[DEFEATED] Repeal: Liberate Kaiserreich

[Kurnugia]

Condemnations are just shiny badges. Thanks to Lenlyvit's innovation, Liberations have proven to be the punishments that Condemnations have failed to be.

Lenny’s poached lib from la navasse, who pioneered the trial with a kaiserreich holding....the canary in the coal mine.

Some folks lack courage to stride out on their own. And some folks used Nazi regions in days gone by to support their former regions, and now are sponsored by memes to see what happens.

It’s all silly and rhetorical. I am glad kaiserreich is such a threat to the NS world to need so much attention! Our roleplay, politics and such are quite the global threat. And don’t give me the “hate speech”bit....so circular....yellow circles even. “I hate hate speech so let’s stop people from hating” My Lord. What terrible, awful logic.

Just remember, ask not for whom the bell tolls....

Slippery-Slope and you say we are the ones with a terrible logic :^)

[RiderSyl]

Condemnations are just shiny badges. Thanks to Lenlyvit's innovation, Liberations have proven to be the punishments that Condemnations have failed to be.

Lenny’s poached lib from la navasse

If you're going to say things that prove you don't know the proposal being discussed, nor how the Security Council works, maybe you shouldn't be so loudly storming in here. You risk sounding ignorant.

LaNav's Liberation of The Communal Confederacy, SC Resolution #244, was a traditional liberation. Lenlyvit's Liberation of Kaiserreich, #245, was the first Liberation to succeed with the aim of addressing the issue of Condemnations becoming utterly ineffective. LaNav saw this new precedent that #245 set, and began writing similar non-traditional liberations. Saying Lenlyvit poached the Liberation from LaNav is like saying the Wright brothers poached from the engineers of the Hindenburg. It shows a total lack of knowledge.

[Dwarfpolis]

(Image)

The Rich Port votes against.

As the primary regulatory apparatus over the nations that subscribe themselves and expect only benefits from the WA, the WA reserves the right to regulate it's member nations and their proprietary assets, whether those assets are owned directly or indirectly, ignoring any pathetic attempts at subterfuge.

I would like to remind the very person who submitted this proposal that they themselves are a WA member, and attempting to opt out of any consequences of being a WA member are frankly foolish and confused. The fascists and Nazis are essentially asking for special protections and special treatment.

If the WA condemns the practice of fascism and Nazism through a majority vote, then it is the purview of the WA to police fascism and Nazism as it sees fit, by the same democratic right.

Perhaps if fascists and Nazis were to overpower those that oppose it, then perhaps they may repeal regulations against fascists and Nazis. Until that point, Kaisserreich is under the regulatory will of the WASC.

The "origin" of the WA's stigma against Nazis having "no clear catalyst" is patently preposterous and factually untrue. Territorial and economic encroachments against nations deemed "weak and useless" are a primary characteristic of fascist dogma.

It's been a known fact for three years that KReich harbours Nazi/fascist players. Hell, their original Reich Chancellor was named Nazi Empire of Neo Prussia. They either used to be or still are buddy-buddy with Nazi Europa. There is open evidence that they freely allow Holocaust jokes on their public Discord. If they aren't Nazis, they're doing an absolutely horrible job of convincing people that they aren't.

And organizations that preach an ideology that was built on hatred really don't deserve to be left alone.

It's been a known fact for three years that KReich harbours Nazi/fascist players. Hell, their original Reich Chancellor was named Nazi Empire of Neo Prussia. They either used to be or still are buddy-buddy with Nazi Europa. There is open evidence that they freely allow Holocaust jokes on their public Discord. If they aren't Nazis, they're doing an absolutely horrible job of convincing people that they aren't.

And organizations that preach an ideology that was built on hatred really don't deserve to be left alone.

KR has more lefties than people caught posting what was posted in those pics.

You cannot refute this, you may only evade it.

Clearly, this is caused by incompetence within KR’s Administration, when they aren’t actively feeding it. KR needs to make a serious effort for change, or else it will become a target for aforementioned bloody radicals.

Hate to burst your bubble, but I ain't no bloody radical friend. And yes, they need to make serious changes which include the expulsion of everyone in the region who say the things being said in their discord as well as the removal of the Nazis propaganda they use.

Are you talking about the pictures edited not to be nazi? How is that nazi propaganda?

[Malphe]

Ugh. I thought were were done with KREICH and it's shenanigans.

[Estonland]

(Image)

The Rich Port votes against.

As the primary regulatory apparatus over the nations that subscribe themselves and expect only benefits from the WA, the WA reserves the right to regulate it's member nations and their proprietary assets, whether those assets are owned directly or indirectly, ignoring any pathetic attempts at subterfuge.

I would like to remind the very person who submitted this proposal that they themselves are a WA member, and attempting to opt out of any consequences of being a WA member are frankly foolish and confused. The fascists and Nazis are essentially asking for special protections and special treatment.

If the WA condemns the practice of fascism and Nazism through a majority vote, then it is the purview of the WA to police fascism and Nazism as it sees fit, by the same democratic right.

Perhaps if fascists and Nazis were to overpower those that oppose it, then perhaps they may repeal regulations against fascists and Nazis. Until that point, Kaisserreich is under the regulatory will of the WASC.

The "origin" of the WA's stigma against Nazis having "no clear catalyst" is patently preposterous and factually untrue. Territorial and economic encroachments against nations deemed "weak and useless" are a primary characteristic of fascist dogma.

It's been a known fact for three years that KReich harbours Nazi/fascist players. Hell, their original Reich Chancellor was named Nazi Empire of Neo Prussia. They either used to be or still are buddy-buddy with Nazi Europa. There is open evidence that they freely allow Holocaust jokes on their public Discord. If they aren't Nazis, they're doing an absolutely horrible job of convincing people that they aren't.

And organizations that preach an ideology that was built on hatred really don't deserve to be left alone.

It's been a known fact for three years that KReich harbours Nazi/fascist players. Hell, their original Reich Chancellor was named Nazi Empire of Neo Prussia. They either used to be or still are buddy-buddy with Nazi Europa. There is open evidence that they freely allow Holocaust jokes on their public Discord. If they aren't Nazis, they're doing an absolutely horrible job of convincing people that they aren't.

And organizations that preach an ideology that was built on hatred really don't deserve to be left alone.

KR has more lefties than people caught posting what was posted in those pics.

You cannot refute this, you may only evade it.

Hate to burst your bubble, but I ain't no bloody radical friend. And yes, they need to make serious changes which include the expulsion of everyone in the region who say the things being said in their discord as well as the removal of the Nazis propaganda they use.

Are you talking about the pictures edited not to be nazi? How is that nazi propaganda?

Just for your information, Dwarfpolis has been banned from Kaiserreich due to his incendiary comments on this page. Their posts do not show the opinions of the government of Kaiserreich nor the most of the population

[Lenlyvit]

I can attest that Liberate KREICH was not, and never was, La Navasse's idea. Him and I were originally working on a condemnation, but we split ways when I decided to go for a liberation instead. He just rode the waves after I passed the resolution, and only one of the ones he's proposed I could agree with (Liberate NE).

[The New California Republic]

Firmly against.

[Central Asian Republics]

I too can say that La Navasse never came up with the nu-liberation idea.
This was the post that started this total shitshow:

Well, we can actually pass a Liberation resolution against KAISERREICH right now, even though it has a Founder. The Liberation resolution won't work on a Founder-imposed password, but it will prevent their Delegate from imposing a password if their Founder ever ceases to exist.

Basically, it would be a preemptive Liberation resolution to make sure their region is immediately vulnerable if ever it's founderless.

You can find it here.

[Gotenian Empire]

Special snowflakes

[Alex Sanctum Salvator]

Voted For
Voted against the liberation - had a look at the reigon, looks like Kaiserreich aren't Nazis - they're monarchists/imperialists. Like the actual IRL Deutsches Kaiserreich...
So, because they aren't Nazis, there's no reason to liberate them in the first place, so the ridiculous thing should be repealed.

[Hessere]

Voted For
Voted against the liberation - had a look at the reigon, looks like Kaiserreich aren't Nazis - they're monarchists/imperialists. Like the actual IRL Deutsches Kaiserreich...
So, because they aren't Nazis, there's no reason to liberate them in the first place, so the ridiculous thing should be repealed.

You probably didn't read through this thread.

[Lenlyvit]

Voted For
Voted against the liberation - had a look at the reigon, looks like Kaiserreich aren't Nazis - they're monarchists/imperialists. Like the actual IRL Deutsches Kaiserreich...
So, because they aren't Nazis, there's no reason to liberate them in the first place, so the ridiculous thing should be repealed.

You probably didn't read through this thread.

Or the other 5 before it

[Triangle And Square]

TNP's viewpoint on this:

This proposal aims to repeal a recently passed liberation of the Nazi region Kaiserreich. The repeal makes bold claims about the target region that have no basis in reality. One of these claims is that the region is under threat of "invasion" while the whole point of a liberation is so that the region can be freed from government oppression. In addition, we believe strongly that Nazis should be fought on all fronts, and that the liberation is a blow to Nazis across the NationStates world.
For these reasons the Ministry of World Assembly Affairs recommends a vote Against the proposal.

[Simbas]

Putting the whole proposal in italics is unnecessary and does nothing to aid the draft.

Yeah, that's fair. Is it just as necessary to remove though? I also clearly distinguished the leading verb at the beginning. As long as it's standard across the document, does it really matter?

Kasiereich ist ein Reich, dass wohl mir ja beim mitglider dieses Reich verbinden. Wie kann ich damit verbiden?

[Dwarfpolis]

Voted For
Voted against the liberation - had a look at the reigon, looks like Kaiserreich aren't Nazis - they're monarchists/imperialists. Like the actual IRL Deutsches Kaiserreich...
So, because they aren't Nazis, there's no reason to liberate them in the first place, so the ridiculous thing should be repealed.

You probably didn't read through this thread.

snip
Or the other 5 before it

TNP's viewpoint on this:

This proposal aims to repeal a recently passed liberation of the Nazi region Kaiserreich. The repeal makes bold claims about the target region that have no basis in reality. One of these claims is that the region is under threat of "invasion" while the whole point of a liberation is so that the region can be freed from government oppression. In addition, we believe strongly that Nazis should be fought on all fronts, and that the liberation is a blow to Nazis across the NationStates world.
For these reasons the Ministry of World Assembly Affairs recommends a vote Against the proposal.

All of these have yet to demonstrate how KR is a nazi region besides
"they edited nazi propaganda not to be nazi so nazi"
and
"we caught two guys talking trash on discord so a region of 200 people is nazi"
KR has more leftists than people caught saying what they said, HOW can it be a fascist region?

[West Leas Oros]

What KR needs most right now is reform, but using liberation and raiding as a first choice all but eliminates the possibility for an upstanding community to form within KR.

[Razzle Dazzle]

What KR needs most right now is reform, but using liberation and raiding as a first choice all but eliminates the possibility for an upstanding community to form within KR.

Not really. KReich has until their founder CTEs to kick out all of the Fascists and all of the Fascist stuff. Does that seem fair to you? That seems fair to me.

[Estonland]

Not really. KReich has until their founder CTEs to kick out all of the Fascists and all of the Fascist stuff. Does that seem fair to you? That seems fair to me.[/quote]
Scansinia ain’t CTE’ing, he is on Basic Training and will be back soon.
And again how does two foreigners posting fascist memes on our Discord make us nazi?

[West Leas Oros]

I don’t know about you, but I sense a strange moral ambiguity in all this.

[Forestavia]

Then condemn them. Don't liberate them from themselves against their will. Condemn them if they have infringed on others.

Condemnations are just shiny badges. Thanks to Lenlyvit's innovation, Liberations have proven to be the punishments that Condemnations have failed to be.

Incorrect! Condemnations are badges of DISHONOR. COMMENDATIONS are shiny badges of honor. Liberations are not supposed to be badges at all. All a liberation is - when it is used properly - is a last ditch attempt to give natives a chance to get their land back from an invading force that is occupying their land with the intention of keeping it. It is a way of balancing out the gameplay mechanics. The Liberation is not supposed to be a punishment! It's supposed to be an instrument of peace and hope for natives.

Let me say that again. THE LIBERATION WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE A PUNISHMENT. IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN INSTRUMENT OF PEACE AND HOPE FOR NATIVES. That's how we're supposed to use it.

We're liberating a bunch of natives from themselves which makes no sense at all because they have full control of their region. We are chipping away at their regional sovereignty (AND EVERYONE ELSE'S TOO) because we believe we have the moral authority to punish them. Well I've got news for you and everyone else who voted against this repeal: We don't have that moral authority. The only moral authority of punishment that we have in this chamber is the condemnation. Use it! Use the condemnation if you feel that region needs to be punished.

And something else. This chamber voted for this so-called "liberation" once. Voting against this repeal is the same thing as voting for this offensive neoliberation a second time. A mistake made once is just a mistake. But when a government body makes the same mistake twice, I call that foolishness!

Lenlyvit's "innovation", as you put it, is very, very dangerous. Because now we're seeing a trend of ideological warfare taking place in this chamber where it shouldn't be. We're seeing the political weaponization of the Security Council; we shouldn't be invading anyone. We should be neutral. As the World Assembly, we are supposed to transcend petty politics. We are supposed to take a step back and remember that we are a respectable world body. We're supposed to spread peace and harmony in the world, not ideological warfare. We're NOT supposed to be tearing up our world with needless, senseless liberations. But that's what we're doing, isn't it? We're not liberating anyone. We're warzone creating and it needs to stop. Please people! Put the worms back in the can! This precedent has gone on far too long already. The repeal needs our support.

[RiderSyl]

Condemnations are just shiny badges. Thanks to Lenlyvit's innovation, Liberations have proven to be the punishments that Condemnations have failed to be.

Incorrect! Condemnations are badges of DISHONOR.

Well now I don't even have to read the ensuing wall of text, because you don't know what you're talking about from the offset. Find me a Condemned nation that feels dishonored by it. Find me a Condemned region that feels dishonored by it. You can't. They're badges of honor for playing the game as a villain, and they have been for several years now. Lenlyvit fixed the SC with Liberate Kaiserreich. The SC can punish regions again, like it was supposed to be able to with Condemnations.

The Security Council fixed its own mechanical problems via legislature, instead of having to go to the admins. I'd say that deserves applause, not incessant complaining.

[Kurnugia]

snip

It speaks volume that no one in recent memory, that has been condemned, tried to repeal theit condemnation.

Liberations though? This repeal speaks volume.

[Soviet Lestland]

I am currently meming this WA-Resolution again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApkvZrecK-g

[USS Monitor]

Yeah, that's fair. Is it just as necessary to remove though? I also clearly distinguished the leading verb at the beginning. As long as it's standard across the document, does it really matter?

Kasiereich ist ein Reich, dass wohl mir ja beim mitglider dieses Reich verbinden. Wie kann ich damit verbiden?

Englisch bitte! Am meistens, richtiges Deutsch ohne Typfehler.

All joking aside, this is an English-language forum.

[Soviet Lestland]

Englisch bitte! Am meistens, richtiges Deutsch ohne Typfehler.

All joking aside, this is an English-language forum.

Oh, the irony. xP