NATION

PASSWORD

[ABANDONED] Repeal "Liberate Nazi Europa"

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

Would you support this repeal?

Yes
7
30%
Yes, but only on the condition of a replacement bill
0
No votes
No because I support La Navasse's liberation
13
57%
No because this repeal is badly written
3
13%
 
Total votes : 23

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Cute Puppies
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Founded: Apr 12, 2018
Ex-Nation

[ABANDONED] Repeal "Liberate Nazi Europa"

Postby Cute Puppies » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:08 am

Repeal "Liberate Nazi Europa"
Category: Repeal | Resolution: SC#246 | Proposed by: Cute Puppies


"Liberate Nazi Europa" shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

The Security Council,

Applauding the resolution's author, La Navasse, for trying a strong message towards fascist and nationalist regions through his "neoliberations";

However,

Recognizing the true purpose of a liberation is to, as explained in the "Guide to the Security Council," combat "region destruction carried out behind a password" usually when a "founderless region has been invaded and passworded";

Further recognizing that the "Guide to the Security Council" believes that, if there is no password on a region, no risk that a password may be imposed soon, or if there is something in the region worth protecting, a liberation would not be appropriate;

Understanding that there was no risk of a password being imposed on the region, there is nothing of value or historical importance that was at risk of being lost prior to the time of liberation, and that the region's founder continues to be active today;

Unconvinced that a region's ideology and microaggressions towards small and inactive regions is grounds for liberation;
  1. Noting that this clause cited the region, Dank Memes, as one of the victims of Nazi Europa despite Dank Memes, a region originally led by La Navasse, worked with Nazi Europa on good terms before being invaded by Blitzkrieg;
Further unconvinced that La Navasse's self-proclaimed "neo-liberations," or what he construes as liberations made on the grounds of a region's fascist, communist, nationalist, and/or nazi ideals, are not considered by Security Council standards as proper liberations and serve to mock the Security Council's integrity;

Disappointed that La Navasse failed to bring attention to Nazi Europa's more atrocious acts beyond vague clauses on spreading its ideology, and military interference's with small regions;

Disappointed that the liberation failed to do what it intended, and instead was lauded as a joke and a trophy within Nazi Europa, with founder, Nazi Europa Administrator, saying at the time of the resolution's passage, "Hey look at that, their liberation is even more pointless. Not going anywhere. Dare you to make me,";

Desiring to make way for a resolution that more effectively rectifies what "Liberate Nazi Europa" failed to do;

Hereby repeals SC#246, "Liberate Nazi Europa"
Last edited by Frisbeeteria on Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:50 am, edited 10 times in total.
Reason: title edit changing [CLOSED] to [ABANDONED] in keeping with standard format

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Cute Puppies
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Founded: Apr 12, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Cute Puppies » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:08 am

Repeal "Liberate Nazi Europa"
Category: Repeal | Resolution: SC#246 | Proposed by: Cute Puppies


Liberate Nazi Europa shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

The Security Council,

Applauding the resolution's author, La Navasse, for sending a strong message towards fascist and nationalist regions;

However,

Recognizing the true purpose of a liberation is to, as explained in the "Guide to the Security Council," combat "region destruction carried out behind a password" usually when a "founderless region has been invaded and passworded";

Further recognizing that the "Guide to the Security Council" believes that, if there is no password on a region, no risk that a password may be imposed soon, or if there is something in the region worth protecting, a liberation would not be appropriate;

Understanding that there was no password on the region prior to the passage of the liberation of Nazi Europa nor any indication that a password would be instituted;

Believing that there was nothing of value and historical importance in the region that was at risk of being lost prior to the time of the liberation;

Unconvinced that a region's ideology and microaggressions towards small and inactive regions is grounds for liberation;
  1. Noting that this clause cited the region, Dank Memes, as one of the victims of Nazi Europa despite Dank Memes, a region originally led by La Navasse, worked with Nazi Europa on good terms before being invaded by Blitzkrieg;
Further unconvinced that La Navasse's self-proclaimed "neo-liberations," or what he construes as liberations made on the grounds of a region's fascist, communist, nationalist, and/or nazi ideals, are not considered by Security Council standards as proper liberations;

Fearful that passing liberation on the sole grounds of a region's ideology defeats the purpose of a liberation, terribly inflates the significance and value of a liberation, and sets a bad precedent for future resolutions;

Noting that the founder of Nazi Europa continues to be relatively active in the region, essentially defeating the purpose of the liberation;

Disappointed that the liberation failed to do what it intended, and instead was lauded as a joke within Nazi Europa, with the founder, Nazi Europa Administrator, saying at the time of the resolution's passage, "Hey look at that, their liberation is even more pointless. Not going anywhere. Dare you to make me,";

Hereby repeals SC#246, "Liberate Nazi Europa"
Last edited by Cute Puppies on Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Indo-Malaysia
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Postby Indo-Malaysia » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:35 pm

Against.

I despise the notion of offensive Liberations, and believe non of the crap by La Navasse should be on the books in the first place.

This is the only one that shouldn't be repealed. Even though La Navasse awarded Nazi Europa SC Recognition and legitimacy, a repeal in quorum would only do the same.
This region is better dying without fanfare and drums.
Last edited by Indo-Malaysia on Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kaboomlandia
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Postby Kaboomlandia » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:41 pm

Against. I think we've devoted more than enough spilled ink to useless liberations against foundered Nazi regions that we don't need to give them even more publicity reversing a mistake.

EDIT: that sentence was ugly
Last edited by Kaboomlandia on Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:36 pm

I don't support this proposal. Captain Woodhouse made a quip that stuck in my head on this: "La Navasse's ability to recognize a toilet began and ended with NE". I think he's correct on this. Aimdar-Goomdar's ability to recognise fascists may be fundamentally unsound, but it reminds me that a broken clock is right twice a day.

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Cute Puppies
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Postby Cute Puppies » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:07 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:I don't support this proposal. Captain Woodhouse made a quip that stuck in my head on this: "La Navasse's ability to recognize a toilet began and ended with NE". I think he's correct on this. Aimdar-Goomdar's ability to recognise fascists may be fundamentally unsound, but it reminds me that a broken clock is right twice a day.

The biggest issues I have with this liberation are that it is improper for a liberation proposal and sets a bad precedent for future liberation (a condemnation would be more suiting), the symbolic meaning behind the liberation is moot being that it's very minimal and fails to explain why the NE is a malevolent region beyond how they "terrorized" very inactive and small regions, the hypocrisy of La Navasse because he worked with NE for a time, and that it had no practical benefit for the WA. The NE saw this as a joke and used the liberation as a trophy of sorts. It gave them more attention, infamy, and more of a reason to be active.
Last edited by Cute Puppies on Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Stalker
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Postby The Stalker » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:48 am

Cute Puppies wrote:The biggest issues I have with this liberation are that it is improper for a liberation proposal and sets a bad precedent for future liberation


It doesn't set a precedent, none of La Navasse's others will pass. Nazi Europe and Kaiserreich are exceptions to the rules because they're large Nazi regions. Folks aren't gonna start liberating regions out of "precedent" just because these two exceptions have been.

Edit:
Strongly Opposed.
Last edited by The Stalker on Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Arkhall
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Postby Arkhall » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:56 am

I dislike La Viscera, but this repeal is not necessary. Against.

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Lavan Tiri
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Postby Lavan Tiri » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:45 am

Agreed.
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Cute Puppies
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cute Puppies » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:14 pm

OOC: I understand that Nazi Europa should, for good reason, not be given the spotlight with another bill. However, I strongly believe that this repeal is necessary for various reasons as previously stated.

While I understand that La Navasse's liberations, especially given his unpopular reputation, may not strongly influence proposal writers and act as a strong precedent in the Security Council, I believe many can agree that his "neoliberations" are mockery to what liberations stand for in the SC, and are, in essence, a glorified name for a condemnation. As I've pointed out in my first draft, "Liberate Nazi Europa" fails to qualify as what the Guide to the Security Council considers a proper liberation proposal. One of the greatest reasons why I am in favor of repealing "Liberate Nazi Europa" is because this liberation is an insult to the integrity and dignity of the Security Council.

Furthermore, in his resolution, La Navasse fails to provide the grounds for a liberation beyond minimal and vague clauses. When putting attention to Nazi Europa's abhorrent actions towards others and the WA, La Navasse dedicates two clauses to its fascist ideology with little elaboration, and another which discussed "the region's Nazi military and their interferences" in very small, inactive regions with, again, little elaboration.

Finally, there are some concerning clauses that I find to be blatant hyperbole. In the resolution, La Navasse emphasized Nazi Europa's supposed "open endorsement and promotion of Nazis" and its "open use of Nazi imagery and attributes throughout the region." While I strongly condemn Nazism in real life and ICly, and I openly acknowledge that the region is infamous for its disturbances and raids in the international community, I don't believe they openly spread and propagate their ethnocentric, divisive, Nazi views. Not only does La Navasse fail to even vaguely describe how Nazi Europa spreads its Nazi views upon others, but I find it to be blatantly untrue. I've looked through the Nazi Europa RMB and found that the moderators are very strict on what's not allowed on the wall and will suppress inappropriate comments. For example, RMB moderator Kidderminster suppressed many, including one saying that one of the things Hitler did wrong was "didn't kill enough" people. And, after the liberation passed, some members commented on the futility of it, criticizing some of its most biased and exaggerated points. Member The New Repub1ic of Rome said "It's not like we are forcing people to stay, we aren't forcing out beliefs on anyone."
Last edited by Cute Puppies on Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kaboomlandia
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Postby Kaboomlandia » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:25 pm

I get what you're saying. Navasse isn't a good author. However, if you were to magically substitute out the liberation currently on NE for one that was well-written and by a different author, I think reactions would be more positive. I'm not totally on board with repealing this if it's just going to lead to another liberation - they have enough words devoted to them lately.

And this might be an unpopular opinion, but I think their on-site suppression of RMB posts could be in part to avoid violating site rules against hate speech. Can't speak with any authority for that though so it's just a thought.

I'm with Stalker and IA on this - there's no precedent that's in danger of being set regarding misused liberations against foundered regions, Navasse just happened to pick a region to liberate that would have been passed if the resolution speech was a recipe for chocolate-chip cookies.
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Cute Puppies
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Postby Cute Puppies » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:22 pm

Kaboomlandia wrote:I get what you're saying. Navasse isn't a good author. However, if you were to magically substitute out the liberation currently on NE for one that was well-written and by a different author, I think reactions would be more positive. I'm not totally on board with repealing this if it's just going to lead to another liberation - they have enough words devoted to them lately.

And this might be an unpopular opinion, but I think their on-site suppression of RMB posts could be in part to avoid violating site rules against hate speech. Can't speak with any authority for that though so it's just a thought.

I'm with Stalker and IA on this - there's no precedent that's in danger of being set regarding misused liberations against foundered regions, Navasse just happened to pick a region to liberate that would have been passed if the resolution speech was a recipe for chocolate-chip cookies.


OOC: Personally, I would find it more suiting to condemn NE rather than liberate them.
While I have considered making a replacement bill, I would like to see what people think of this repeal and the idea of repealing the liberation and making a replacement. I may add a poll for that.
In the meantime, I'll try to compile some research of NE and do some drafting off-forum to make a proposal which seeks to rectify La Navasse's liberation's problems.

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Prydania
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Postby Prydania » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:04 pm

Strongly against. Nazi Europa deserves all the scorn you can heap on them, and I find Cute Puppies' efforts disingenuous.

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Captain Woodhouse
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Postby Captain Woodhouse » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:44 pm

Cute Puppies wrote:Recognizing the true purpose of a liberation is to, as explained in the "Guide to the Security Council

Cute Puppies wrote:Further recognizing that the "Guide to the Security Council" believes


Guide
A thing that helps someone to form an opinion or make a decision or calculation. 

A book, document, or display providing information on a subject or about a place. ‘a comprehensive guide to British hotels and restaurants’ —Oxford Dictionary


It's nice you live and die by a guide. Few players give a shit about sticking to a guide when a legal option is available to address self-avowed Nazis who use NationStates to lure kids to offsite Nazi indoctrination. Legality is the thing. Preventative, pre-emptive, offensive liberation—whatever you want to call it—is legal and addressed here.

Cute Puppies wrote:Noting that the founder of Nazi Europa continues to be relatively active in the region, essentially defeating the purpose of the liberation;


Every noteworthy Nazi and fascist region has fallen. Inactivity isn't all that kills regions. Players have remained active right up to the moment they were puppet swept or DOS. Negligence happens. We're talking about a player who has been negligent in the past. He lost NAZI EUROPE and his RP region, The Capital Wasteland. He damn near lost Nazi Europa once already. NE's founder lost his main nation and grappled with Moderation to have it restored. He made bad decisions that resulted in the loss of his entire officer corps. NE no longer has a military or an identifiable government owing to its founder's lamentable decision-making. And you want the SC to believe NE is safe as houses and an Offensive Lib is pointless?

Cute Puppies wrote:Disappointed that the liberation failed to do what it intended


The Lib did exactly what was intended. Nazi Europa is marked as a toilet that will be bereft of a flapper when its founder goes down the drain.

Cute Puppies wrote:and instead was lauded as a joke within Nazi Europa, with the founder, Nazi Europa Administrator, saying at the time of the resolution's passage, "Hey look at that, their liberation is even more pointless.


Hope you had something good to wash down the load of false bravado you swallowed. Nazi Europa Administrator was as sad and embarrassed as a dandelion in a rose show over losing NAZI EUROPE in such a careless manner. Public and private face were quite different. If memory serves, when Nazi Europa Administrator finally made a public statement, he ran with GN's bs about losing a condo and acquiring a palace, or some such.

Nazi Europa Administrator put on the same act when all of his officers left. Good riddance. You were all pieces of shit anyway.

Cute Puppies wrote:Finally, there are some concerning clauses that I find to be blatant hyperbole.


You're kidding, right? Blatant hyperbole and the SC are like peas and carrots.

Cute Puppies wrote:Not only does La Navasse fail to even vaguely describe how Nazi Europa spreads its Nazi views upon others, but I find it to be blatantly untrue.


You're right. The blatant truth: Nazi Europa is a gateway to offsite Nazi education. NE's founder has made a point of directing pretty much all convo to Discord.

From NE's recruitment TG

✠ Join our Discord Server and participate in one of our many discussions about politics, history, modern events, and many other topics. Discord is an offsite chat medium and thus is out of the reaches of game rules. The real discussions go down there.


NE's founder invites new members to an offsite venue to circumvent game rules. When that's included in a recruitment TG bullet, it's a main attraction. The sickening crud I viewed on NE's Discord flowed from every channel and made me physically ill. Good luck persuading folks to ignore regions that use the game to lure kids to Discord servers to be educated by adult Nazis, and in some instances, bullied for speaking out against the content on the server.

Cute Puppies wrote:OOC: Personally, I would find it more suiting to condemn NE rather than liberate them.


Presumably, you're familiar enough with the SC to know that giving NE a Condemnation badge is like giving a dog a box of Milk-bones. I'm thinking Prydania is correct about disingenuous efforts.

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Cute Puppies
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cute Puppies » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:45 am

Draft 2 is up.

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Chricoma
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Postby Chricoma » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:56 pm

I support
I tried this once before though and it wasn't approved, then again I can't campaign for sh*t
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Isvataan
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Postby Isvataan » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:00 pm

Support Repeal

I can agree with everyone that Nazism should go to the pits of Hades for the evil it is. However, I never even heard of this region and ones to similar to it. Never came into old region before I came to my current region and even then, never really saw anything. And it seems to me that they keep to themselves to their own regions, never saw a nazi raider nor a nazi promoter coming to regions. So why the heck did they even get attention, its just giving them power. Not only that but other regions that have different ideologies are minding their own business, not raiding nor promoting within other regions. They too are getting bloody attention because some triggered sjw got offended and wants to "liberate" them. Look, if the sjw has a stick up its butt about this stuff, then at the very least do it right and draft condemnation, not a liberation.

Again, I don't like Nazism, Communism and other zealot ideologies and I honestly prefer they never existed. However, if they're minding their own business and contend to themselves, then there's literally no harm. Instead, if there needs to be any liberations or condemnations, it might as well be raider regions. That, my dear friends, is what our attentions need to be at. Not at ideologies.
Last edited by Isvataan on Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Killer Kitty
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Postby Killer Kitty » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:21 pm

Firmly against.

The liberation of Nazi Europe lead to that regions' refounding, something I am a mild fan of. Should the founder of Nazi Europa CTE, keeping this Liberation open will allow them to be struck immediately while they are still off guard, before they can't throw up a password and call in reenforcements.

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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:54 am

No
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The Noble Thatcherites
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Postby The Noble Thatcherites » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:32 am

Against.
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Willania Imperium
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Postby Willania Imperium » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:25 pm

Hell no.

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Postby New Ex Patria » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:41 am

Ha, good luck.
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Cute Puppies
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cute Puppies » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:17 am

OOC: After seeing the mess that is the repeal of Liberate KR, I have decided to close this drafting thread and instead dedicate my time to the repeal and replacement of National Economic Freedoms. Thank you to everyone who has offered constructive criticism and given their opinion on the proposal.
Last edited by Cute Puppies on Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.


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