[DEFEATED] Condemn Democratic Empire of Romania

[Jocospor]

The Security Council:

Defining democracy as "a form of government in which the people can vote for representatives to govern the state on their behalf";

Understanding that the practise of democracy is both common and beloved by many nations and regions, with one such nation being Democratic Empire of Romania (hereinafter DER), along with the region it founded, The New Mappers Union (hereinafter TNMU);

Assured in this assertion by the publication of TNMU Charter, stating that the region seeks to uphold "direct democracy", "equality", and "free thaught";

Alarmed, however, that direct contradictions arise in relation to this charter and the actual behaviour of DER, and consequently TNMU;

Aware that the World Assembly delegate of most democratic regions wields executive powers, and that the delegate of TNMU, by the authority of DER, does not;

Disappointed to note that, as Founder of TNMU, DER retains the right to relieve elected government officials if it sees fit without the support of any other TNMU nation/s, be those nation/s governmental or otherwise;

Horrified to learn that several supposedly elected nations that serve as TNMU's government are secretive possessions of DER;

Disgusted that the autocratic DER has, in effect, falsely promoted TNMU's government as democratic, and has lied and continues to lie to TNMU's nations and the international community;

Concerned that the efforts of DER will, if unchecked, portray the practise of democracy in a damning light;

Fearing the rise of authoritarian regimes that masquerade as democracies, inspired by the actions of DER;

Predicting that said regimes would counteract the intentions of the Security Council and destabilise the world;

Convinced that the emergence of such regimes is entirely possible, considering TNMU operates as an international influence, holding 117 embassies;

Resolved therefore that preventive measures must be taken to ensure regional and worldwide stability in this matter, and that DER should be the first to answer for its abuses of power;

Hereby condemns The Great Founder of TNMU of Democratic Empire of Romania.

[Ransium]

It’s not in the queue you’re only at 70 some endorsements.

[Jocospor]

It’s not in the queue you’re only at 70 some endorsements.

OOC: Is there another category to put this under then? Or is there not a category for pending endorsements. New to WA proposals - this was just a convenient fluke. Sorry everyone!

[Solorni]

Typically [SUBMITTED] I believe.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Typically [SUBMITTED] I believe.

Yea, what is a '[PENDING ENDORSEMENT]'. A cooler word though, would be [INQUORATE].

[Willania Imperium]

Being autocratic isn't worthy of condemnation.

[Jocospor]

Being autocratic isn't worthy of condemnation.

We agree with you on that. However, this nation pretends to be something it is not - and that is dangerous to the security of NationStates.

[Aureumterra]

Being autocratic isn't worthy of condemnation.

We agree with you on that. However, this nation pretends to be something it is not - and that is dangerous to the security of NationStates.

“whoah whoah whoa… what is this “Nationstates” thing?”

[Jocospor]

We agree with you on that. However, this nation pretends to be something it is not - and that is dangerous to the security of NationStates.

“whoah whoah whoa… what is this “Nationstates” thing?”

(OOC: )

[Aureumterra]

“whoah whoah whoa… what is this “Nationstates” thing?”

(OOC: )

OOC: You can’t use “Nationstates” as part of your claim, since it is not ICly referred to as a computer simulation, also, how is one nation lying about its government going to harm the whole of the community? IRL North Korea does it, and no one seems to bother

[Jocospor]

(OOC: )

OOC: You can’t use “Nationstates” as part of your claim, since it is not ICly referred to as a computer simulation, also, how is one nation lying about its government going to harm the whole of the community? IRL North Korea does it, and no one seems to bother

OOC: "NationStates" never appears in the proposal, instead the term used is "world". And on the second point: DER's deception is a model that could be used by, let us say, more intelligent nations, who could go on to become leaders of regions that threaten the existence of others. Not only is DER lying to its nations, it's lying to the world, and that has the potential to end in calamity.

[Ransium]

(OOC: )

OOC: You can’t use “Nationstates” as part of your claim, since it is not ICly referred to as a computer simulation, also, how is one nation lying about its government going to harm the whole of the community? IRL North Korea does it, and no one seems to bother

Using the word “NationStates” is perfectly legal and is a long standing precedent and also mentioned as such in the rules compendium: viewtopic.php?p=3378497&sid=d439a4e0c01f5fa6841a28497ea1c21a#p3378497

I know it’s hard to know what you don’t know, but please don’t make authoritative pronouncements about what is and isn’t legal if you don’t know yourself.

[Willania Imperium]

Being autocratic isn't worthy of condemnation.

We agree with you on that. However, this nation pretends to be something it is not - and that is dangerous to the security of NationStates.

How? Nations are free to choose how they RP. If they want to be secretly autocratic, then they can be one. There's no harm to NS. Besides, if you're going to condemn someone, at least make the target sound worthy of being considered.

[Jocospor]

We agree with you on that. However, this nation pretends to be something it is not - and that is dangerous to the security of NationStates.

How? Nations are free to choose how they RP. If they want to be secretly autocratic, then they can be one. There's no harm to NS. Besides, if you're going to condemn someone, at least make the target sound worthy of being considered.

Again, we agree with you. Nations can choose to RP however they want. That doesn't mean that RP can't be dangerous to the rest of NationStates. A Condemnation is entirely feasible here. The quorum is almost met!

[Lenlyvit]

This thing is in queue. As always, without forum drafting you have no support from me. Furthermore, the target nation isn't condemn worthy in my mind, they can do whatever they want in the region they created. Some would hope that the founder of a Democratic region wouldn't do these things, yet it is still not worthy of being condemned by the international community.

Edit: Ill grudgingly admit that it seems well written, so kudos to you for that.

[Aureumterra]

Condemnations are only given to the worst of the worst, lying about a government isn’t at par with say, testing chemical weapons on civilian centers

[Kaboomlandia]

It's well-written, but the nominee is the founder of the region so they can do whatever they want with the region. Also no forum draft = no support.

[Democratic Empire of Romania]

Maybe it's stupid, but am I allowed to comment on it ?

[Tinhampton]

Maybe it's stupid, but am I allowed to comment on it ?

You are able, and indeed encouraged, to respond to criticism and comments on your proposal (as I always do), although it may be a bit too late to make changes now that you've submitted it...

[Democratic Empire of Romania]

Maybe it's stupid, but am I allowed to comment on it ?

You are able, and indeed encouraged, to respond to criticism and comments on your proposal (as I always do), although it may be a bit too late to make changes now that you've submitted it...

Alright. I have only one comment: The proposal was solely made to make my region surrender to Jocospor's region. I have received support and I was told that I represent a real threat to them if it led to a condemnation. Again, Jocospor has recruited in my region and has spread lies about it. This condemnation shall be voted 'Against', as Jocospor has created 'Lex Magnus Corpus', which has been designated as the 'International Sindicate Against Democracy'.

[Tinhampton]

Gaaaah, I thought I was replying to Jocospor instead! Anyway, I suppose this contains a wee bit too much filler text for my liking, as harsh as the proposal itself might feel...

[Reformed High Reiserland]

A nation that "pretends to be something it is not" is definitely not worthy enough for condemnation. Every nation can pretend however they want. Furthermore, it is not "dangerous" to the security of NationStates.

[Jocospor]

A nation that "pretends to be something it is not" is definitely not worthy enough for condemnation. Every nation can pretend however they want. Furthermore, it is not "dangerous" to the security of NationStates.

Let us pretend for a moment that a large region of many WA nations pretended to be totally peaceful. Would you feel aggrieved if that region suddenly raided yours? That's right, with no warning. See, everyone KNOWS of raider regions; that's because raider regions have the guts to stand up to the international community and shout, "Yes, we're raiders!" But if a region, whilst pretending to be totally harmless, was quietly rigging WA proposals and stirring up international tensions, how would you feel? We think you would feel disenfranchised, and we intend to protect you against that.

Nations of the WA, the point of this resolution is to put a precedent in place that makes an example of all those who act covertly against the international interest of peace and prosperity. As the proposal outlines, and as telegram communications further outlined, DER's naive behaviour could very well inspire more competent nations to dangerous ends.

[Aureumterra]

A nation that "pretends to be something it is not" is definitely not worthy enough for condemnation. Every nation can pretend however they want. Furthermore, it is not "dangerous" to the security of NationStates.

Let us pretend for a moment that a large region of many WA nations pretended to be totally peaceful. Would you feel aggrieved if that region suddenly raided yours? That's right, with no warning. See, everyone KNOWS of raider regions; that's because raider regions have the guts to stand up to the international community and shout, "Yes, we're raiders!" But if a region, whilst pretending to be totally harmless, was quietly rigging WA proposals and stirring up international tensions, how would you feel? We think you would feel disenfranchised, and we intend to protect you against that.

Nations of the WA, the point of this resolution is to put a precedent in place that makes an example of all those who act covertly against the international interest of peace and prosperity. As the proposal outlines, and as telegram communications further outlined, DER’s naive behaviour could very well inspire more competent nations to dangerous ends.

1. You don’t have my support, since you didn’t forum draft

2. No, Condemmnations are for the worst of the worst, making an example is not on the SC agenda

[Jocospor]

It's well-written, but the nominee is the founder of the region so they can do whatever they want with the region. Also no forum draft = no support.

We wonder why "no forum draft = no support". To us, that seems incredibly counter-productive to the integrity of the WA. This proposal was legally recognised by delegates of the World Assembly and the, well, 'higher authorities that be'. We did not see the need to post the proposal on the forums. We suspect if this had happened the proposal would have been altered. We also suspect that proposals are truer to themselves if they bypass forum drafting. We encourage forum drafting for nations who are concerned that their proposal will not be deemed legal. In the case of our proposal, we knew it would be deemed legal, so we saw no need to have it 'proofread'.