is improving rapidly from the poor state it found itself in a few weeks ago, and you are rather desperately looking for reasons to persist in your aggressive liberation.
I can't help but wonder what your personal grudge is? You're currently the only person veraciously arguing in favour of this proposal, the proposer isn't exactly promoting its cause as much as you are. If you have a grudge against Enadia, and you'd like to talk it through, it's gvh#4198. But you already know that.

[The Noble Thatcherites]

Indeed. For your information, sending mass telegrams like that one, to all UCRs with the intent to recruit, qualifies as poaching. Poaching is widely looked down upon by the gameplay community. The telegram in question actually violates the Arnhelm Declaration of Recruitment Standards, a historic and widely accepted declaration that outlines that recruitment between UCRs is never permissible without reasonable justification such as a gameplay conflict. What the government did was wrong. The Enadian Union's World Assembly Delegate even agreed that what they did was wrong and stated that it was a loophole that they took full advantage of. Let me be very clear. What the Enadian government did was wrong and should never be repeated if the Enadian Union expects any sort of respect from their fellow UCRs.

You, my friend, seem to have a very hard time listening. You've been chanting your dialogue for so long that you've come to blindly believe it at any price—you've come to ignore any other damning evidence that's been presented to you. I strongly encourage you to re-read what I wrote earlier. What you've said here, simple isn't true.

Please elaborate mate. I've presented facts and backed up those facts with evidence. You have presented rhetoric and have backed it up with your emotions.

Again, you clearly aren't listening. I stated this earlier. My government, the government of The Union of Democratic States, ordered me to end communications with TGVH for his alarming activities, and I followed the order. I can't tell you what TGVH did on-site, but I'd be happy to show you the evidence on Discord. Thatcher Whitehall #2163

How on Earth could I possibly dispute the copy-paste. That was an exact copy of our conversation, lol. You'll see that, despite being up at 4:00 AM, I was acting fairly and diplomatically.

Might I remind the international community that the crasher in question, Gothikka, was the sitting Vice President of the Enadian Union. If nothing else, this attack highlights the regions severe lack of vetting and security.

That isn't how the Security Council works, mate. Security Council Resolutions don't overthrow legitimate governments, they remove any delegate imposed password on the target region, and prevent a password being imposed in the future by any delegate of that region. For further reading on liberations, Latrovia, I'd check out this guide: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=218040

TGVH's question wasn't exactly articulated clearly. At first, I thought he wanted to know who wrote the UDS's statement. I told his that I did. But after further reading, it now appeared that he wanted to know the official that made the undiplomatic remarks cited in the UDS's statement. That diplomat was indeed the United Republic Empire. My apologies for any confusion.

Before the Enadian Union's government kicked Amassador Kade and I (who both held official diplomatic VISAs and held embassies with the EU) out, he made a pastebin of his conversation on the official EU diplomatic chat. I'd have to be allowed back onto the EU discord in order to point to the evidence. Otherwise, it should still be there, given that the EU's government didn't try and cover it up.

Your history as someone who has blacklisted from the OFO for a very serious offense, doesn't exactly make you a beacon of international friendship.

Nothing would be closer to the truth. From what I've seen, after my region had its diplomatic fallout with the FNR, the region accepted the facts and worked to improve itself. Which it has. I would advise that Enadia adopt the same doctrine. Enadia needs to accept the facts, accept responsibility, and move on.

NOTICE: For anyone who might quote this comment, please use spoilers, as not to clutter the thread.

I can't help but be confused again, Thatcher. I know, I must be really dimb and you're probably getting sick of me being so stupid, but I do need to ask you about certain of your points.

Recruiting from UCRs. Yes, people don't like it, and yes it's not generally regarded as a good thing to do. I get that. When am I going to see liberate Westphalia? Or liberate soviet democracy? Their was a region which recruited from us a few months ago, and us alone: oddly enough though...we didn't liberate it. Because we don't do that. Because, you know...when someone is sending out recruitment telegrams you don't like, what you do is you complain loudly to the government...maybe you don't work with them again, that's your choice; however you really don't waste the WA's time with this.

As for kicking people from our discord. These actions were, as you very well know, committed by individuals who are not current members of our regional government. The fact you persist in using them as part of your argument indicates to me that you are, at the moment, looking at a region which is improving rapidly from the poor state it found itself in a few weeks ago, and you are rather desperately looking for reasons to persist in your aggressive liberation.
I can't help but wonder what your personal grudge is? You're currently the only person veraciously arguing in favour of this proposal, the proposer isn't exactly promoting its cause as much as you are. If you have a grudge against Enadia, and you'd like to talk it through, it's gvh#4198. But you already know that.

Firstly, would you mind editing that post and putting the spoiler tags around my quote, please?

When Westphalian Founder, The House of Petain, sent a telegram to all WA members, I contacted them afterwards on discord and explained the issue with the telegram. They apologized and promised not to send such a telegram again. This interaction showed me that, unlike Enadia, which has yet to abolish it's selfish and unethical recruitment system, Westphalia clearly has a strong commitment to the UCR community.

I am good friends with Siege (a.k.a. Ex Patrian SSR). On May 1st, he came to me and told me that he wanted to recruit from Enadia. I told him no multiple times and explained to him that it was poaching. I vehemently opposed his childish idea. Despite my protests, he went along with it anyway.

You seem to think that my argument was in support of the liberation. It wasn't. My argument primarily focused on dispelling the false narratives that you and many others in this thread have been spreading.

I don't have a personal grudge against anyone in Enadia. I've presented a whole load of facts while you have persisted in using your emotions to back up your rhetoric. The last thing a person does when they run out of facts or evidence (or has none in the first place) is go in for personal attacks. Next time, please present a fact-based argument.

[United Republic Empire]

Edit- Maybe I read that wrong - but if it is saying that a crass remark was made by me - I'd like to see this evidence and proof as well -

Before the Enadian Union's government kicked Amassador Kade and I (who both held official diplomatic VISAs and held embassies with the EU) out, he made a pastebin of his conversation on the official EU diplomatic chat. I'd have to be allowed back onto the EU discord in order to point to the evidence. Otherwise, it should still be there, given that the EU's government didn't try and cover it up.

Kade wasn't kicked from my knowledge or review of audit logs - but - to clarify - it wasn't the EU gov. that kicked you. It was the President acting on his own that kicked you.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1025621 -

by the way these are discord screenshots of Neo kicking thatcher and me talking to thatcher about it. If kade did indeed get banned - that would of been Gothikas doing. Both of these individuals (Neo and Gothikka) are no longer in Enadia. I'm also sure that we fixed all the bans caused by Gothikka and revoked both the manage roles and ban members permissions on discord for gov. officials - ( slow improvements ) leaving the option to only the EU moderation team on discord.

Side note: Does anyone have any good mod discord bots that would help any and all discord servers out there in combating vulgarity on the servers. Humans can be online 24/7 but a bot can be.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I can't help but be confused again, Thatcher. I know, I must be really dimb and you're probably getting sick of me being so stupid, but I do need to ask you about certain of your points.

Recruiting from UCRs. Yes, people don't like it, and yes it's not generally regarded as a good thing to do. I get that. When am I going to see liberate Westphalia? Or liberate soviet democracy? Their was a region which recruited from us a few months ago, and us alone: oddly enough though...we didn't liberate it. Because we don't do that. Because, you know...when someone is sending out recruitment telegrams you don't like, what you do is you complain loudly to the government...maybe you don't work with them again, that's your choice; however you really don't waste the WA's time with this.

As for kicking people from our discord. These actions were, as you very well know, committed by individuals who are not current members of our regional government. The fact you persist in using them as part of your argument indicates to me that you are, at the moment, looking at a region which is improving rapidly from the poor state it found itself in a few weeks ago, and you are rather desperately looking for reasons to persist in your aggressive liberation.
I can't help but wonder what your personal grudge is? You're currently the only person veraciously arguing in favour of this proposal, the proposer isn't exactly promoting its cause as much as you are. If you have a grudge against Enadia, and you'd like to talk it through, it's gvh#4198. But you already know that.

Firstly, would you mind editing that post and putting the spoiler tags around my quote, please?

When Westphalian Founder, The House of Petain, sent a telegram to all WA members, I contacted them afterwards on discord and explained the issue with the telegram. They apologized and promised not to send such a telegram again. This interaction showed me that, unlike Enadia, which has yet to abolish it's selfish and unethical recruitment system, Westphalia clearly has a strong commitment to the UCR community.

I am good friends with Siege (a.k.a. Ex Patrian SSR). On May 1st, he came to me and told me that he wanted to recruit from Enadia. I told him no multiple times and explained to him that it was poaching. I vehemently opposed his childish idea. Despite my protests, he went along with it anyway.

You seem to think that my argument was in support of the liberation. It wasn't. My argument primarily focused on dispelling the false narratives that you and many others in this thread have been spreading.

I don't have a personal grudge against anyone in Enadia. I've presented a whole load of facts while you have persisted in using your emotions to back up your rhetoric. The last thing a person does when they run out of facts or evidence (or has none in the first place) is go in for personal attacks. Next time, please present a fact-based argument.

Quote editing would genuinely take me ages, screen reader problems, I'm sure you must understand.
I don't believe we're continuing to recruit from UCRs. I know, for example, that the next recruitment campaign, on Monday, will be from me; it'll go to all new and refounded nations and won't touch UCRs. This is again proof positive of an Enadia looking to reform from the scandal that occurred previously.
As for the discord ban, I don't believe you are still banned. If you are, send me a tg and I'll sort that out for you, I don't see any reason why you should be banned from our server.

[The Noble Thatcherites]

Kade wasn't kicked from my knowledge or review of audit logs - but - to clarify - it wasn't the EU gov. that kicked you. It was the President acting on his own that kicked you.

My bad. I was under the impression that the President of a region was the leading figure of the government. I understand that the individual in question is gone now, but such important powers probably shouldn't have been bestowed upon them in the first place. In such a shakey region as Enadia, with a history of rogue government officials, I'd advise building an OOC moderation team that focuses solely on administrative matters.

these are discord screenshots of Neo kicking thatcher and me talking to thatcher about it. If kade did indeed get banned - that would of been Gothikas doing. Both of these individuals (Neo and Gothikka) are no longer in Enadia. I'm also sure that we fixed all the bans caused by Gothikka and revoked both the manage roles and ban members permissions on discord for gov. officials - ( slow improvements ) leaving the option to only the EU moderation team on discord.

I'm glad that facts are being recognized and problems in security are being fixed. I commend you for your effort.

Quote editing would genuinely take me ages, screen reader problems, I'm sure you must understand.
I don't believe we're continuing to recruit from UCRs. I know, for example, that the next recruitment campaign, on Monday, will be from me; it'll go to all new and refounded nations and won't touch UCRs. This is again proof positive of an Enadia looking to reform from the scandal that occurred previously.
As for the discord ban, I don't believe you are still banned. If you are, send me a tg and I'll sort that out for you, I don't see any reason why you should be banned from our server.

I forgot about your disabilities. Spoilers aren't 100% necessary.

It's extremely heartening to hear that Enadia has stopped poaching. It means a lot to me. Given that Enadia has leaders that have been playing this game longer than I have, I wish such a rudimentary change would have come months ago but now is certainly better than never.

I probably won't be returning to the Enadian discord sever, but I appreciate the offer. I've seen enough disparaging remarks about my region.