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[DEFEATED] Repeal: Liberate Kaiserreich

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Scheinenland
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[DEFEATED] Repeal: Liberate Kaiserreich

Postby Scheinenland » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:32 pm

THE SECURITY COUNCIL:

OBSERVING the Liberation of Kaiserreich as having no significant origin or catalyst other than being a target of several Liberations in succession for supposed Nazi regions;

APPALLED by the generalization of Kaiserreich as a Nazi region while disrespecting the vast majority that condemns Nazism;

UNDERSTANDING the difficulty in policing individual nations' political beliefs while remaining a region that observes the freedom of expression;

NOTING the lack of endorsement and repeated condemnation of Nazism by the government of Kaiserreich and its members of authority;

RECOGNIZING Kaiserreich as protecting the freedom of speech, expression, and religion, and never institutionally discriminating against any citizen of Kaiserreich for these reasons;

ACKNOWLEDGING the threat of invasion caused by the Liberation of Kaiserreich and the instability that could be caused due to such an action occurring;

HEREBY REPEALS SC#245 "Liberate KAISERREICH".
Last edited by Wrapper on Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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North Saitama
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Postby North Saitama » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:53 am

For, because La Navasse's witch hunts, which he describes as "neoliberations", are a blight on the SC, and I do not believe in so-called liberation of natives for purely ideological reasons, especially on trumped-up charges.
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Postby Kenmoria » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:56 am

Putting the whole proposal in italics is unnecessary and does nothing to aid the draft.
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Hinodia
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Postby Hinodia » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:58 am

Support, even if it’s not yet finished. These liberations serve no point at all, and only waste time by being symbolic when there are regions that actually need liberation after an attack by raiders.
Last edited by Hinodia on Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Pergamon » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:29 pm

Against. Regions like K-Reich do not deserve to be able to hunker down behind a password - and once the founder CTE's we're coming for them.
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Hemuraile
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Postby Hemuraile » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:32 pm

Pergamon wrote:Against. Regions like K-Reich do not deserve to be able to hunker down behind a password - and once the founder CTE's we're coming for them.

Regions like K-Reich do not deserve to have a certain fate due to allegedly endorsing an ideology - and once the founder CTE's a freedom-strangling precedent is here to stay.
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Postby Indo-Malaysia » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:33 pm

I will support all repeals of LaNav's resolutions except Liberate Nazi Europa.
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Scheinenland
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Postby Scheinenland » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:59 pm

Pergamon wrote:Against. Regions like K-Reich do not deserve to be able to hunker down behind a password - and once the founder CTE's we're coming for them.

Kaiserreich doesn't need to "hunker down" behind a password. We can't be invaded as our delegate is a pointless position with no power, and Scansinia is going on a temporary leave and will return not long after his absence. Something tells me you have no idea what Kaiserreich really is, and are simply labeling them as Nazis or fascists because it benefits you politically or socially. Which I understand, but for those of us who are being labeled what we are not, it's detrimental to our region.

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Scheinenland
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Postby Scheinenland » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:00 pm

Kenmoria wrote:Putting the whole proposal in italics is unnecessary and does nothing to aid the draft.

Yeah, that's fair. Is it just as necessary to remove though? I also clearly distinguished the leading verb at the beginning. As long as it's standard across the document, does it really matter?

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Scheinenland
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Postby Scheinenland » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:02 pm

Hinodia wrote:Support, even if it’s not yet finished. These liberations serve no point at all, and only waste time by being symbolic when there are regions that actually need liberation after an attack by raiders.

What could I add to further the possibility of it reaching quorum?

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Postby Hatterleigh » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:04 pm

Kenmoria wrote:Putting the whole proposal in italics is unnecessary and does nothing to aid the draft.

Who cares?
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Postby Hatterleigh » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:04 pm

I'm down with this.
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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:10 pm

Indo-Malaysia wrote:I will support all repeals of LaNav's resolutions except Liberate Nazi Europa.

First, it wasn't La Navasse's resolution.
Second, it passed with a wide majority and all but one GCR delegate voting for it. Liberate KREICH will stay on the books.
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Scheinenland
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Postby Scheinenland » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:17 pm

Lenlyvit wrote:
Indo-Malaysia wrote:I will support all repeals of LaNav's resolutions except Liberate Nazi Europa.

First, it wasn't La Navasse's resolution.
Second, it passed with a wide majority and all but one GCR delegate voting for it. Liberate KREICH will stay on the books.

Yes, however, the nature of La Navasses's and your Liberations are similar, which was the reason for the confusion. I am also aware that it was in favor by the majority, but the Liberation painted Kaiserreich in an exaggerated display and labeled it as Nazi. Not many WA nations are going to vote in favor of a "Nazi" region that they don't exactly have much experience in.

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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:24 pm

Scheinenland wrote:
Lenlyvit wrote:First, it wasn't La Navasse's resolution.
Second, it passed with a wide majority and all but one GCR delegate voting for it. Liberate KREICH will stay on the books.

Yes, however, the nature of La Navasses's and your Liberations are similar, which was the reason for the confusion. I am also aware that it was in favor by the majority, but the Liberation painted Kaiserreich in an exaggerated display and labeled it as Nazi.

KREICH is Nazi/Fascist, and there's about three threads of arguments and evidence to prove it.

Scheinenland wrote:Not many WA nations are going to vote in favor of a "Nazi" region that they don't exactly have much experience in.


Correct, not many nations will vote in favor of repealing a resolution opening a Nazi/Fascist region to just deserts. Thanks for clarifying that part.
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Hemuraile
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Postby Hemuraile » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:28 pm

Scheinenland wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:Putting the whole proposal in italics is unnecessary and does nothing to aid the draft.

Yeah, that's fair. Is it just as necessary to remove though? I also clearly distinguished the leading verb at the beginning. As long as it's standard across the document, does it really matter?

It isn't pleasing to the eyes for me.
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Scheinenland
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Postby Scheinenland » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:30 pm

Lenlyvit wrote:
Scheinenland wrote:Yes, however, the nature of La Navasses's and your Liberations are similar, which was the reason for the confusion. I am also aware that it was in favor by the majority, but the Liberation painted Kaiserreich in an exaggerated display and labeled it as Nazi.

KREICH is Nazi/Fascist, and there's about three threads of arguments and evidence to prove it.


Honestly, I don't care if there's been a book the size of the Encyclopaedia Britannica written about it being fascist. I've spent 2 years both in it and fighting it and I know for 100% certainty that no institutional Nazism or Fascism takes place. It is an Imperial Monarchy, at most. I'm sure you're so certain about it that you'll never change your opinion, but perhaps that's a key indicator that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about in the slightest.
Last edited by Scheinenland on Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:47 pm

Scheinenland wrote:
Lenlyvit wrote:KREICH is Nazi/Fascist, and there's about three threads of arguments and evidence to prove it.


Honestly, I don't care if there's been a book the size of the Encyclopaedia Britannica written about it being fascist. I've spent 2 years both in it and fighting it and I know for 100% certainty that no institutional Nazism or Fascism takes place. It is an Imperial Monarchy, at most. I'm sure you're so certain about it that you'll never change your opinion, but perhaps that's a key indicator that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about in the slightest.

> wrote the liberation

> has been around far longer than you

> has researched a lot about KREICH and read the discord screenshots

Mhm, I definitely don't know what I'm talking about :roll:
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Scheinenland
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Postby Scheinenland » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:54 pm

Lenlyvit wrote:
Scheinenland wrote:
Honestly, I don't care if there's been a book the size of the Encyclopaedia Britannica written about it being fascist. I've spent 2 years both in it and fighting it and I know for 100% certainty that no institutional Nazism or Fascism takes place. It is an Imperial Monarchy, at most. I'm sure you're so certain about it that you'll never change your opinion, but perhaps that's a key indicator that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about in the slightest.

> wrote the liberation

> has been around far longer than you

> has researched a lot about KREICH and read the discord screenshots

Mhm, I definitely don't know what I'm talking about :roll:


I have been inside Kaiserreich for far longer than you, and have been apart of both the highest levels of government and the lowest. You are generalizing all of Kaiserreich for the actions of a very few, which does tell me that you are utterly clueless when it comes to the region. We could go back and forth for hours, but I'd rather not as you'd vote against it and I'd vote for it no matter what happens. Good day.
Last edited by Scheinenland on Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:02 pm

This was submitted and a telegram campaign was dispatched, as follows:

Code: Select all
[b]Hello WA Delegate! I implore you to support Repeal: Liberate Kaiserreich! The Liberation wrongly painted Kaiserreich as Nazi, when it is no such thing. The government continuously denounces Nazism but to no effect. We [i]do[/i] get some Nazis here and there, but they are never welcome in our region and never gain much power within our region. As someone who hates Nazism passionately, I am asking you to please give it some consideration. Thank you.[/b]

[spoiler=Here it is!][i][b]THE SECURITY COUNCIL:[/b]

[b]OBSERVING[/b] the Liberation of [region]Kaiserreich[/region] as having no significant origin or catalyst other than being a target of several Liberations in succession for supposed Nazi regions;

[b]APPALLED[/b] by the generalization of [region]Kaiserreich[/region] as a Nazi region while disrespecting the vast majority that condemns Nazism;

[b]UNDERSTANDING[/b] the difficulty in policing individual nations' political beliefs while remaining a region that observes the freedom of expression;

[b]NOTING[/b] the lack of endorsement and repeated condemnation of Nazism by the government of [region]Kaiserreich[/region] and its members of authority;

[b]RECOGNIZING[/b] [region]Kaiserreich[/region] as protecting the freedom of speech, expression, and religion, and never institutionally discriminating against any citizen of [region]Kaiserreich[/region] for these reasons;

[b]ACKNOWLEDGING[/b] the threat of invasion caused by the Liberation of [region]Kaiserreich[/region] and the instability that could be caused due to such an action occurring;

[b]HEREBY REPEALS SC#245 "Liberate KAISERREICH".[/b][/i][/spoiler]

https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_view_proposal/id=scheinenland_1523745165

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Wolfarios
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Postby Wolfarios » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:08 pm

Lenlyvit wrote:
> has researched a lot about KREICH and read the discord screenshots

Hey could you tell me were this screenshots are please, I've been looking for them but I never find them

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:17 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:This was submitted and a telegram campaign was dispatched, as follows:

The proposal itself, however, is not all italicised - only the boldened bits.
Wolfarios wrote:
Lenlyvit wrote:
> has researched a lot about KREICH and read the discord screenshots

Hey could you tell me were this screenshots are please, I've been looking for them but I never find them

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=437873&p=33655463#p33655463
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:19 pm

Tinhampton wrote:The proposal itself, however, is not all italicised - only the boldened bits.

This is like Aristotle and whether objects fall at the same rate. Why make claims when they are so easy to debunk? Other than for the flavour text generated by the game, the whole proposal is italicised. https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1523745165

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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:19 pm

Tinhampton wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:This was submitted and a telegram campaign was dispatched, as follows:

The proposal itself, however, is not all italicised - only the boldened bits.
Wolfarios wrote:Hey could you tell me were this screenshots are please, I've been looking for them but I never find them

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=437873&p=33655463#p33655463

Thanks Tinhampton, I was just looking through the thread to find a link. Its here too, for ease of access. The post with the links are quoted by Winfallow viewtopic.php?f=24&t=437873&start=150
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Langor Empire
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Postby Langor Empire » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:32 pm

This liberation started a dangerous trend - one that the more intelligent members of the Assembly warned about from the very beginning - and the only reason we have to deal with La Navasse now is because of this precedent.

To combat the offensive liberation movement, the WA must first look at its cause and source, that being the idea that the SC can be used against ideological opponents and for warmongering: no matter the beliefs of any particular region, its liberation will essentially turn it into a playground for raidfenders, and there will be no difference between KAISERREICH and Iran or, say, Westphalia before Petain's return. SC has become an instrument of conflict; personally, I disagree with the very concept of liberations in general, but since they are here to stay the interregional community should at least limit their use to actual dying and occupied regions, not ones that have thriving communities even if they hold views that some find offensive. Make peace not war.

Anything that can be done to reverse the effects of the offensive liberation movement needs to be done.

Full support.
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