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[DEFEATED] Repeal: Liberate Kaiserreich

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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Krualstiken
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 64
Founded: Feb 10, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Krualstiken » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:13 am

RiderSyl wrote:
Arkhall wrote:Yes, it fucking does.

If it did then your region wouldn't have been Liberated in the first place.
The humor defense isn't saving anyone from having their comments used against them if they're deemed too offensive.
The sooner you accept that's the case instead of whining about it, the sooner you can combat it.

(Arkhall here. Doing stuff on Krualstiken, don't want to change accounts.)

I'm not actually in KR. Not my region, I personally couldn't care less what happened to it. I'm pretty sure I'm banned from their Discord.

What I do care about are lies, evidence manipulation and misinterpretation, and personal vendettas swaying a democratic process.

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Nullite
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Posts: 19
Founded: Nov 30, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nullite » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:40 am

Arkhall wrote:
Prydania wrote:And, to repeat, "just jokes, brah!" no longer plays as a justification for trivializing genocide.

Yes, it fucking does. Dark humor is still humor, regardless of if you don't like it, regardless of if you find it offensive. Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it any less of a joke between the people involved. If they find it funny, amusing, or humorous, and intended it to be a joke, it's a joke. Simple as that.

I could say something like "Anyone who dissents against the government deserves to be dressed like a baby and forced to parade around while being pelted with eggs". Within my dumb group of friends, that's a joke, no?

Of course, that doesn't mean you can't find it offensive. You can if you want to. There's also this neat little feature about the internet, where you can simply stop looking at something. If you don't want to be involved with KR, then don't. Just look away, let them make their dumb jokes, and we can all carry on with our lives instead of wasting time on this useless prattle.


What I don't understand is how one can hate a group so much that when that group makes a joke, of any kind, it is assumed that the joke is unacceptable. Where did freedom of speech go?
Supporting this repeal wholeheartedly.

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RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 3802
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:41 am

Nullite wrote:Where did freedom of speech go?


There is no freedom of speech on NS.
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Arkhall
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 189
Founded: Feb 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Arkhall » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:57 am

Nullite wrote:unacceptable. Where did freedom of speech go?


It's free speech, so I can post whatever I like here, right?

Ahahahaha! Hahaha! Free speech! No, it's not. I run this web site, see, so you have to play by my rules. It's like my own Father Knows Best state.

Ransium wrote:If being dirty minded was against site rules I'd be DOS.
Hatterleigh wrote:Sandwiches are a social construct.
Last Plains wrote:I've been given limitless power and I'm in a bad mood.
The New California Republic wrote:Nietzsche is just laughable, it reads like tabloid trash.
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Isvataan
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 19
Founded: Mar 09, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Isvataan » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:03 pm

Support Repeal

Tired of these recent sjw and pc liberations

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Lord Dominator
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1540
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Lord Dominator » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:13 pm

Strongly opposed, as I have been to every other repeal attempt

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Willania Imperium
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Posts: 1235
Founded: Feb 06, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Willania Imperium » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:29 pm

As for every other repeal to this and other fascist regions, hell no.

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Dwarfpolis
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Posts: 259
Founded: Oct 12, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dwarfpolis » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:53 am

Willania Imperium wrote:As for every other repeal to this and other fascist regions, hell no.


KR has more leftists in it than the 2 people caught making controversial remarks half a year ago on discord, how can it be fascist?
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Syberis
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Posts: 199
Founded: Jan 21, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Syberis » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:44 am

Strongly opposed. The GP Community explicitly listed, multiple times over the last year and change, why KR was being seen the way they were. Instead of changing anything, they doubled down.
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New Ex Patria
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Posts: 50
Founded: Sep 01, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby New Ex Patria » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:55 am

This may just be the resolution I'm the most vehemently against in recent SC history. :blink:
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Forestavia
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Posts: 71
Founded: Oct 06, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Forestavia » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:11 am

IN FAVOR!
As with the Femdom Empire Repeal, this repeal has the potential to correct a grave error. It is on our shoulders to obliterate this offensive neoliberation from our records. The KAISERREICH neoliberation was the action that got me more involved with SC affairs to begin with. It was that resolution, that neoliberation, that fake liberation, that started us down this path of destruction.

We owe it to the natives of KAISERREICH to repeal this so-called "liberation". By refusing to repeal it we will continue to assault natives on their own lands by chipping away at their regional sovereignty and their right to self-determination in the event that their founder, Scansinia, ceases to exist.

It is an absolute outrage that so many are already lining up against this repeal. They refuse to see the error of their ways. We are supposed to be a respectable world government body. How about we act like it? How about from here on out we begin allowing people to live on their own lands in freedom? How about we stop the absurd practice of "liberating" regions from control over themselves?

We have an obligation to pass this repeal! We have an obligation to nearly 260 nations who live on KAISERREICH lands to repeal this fake and phony liberation. They don't want us there. And quite frankly we have no right to stick our nose in their affairs. They would prefer to be left alone. This so-called "liberation" was a mistake to begin with! Now it's about time we fix the mess we originally created. We were the aggressor when we passed the fake liberation and we, the Security Council, will continue to be the aggressor until the day we undo our shameful actions.

Offensive neoliberations are not in the best interests of the World Assembly nor do they serve the interests of nations throughout our world. Please vote in favor of this repeal if you believe in peace, harmony, and goodwill.

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The Rich Port
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33958
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Rich Port » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:23 am

Image

The Rich Port votes against.

As the primary regulatory apparatus over the nations that subscribe themselves and expect only benefits from the WA, the WA reserves the right to regulate it's member nations and their proprietary assets, whether those assets are owned directly or indirectly, ignoring any pathetic attempts at subterfuge.

I would like to remind the very person who submitted this proposal that they themselves are a WA member, and attempting to opt out of any consequences of being a WA member are frankly foolish and confused. The fascists and Nazis are essentially asking for special protections and special treatment.

If the WA condemns the practice of fascism and Nazism through a majority vote, then it is the purview of the WA to police fascism and Nazism as it sees fit, by the same democratic right.

Perhaps if fascists and Nazis were to overpower those that oppose it, then perhaps they may repeal regulations against fascists and Nazis. Until that point, Kaisserreich is under the regulatory will of the WASC.

The "origin" of the WA's stigma against Nazis having "no clear catalyst" is patently preposterous and factually untrue. Territorial and economic encroachments against nations deemed "weak and useless" are a primary characteristic of fascist dogma.
Last edited by The Rich Port on Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Heimatia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 46
Founded: Oct 31, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Heimatia » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:31 am

Heimatia and the region of Alouisa will be abstaining from voting on this issue, as it appears the Status Quo Delegate Squad has already levied their word.
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Washingtonian Republic
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 13
Founded: Dec 06, 2016
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Washingtonian Republic » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:47 am

Pergamon wrote:Against. Regions like K-Reich do not deserve to be able to hunker down behind a password - and once the founder CTE's we're coming for them.

Honest to God, this purely pathetic and disgusting. Your motives are ideological, nothing more. This fallacious crusade against “fascism” is a scapegoat, used to justify the “liberation”, “condemnation” etc. of a region that holds different philosophical views.
Last edited by Washingtonian Republic on Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Isvataan
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 19
Founded: Mar 09, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Isvataan » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:00 am

Forestavia wrote:IN FAVOR!
As with the Femdom Empire Repeal, this repeal has the potential to correct a grave error. It is on our shoulders to obliterate this offensive neoliberation from our records. The KAISERREICH neoliberation was the action that got me more involved with SC affairs to begin with. It was that resolution, that neoliberation, that fake liberation, that started us down this path of destruction.

We owe it to the natives of KAISERREICH to repeal this so-called "liberation". By refusing to repeal it we will continue to assault natives on their own lands by chipping away at their regional sovereignty and their right to self-determination in the event that their founder, Scansinia, ceases to exist.

It is an absolute outrage that so many are already lining up against this repeal. They refuse to see the error of their ways. We are supposed to be a respectable world government body. How about we act like it? How about from here on out we begin allowing people to live on their own lands in freedom? How about we stop the absurd practice of "liberating" regions from control over themselves?

We have an obligation to pass this repeal! We have an obligation to nearly 260 nations who live on KAISERREICH lands to repeal this fake and phony liberation. They don't want us there. And quite frankly we have no right to stick our nose in their affairs. They would prefer to be left alone. This so-called "liberation" was a mistake to begin with! Now it's about time we fix the mess we originally created. We were the aggressor when we passed the fake liberation and we, the Security Council, will continue to be the aggressor until the day we undo our shameful actions.

Offensive neoliberations are not in the best interests of the World Assembly nor do they serve the interests of nations throughout our world. Please vote in favor of this repeal if you believe in peace, harmony, and goodwill.


Agreed, the council is suppose to be a respectable government and have legitmate power. Instead, these recent liberations unfortunaly show the council is a laughing stock to all the nations in nationstates as a special kind and snowflake group.

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Razzle Dazzle
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Posts: 66
Founded: Jan 23, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Razzle Dazzle » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:05 am

Washingtonian Republic wrote:
Pergamon wrote:Against. Regions like K-Reich do not deserve to be able to hunker down behind a password - and once the founder CTE's we're coming for them.

Honest to God, this purely pathetic and disgusting. Your motives are ideological, nothing more. This fallacious crusade against “fascism” is a scapegoat, used to justify the “liberation”, “condemnation” etc. of a region that holds different philosophical views.

Ah yes, the crusade against fascism isn't really about fascism, it's about ideology! Tell me, what philosophical views does Pergamon have that conflicts with those of KReich?
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Apostate
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Posts: 21
Founded: Mar 09, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Bleh

Postby Apostate » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:18 pm

Hello.

The region is not Nazi, Nor Fascist, no matter how often the lie is repeated.

There is a real simple proof of such, so simple It sort of baffles me why this has not been discussed. Enrollment in a political party is not part of NS game-play. We are using an ecological fallacy to attempt to describe attitudes and or comments within an off site device. Not an actual, honest to goodness worldview. Game-Play is an important word here. Nat-Soc, Alt Right, Communism, or Fascism are not choices or "earn-able" government types within the game apparatus. Right wing utopia, Capitalist Paradise, Father Knows Best...etc are. While I can understand folks getting their emotions up over perceived "hate", again were are talking subjective rhetoric here and not actual actions or beliefs. Its role play within a role play region and as some folks have said, while the vast majority of members find it in poor taste the Region as a whole values free speech in these off site, Non-NS programs.

Using Nationstates devices, such as the Security Council, to "punish" "label" "warn" or "protect others" from the typewritten word in another venue is pretty silly. Now obviously, this is my home region and I care for it and my gaming within; I am going to defend it. But I truly do find those voting for this type of pure rubbish to be fulfilling the actual title that is being imposed on us...as so often is the case in a "moral crusade", the crusaders often become the very thing they hate. Close minded with brainwashed ideas replacing actual intellectual criticism.

Now do not get me wrong, I am sure plenty of the people voting to falsely label our region are quite bright. But this is less about politics and more about the ability to game in a manner consistent with how a region would like to game. As another player promised, the entirety of GCR's and large UCR's would vote against us...does this not strike one as the suppression, the punishment, the isolation of a discriminating attitude that is so loudly and proudly denounced by a self described "left leaning population"?

Again, The Crusader becoming the Oppressor.

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Kaboomlandia
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Posts: 7175
Founded: May 22, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kaboomlandia » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:24 pm

It's been a known fact for three years that KReich harbours Nazi/fascist players. Hell, their original Reich Chancellor was named Nazi Empire of Neo Prussia. They either used to be or still are buddy-buddy with Nazi Europa. There is open evidence that they freely allow Holocaust jokes on their public Discord. If they aren't Nazis, they're doing an absolutely horrible job of convincing people that they aren't.

And organizations that preach an ideology that was built on hatred really don't deserve to be left alone.
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Kurnugia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 503
Founded: Feb 21, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kurnugia » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:34 pm

Forestavia wrote: We have an obligation to nearly 260 nations who live on KAISERREICH lands to repeal this fake and phony liberation. They don't want us there. And quite frankly we have no right to stick our nose in their affairs. They would prefer to be left alone. This so-called "liberation" was a mistake to begin with! Now it's about time we fix the mess we originally created. We were the aggressor when we passed the fake liberation and we, the Security Council, will continue to be the aggressor until the day we undo our shameful actions.
.

No, we don't. KR is more than happy to infringe on other region's sovereignty. Setting aside from the fash or not fash argument, they have forfeited the right to sovereignty by the very act of doing infringing on others.
Last edited by Kurnugia on Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Apostate
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 21
Founded: Mar 09, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Apostate » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:50 pm

Kurnugia wrote:
Forestavia wrote: We have an obligation to nearly 260 nations who live on KAISERREICH lands to repeal this fake and phony liberation. They don't want us there. And quite frankly we have no right to stick our nose in their affairs. They would prefer to be left alone. This so-called "liberation" was a mistake to begin with! Now it's about time we fix the mess we originally created. We were the aggressor when we passed the fake liberation and we, the Security Council, will continue to be the aggressor until the day we undo our shameful actions.
.

No, we don't. KR is more than happy to infringe on other region's sovereignty. Setting aside from the fash or not fash argument, they have forfeited the right to sovereignty by the very act of doing infringing on others.


I believe one of the reactions to a NS game play issue selection is appropriate here. "[nation] eye for an eye policy to justice leaves everyone blind. Or something. Forgive the terrible paraphrase. "You do x so we will do x back to you so you know how wrong it is." Cringe.
“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.”

What a man really says when he says that someone else can be persuaded by force, is that he himself is incapable of more rational means of communication.

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Kurnugia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 503
Founded: Feb 21, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kurnugia » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:12 pm

Apostate wrote:
Kurnugia wrote:No, we don't. KR is more than happy to infringe on other region's sovereignty. Setting aside from the fash or not fash argument, they have forfeited the right to sovereignty by the very act of doing infringing on others.


I believe one of the reactions to a NS game play issue selection is appropriate here. "[nation] eye for an eye policy to justice leaves everyone blind. Or something. Forgive the terrible paraphrase. "You do x so we will do x back to you so you know how wrong it is." Cringe.

Where did I say raiding was per se wrong?
Last edited by Kurnugia on Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.
sometimes i legitimately have no idea why you chose defending org
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also Nakari:
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Hessere
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Posts: 67
Founded: Oct 14, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hessere » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:40 pm

I need to stop using my horrible rhetoric, so instead I'll just say against in accordance with TWP.
For the newcomers to this game frequenting the forums, I suggest you keep your head down, and learn how to talk here without sounding like- well- you know- noobs. I had to be blunt, not that I learned this from experience or whatever.
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Forestavia
Attaché
 
Posts: 71
Founded: Oct 06, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Forestavia » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:47 pm

Kurnugia wrote:
Forestavia wrote: We have an obligation to nearly 260 nations who live on KAISERREICH lands to repeal this fake and phony liberation. They don't want us there. And quite frankly we have no right to stick our nose in their affairs. They would prefer to be left alone. This so-called "liberation" was a mistake to begin with! Now it's about time we fix the mess we originally created. We were the aggressor when we passed the fake liberation and we, the Security Council, will continue to be the aggressor until the day we undo our shameful actions.
.

No, we don't. KR is more than happy to infringe on other region's sovereignty. Setting aside from the fash or not fash argument, they have forfeited the right to sovereignty by the very act of doing infringing on others.


Then condemn them. Don't liberate them from themselves against their will. Condemn them if they have infringed on others. Don't let the Security Council sink to the level of raiding. We are above that.

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Estonland
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 54
Founded: Mar 29, 2017
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Estonland » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:49 pm

Estonland fully supports the repeal, as I think there is no sizeable evidence that Kaiserreich isn't Nazi/Fascist in any way nor condones the said extremism, except for anectodal and semi-legitimate evidence such as Neo-Prussia.
It should be noted that Neo-Prussia has been notably absent for a long time, and the Konstitution from her age has been reformed.
As a member of Kaiserreich's internal security force, the RSP, I can confirm that any posts condoning extremist ideologies, be it left or right wing, are being punished accordingly in our Discord.
Furthermore, despite some citizens being extremist indeed, it would be extremist on the other side of the spectrum to expel them just for that reason. Kaiserreich doesn't condone their ideologies in any way, just that they are citizens, and that demographic includes a lot of people from all around the political spectrum; from me and Molvaniia as communists to Centre and to Christian Democracy
Full Support on the resolution

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Kurnugia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 503
Founded: Feb 21, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kurnugia » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:10 pm

Forestavia wrote:
Kurnugia wrote:No, we don't. KR is more than happy to infringe on other region's sovereignty. Setting aside from the fash or not fash argument, they have forfeited the right to sovereignty by the very act of doing infringing on others.


Then condemn them. Don't liberate them from themselves against their will. Condemn them if they have infringed on others. Don't let the Security Council sink to the level of raiding. We are above that.

You mean being toothless? suuuuure that sounds sensible!
Last edited by Kurnugia on Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sometimes i legitimately have no idea why you chose defending org
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also Nakari:
aAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH

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