[Shelved] Liberate Arcem (SCUT)

[Verdrassil]

Why is it that in all his telegrams, Aimdar-Goomdar frames this as some kind of East Pacific stratagem? Does the East Pacific support or endorse his actions? If not, why then will they seemingly take no action when at the end of all his campaign material, Aimdar-Goomdar sells his proposal as if he is speaking on their behalf as a staffer at TEP's Ministry of World Assembly Affairs?

EDIT: This is not to speak at all on the question of Aimdar-Goomdar's lies in his newest message. He claims that this liberation of a region with an active founder will "creat[e] vulnerability" in paragraph 5. It won't do anything, because of the presence of an active founder. And he makes it clear his own personal reasons for seeking liberation in paragraph 3. A region he cares about got invaded, so I guess he will be tilting at windmills for the rest of the year. This is classic behaviour from Aimdar-'Death to the NPO'-Goomdar.

The East Pacific does not endorse the category of resolutions to which La Navasse refers as "neo-liberations". Both myself and the delegate have spoken previously with him about leaving his involvement within the Ministry of World Assembly Affairs out of his personal projects, yet we have come to learn just recently that he has continued this behavior regardless. To reiterate: he did not, does not, and will not represent the interests of The East Pacific in any sort of official capacity.

Further, La Navasse has been removed from the Ministry of World Assembly Affairs. Hopefully now it will become crystal clear to everyone that we do not endorse these types of resolutions nor the underlying politics or philosophy associated with them.

(Caught the edit a bit late. Glad the misunderstanding has been ironed out, though other skeptics may use the above for reference.)

[La Navasse]

All telegrams with any reference to the Ministry of WA Affairs of the East Pacific are not to be regarded as an official statement of the East Pacific in any capacity; they are now only associated with the campaign telegram template that was sent out. Apologizes.

[New Ex Patria]

Look, I am not the biggest fan of SCUT, but they are certainly not fascist sympathisers. Against.

[Arkhall]

Look, I am not the biggest fan of SCUT, but they are certainly not fascist sympathisers. Against.

:thonk:

Interesting.

[The Noble Thatcherites]

Stop sending me telegrams, please and thank you.

[Bedetopia]

Stop sending me telegrams, please and thank you.

This is an ideal scenario for the block tool.

[The Fatheland]

I support this, i encourage all WA delegates to support so that we can watch it fail.

[New Legland]

Sadly, it seems many of the WA's delegates are so woefully uninformed that this thing will probably make it to quorum. At least when it makes it to vote it'll be demolished. Won't be surprised if this idiot tries to resubmit it again, though.

[New Legland]

All telegrams with any reference to the Ministry of WA Affairs of the East Pacific are not to be regarded as an official statement of the East Pacific in any capacity; they are now only associated with the campaign telegram template that was sent out. Apologizes.

Funny, you only address it when it costs you.

[Ransium]

Sadly, it seems many of the WA's delegates are so woefully uninformed that this thing will probably make it to quorum. At least when it makes it to vote it'll be demolished. Won't be surprised if this idiot tries to resubmit it again, though.

Unofficial warning for flaming.

[La Navasse]

The proposal ended with 102 Approvals, only 4 below quorum. This clearly demonstrates strong support for this proposal from all Delegates, even though there were 3 countercampaigns sent out. This does not mean, however, that the proposal will not be resubmitted; it will, likely later next week.

Thank you, Delegates, for your strong and continued support. I promise that as soon as this proposal finally reaches quorum, we will be able to push through this Liberation and bring justice to SCUT.

[Kaboomlandia]

The proposal ended with 102 Approvals, only 4 below quorum. This clearly demonstrates strong support for this proposal from all Delegates, even though there were 3 countercampaigns sent out. This does not mean, however, that the proposal will not be resubmitted; it will, likely later next week.

Thank you, Delegates, for your strong and continued support. I promise that as soon as this proposal finally reaches quorum, we will be able to push through this Liberation and bring justice to SCUT.

Dude. Stop. Please. It's failed three times already and that was with you falsely representing TEP in the process. It's not going to pass, and if it somehow does, I have an insta-repeal written and ready to post on the forum immediately. If you read through this thread, 95% of the posts are in opposition to it or you arguing with them.

EDIT: Also I'm pretty sure some delegates are probably going to start blocking you at this point if they haven't already, decreasing the effectiveness of this campaign and others that you will try in future.

[La Navasse]

The proposal ended with 102 Approvals, only 4 below quorum. This clearly demonstrates strong support for this proposal from all Delegates, even though there were 3 countercampaigns sent out. This does not mean, however, that the proposal will not be resubmitted; it will, likely later next week.

Thank you, Delegates, for your strong and continued support. I promise that as soon as this proposal finally reaches quorum, we will be able to push through this Liberation and bring justice to SCUT.

Dude. Stop. Please. It's failed three times already and that was with you falsely representing TEP in the process. It's not going to pass, and if it somehow does, I have an insta-repeal written and ready to post on the forum immediately. If you read through this thread, 95% of the posts are in opposition to it or you arguing with them.

EDIT: Also I'm pretty sure some delegates are probably going to start blocking you at this point if they haven't already, decreasing the effectiveness of this campaign and others that you will try in future.

I don't see any reason not to stop. You may go ahead and preemptively write Insta-repeals for my Neoliberations, but I'd imagine that the SC sides with those not supporting fascism rather than those opposing such movements.

[Kaboomlandia]

Dude. Stop. Please. It's failed three times already and that was with you falsely representing TEP in the process. It's not going to pass, and if it somehow does, I have an insta-repeal written and ready to post on the forum immediately. If you read through this thread, 95% of the posts are in opposition to it or you arguing with them.

EDIT: Also I'm pretty sure some delegates are probably going to start blocking you at this point if they haven't already, decreasing the effectiveness of this campaign and others that you will try in future.

I don't see any reason not to stop. You may go ahead and preemptively write Insta-repeals for my Neoliberations, but I'd imagine that the SC sides with those not supporting fascism rather than those opposing such movements.

I'm not opposing an anti-fascist movement here. I'm opposing a pointless resolution built entirely on lies with no hard evidence. There's a difference.

And before you make your usual point about how all the evidence against you is fake, almost everyone else in the thread has said the same thing as I have.

[La Navasse]

I don't see any reason not to stop. You may go ahead and preemptively write Insta-repeals for my Neoliberations, but I'd imagine that the SC sides with those not supporting fascism rather than those opposing such movements.

I'm not opposing an anti-fascist movement here. I'm opposing a pointless resolution built entirely on lies with no hard evidence. There's a difference.

And before you make your usual point about how all the evidence against you is fake, almost everyone else in the thread has said the same thing as I have.

This resolution has no lies, nor does it not pay respect to those against fascism. Quite frankly, if 102 Approvals, with 3 Countercampaigns, cannot convince you enough that the will and want for this Liberation, albeit unspoken, is high, I have no words.

[Morriband]

The proposal ended with 102 Approvals, only 4 below quorum. This clearly demonstrates strong support for this proposal from all Delegates, even though there were 3 countercampaigns sent out. This does not mean, however, that the proposal will not be resubmitted; it will, likely later next week.

Thank you, Delegates, for your strong and continued support. I promise that as soon as this proposal finally reaches quorum, we will be able to push through this Liberation and bring justice to SCUT.

Here's the things wrong with your statement, in order of importance.

1) You're assuming that an approval of the proposal is equal to an agreement with its intentions, rather than just wanting to send it to the floor to be voted on. There are those who are opposed to it that want it to be approved because they believe it will fail harder than it already has if it goes to quorum.
2) The delegates are doing their due diligence and agreeing with you, after doing plenty of research. In most cases, a delegate will get a telegram, and vote for what it says. When you send a TG to a random WAD saying (basically) "SCUT is fascist! Support me or you support fascism!", you're both lying to them and significantly oversimplifying their choices. In all cases where we've received responses from WADs, they withdraw their support. We show them facts and evidence, give them an open invite to our discord server (https://discord.gg/QujCAmw <-- In case you want it), and a promise to answer any of their questions. You, on the other hand, go in circles ("SCUT is fascist because they have friends that I think are fascists, therefore SCUT is fascist.")
3) Your support is neither strong nor continuous (see above). If it was so "strong and continued", you wouldn't have to spam WADs to the point of them having to publicly request that you stop sending them messages. You came close to the quorum, but that doesn't mean you got more support. You keep looking for ways to say it's not your own fault, but it is.
4) You knew darn well what you were doing with the whole TEP label thing and only apologized when it backfired and TEP withdrew most of its support. You were using it to essentially say/imply "Oh, I'm a TEP Official, stand with us feederites to condemn more fascists". Basically, you were committing fraud to advance an unwarranted attack based on a personal grudge and the need to cover up and/or overcompensate for your past.

[Kaboomlandia]

I'm not opposing an anti-fascist movement here. I'm opposing a pointless resolution built entirely on lies with no hard evidence. There's a difference.

And before you make your usual point about how all the evidence against you is fake, almost everyone else in the thread has said the same thing as I have.

This resolution has no lies, nor does it not pay respect to those against fascism. Quite frankly, if 102 Approvals, with 3 Countercampaigns, cannot convince you enough that the will and want for this Liberation, albeit unspoken, is high, I have no words.

A somewhat-dispersed collection of things that you should probably understand:

- It came within 4 approvals of quorum only because you spammed the shit out of the Delegates with multiple campaign telegrams, while falsely claiming that this resolution was endorsed by TEP. Matter of fact, I'm guessing there were probably one or two delegates who wanted to get this to vote simply to stomp it once and for all. The gist of this point: The proposal will likely top out where it just was.

- Anything legal can get 30-35 approvals because of the Rubber Stamp Brigade, an oft-mentioned group of Delegates that approve everything, regardless of merit.

- Some delegates, as shown by an example in this thread, have either asked you to stop sending them campaign telegrams or are going to block you. Your campaigns will get less effective because of this.

- Your last and only post in this thread that even attempted to provide any physical evidence to support the claims of your resolution was on April 10 at 7:35 PM EDT, on Page 11. That point was debunked. You have no other hard evidence. Every other post of yours here is just you sidestepping everyone else's firm but civil demands that you provide physical evidence. Not difficult.

- SCUT is not lying to you. They have no reason to, and have gone to great lengths to show this. They are innocent.

- Femdom Empire and Nazi Europa liberations only passed because they were obvious fascist regions. The same style of resolution was shown here to not work when the region isn't fascist.

The tl;dr: You have less support than you think you do and no Lemming Brigade to pass the resolution because "Nazis r bad", which was the case with your last two liberations.

[La Navasse]

The proposal ended with 102 Approvals, only 4 below quorum. This clearly demonstrates strong support for this proposal from all Delegates, even though there were 3 countercampaigns sent out. This does not mean, however, that the proposal will not be resubmitted; it will, likely later next week.

Thank you, Delegates, for your strong and continued support. I promise that as soon as this proposal finally reaches quorum, we will be able to push through this Liberation and bring justice to SCUT.

Here's the things wrong with your statement, in order of importance.

1) You're assuming that an approval of the proposal is equal to an agreement with its intentions, rather than just wanting to send it to the floor to be voted on. There are those who are opposed to it that want it to be approved because they believe it will fail harder than it already has if it goes to quorum.
2) The delegates are doing their due diligence and agreeing with you, after doing plenty of research. In most cases, a delegate will get a telegram, and vote for what it says. When you send a TG to a random WAD saying (basically) "SCUT is fascist! Support me or you support fascism!", you're both lying to them and significantly oversimplifying their choices. In all cases where we've received responses from WADs, they withdraw their support. We show them facts and evidence, give them an open invite to our discord server (https://discord.gg/QujCAmw <-- In case you want it), and a promise to answer any of their questions. You, on the other hand, go in circles ("SCUT is fascist because they have friends that I think are fascists, therefore SCUT is fascist.")
3) Your support is neither strong nor continuous (see above). If it was so "strong and continued", you wouldn't have to spam WADs to the point of them having to publicly request that you stop sending them messages. You came close to the quorum, but that doesn't mean you got more support. You keep looking for ways to say it's not your own fault, but it is.
4) You knew darn well what you were doing with the whole TEP label thing and only apologized when it backfired and TEP withdrew most of its support. You were using it to essentially say/imply "Oh, I'm a TEP Official, stand with us feederites to condemn more fascists". Basically, you were committing fraud to advance an unwarranted attack based on a personal grudge and the need to cover up and/or overcompensate for your past.

1. Such an assumption is unfounded - Approval means support.
2. Your generalizations and accusations of my argument are using the strawman fallacy. Misrepresenting my argument to only make it easier for yourself is shameful.
3. Coming close to quorum does indeed mean I got more support, especially considering how the last submission that came close had just over 80 Approvals. Additionally, I do believe that I can call my support strong and continued, as sending out three countercampaigns on your side (with just The City-State of Bastion sending two of three) did not stop the proposal from only being four approvals from quorum.
4. Again, you're using a logical fallacy - Ad hominem. I do admit I've used this once, however, that doesn't mean that it helps support your argument, nor are your properly considering the situation, which was in reality a misunderstanding rather than your doctored "committing fraud". Additionally, Queen Yuno was the 102nd Approver of the proposal.

[Kaboomlandia]

Given that TEP literally fired you in public at the top of this page, I'm not sure why you're trying to downplay it.

[La Navasse]

Given that TEP literally fired you in public at the top of this page, I'm not sure why you're trying to downplay it.

Again, ad hominem. Increasing the drama of this misunderstanding does not help any point you have.

As I've said before, Queen Yuno was the 102nd Approver of the proposal.

[Kaboomlandia]

There's no drama. There's no misunderstanding. I'm not in TEP and am not a delegate. Using only public knowledge from this thread, you pretended to represent a feeder to get your proposal moving. You got fired for falsely claiming to represent TEP (which is not a lie, it's at the top of the page). That's the facts.

Yuno's approval means nothing. Approvals are essentially meaningless on an individual level in NationStates IMHO; in my view it only matters if it got to quorum or not, not who specifically approved which proposal. As I said before, it's plausible that they wanted this to get to quorum merely to crush it. Who knows.

Getting 102 approvals on this proposal, given the circumstances, is as good as it will get for this proposal.

[Bedetopia]

Given that TEP literally fired you in public at the top of this page, I'm not sure why you're trying to downplay it.

Again, ad hominem. Increasing the drama of this misunderstanding does not help any point you have.

As I've said before, Queen Yuno was the 102nd Approver of the proposal.

It's not ad hominem. The argument can be summarized as "You're unable to represent TEP anymore as you've been dimissed from the WA ministry, therefore your support will decrease", there is no personal attack involved.

[Morriband]

Here's the things wrong with your statement, in order of importance.

1) You're assuming that an approval of the proposal is equal to an agreement with its intentions, rather than just wanting to send it to the floor to be voted on. There are those who are opposed to it that want it to be approved because they believe it will fail harder than it already has if it goes to quorum.
2) The delegates are doing their due diligence and agreeing with you, after doing plenty of research. In most cases, a delegate will get a telegram, and vote for what it says. When you send a TG to a random WAD saying (basically) "SCUT is fascist! Support me or you support fascism!", you're both lying to them and significantly oversimplifying their choices. In all cases where we've received responses from WADs, they withdraw their support. We show them facts and evidence, give them an open invite to our discord server (https://discord.gg/QujCAmw <-- In case you want it), and a promise to answer any of their questions. You, on the other hand, go in circles ("SCUT is fascist because they have friends that I think are fascists, therefore SCUT is fascist.")
3) Your support is neither strong nor continuous (see above). If it was so "strong and continued", you wouldn't have to spam WADs to the point of them having to publicly request that you stop sending them messages. You came close to the quorum, but that doesn't mean you got more support. You keep looking for ways to say it's not your own fault, but it is.
4) You knew darn well what you were doing with the whole TEP label thing and only apologized when it backfired and TEP withdrew most of its support. You were using it to essentially say/imply "Oh, I'm a TEP Official, stand with us feederites to condemn more fascists". Basically, you were committing fraud to advance an unwarranted attack based on a personal grudge and the need to cover up and/or overcompensate for your past.

1. Such an assumption is unfounded - Approval means support.
2. Your generalizations and accusations of my argument are using the strawman fallacy. Misrepresenting my argument to only make it easier for yourself is shameful.
3. Coming close to quorum does indeed mean I got more support, especially considering how the last submission that came close had just over 80 Approvals. Additionally, I do believe that I can call my support strong and continued, as sending out three countercampaigns on your side (with just The City-State of Bastion sending two of three) did not stop the proposal from only being four approvals from quorum.
4. Again, you're using a logical fallacy - Ad hominem. I do admit I've used this once, however, that doesn't mean that it helps support your argument, nor are your properly considering the situation, which was in reality a misunderstanding rather than your doctored "committing fraud". Additionally, Queen Yuno was the 102nd Approver of the proposal.

It's truly ironic that you think I'm strawmanning you, when you're calling us fascists. As for the points you made about approvals and support, I will say it nice and clearly: Approval of a submission does not mean that it is supported. It only means that it's approved to go to the floor, to be voted on. The support comes after it reaches quorum. Got it? Also, your Yuno reference is meaningless. If your logic applies, she wanted to condemn herself.

[La Navasse]

There's no drama. There's no misunderstanding. I'm not in TEP and am not a delegate. Using only public knowledge from this thread, you pretended to represent a feeder to get your proposal moving. You got fired for falsely claiming to represent TEP (which is not a lie, it's at the top of the page). That's the facts.

Yuno's approval means nothing. Approvals are essentially meaningless on an individual level in NationStates IMHO; in my view it only matters if it got to quorum or not, not who specifically approved which proposal. As I said before, it's plausible that they wanted this to get to quorum merely to crush it. Who knows.

Getting 102 approvals on this proposal, given the circumstances, is as good as it will get for this proposal.

See the reply to Bede's quote regarding TEP. As for 102 approvals being "as good as it will get," your doctoring at this point is hilarious.

Again, ad hominem. Increasing the drama of this misunderstanding does not help any point you have.

As I've said before, Queen Yuno was the 102nd Approver of the proposal.

It's not ad hominem. The argument can be summarized as "You're unable to represent TEP anymore as you've been dimissed from the WA ministry, therefore your support will decrease", there is no personal attack involved.

However, using such as an attempt to decrease my authenticity is a personal attack. Therefore, ad hominem.

1. Such an assumption is unfounded - Approval means support.
2. Your generalizations and accusations of my argument are using the strawman fallacy. Misrepresenting my argument to only make it easier for yourself is shameful.
3. Coming close to quorum does indeed mean I got more support, especially considering how the last submission that came close had just over 80 Approvals. Additionally, I do believe that I can call my support strong and continued, as sending out three countercampaigns on your side (with just The City-State of Bastion sending two of three) did not stop the proposal from only being four approvals from quorum.
4. Again, you're using a logical fallacy - Ad hominem. I do admit I've used this once, however, that doesn't mean that it helps support your argument, nor are your properly considering the situation, which was in reality a misunderstanding rather than your doctored "committing fraud". Additionally, Queen Yuno was the 102nd Approver of the proposal.

It's truly ironic that you think I'm strawmanning you, when you're calling us fascists. As for the points you made about approvals and support, I will say it nice and clearly: Approval of a submission does not mean that it is supported. It only means that it's approved to go to the floor, to be voted on. The support comes after it reaches quorum. Got it? Also, your Yuno reference is meaningless. If your logic applies, she wanted to condemn herself.

Ambiguity fallacy. Approval means support for the proposal.

[Kaboomlandia]

There's no drama. There's no misunderstanding. I'm not in TEP and am not a delegate. Using only public knowledge from this thread, you pretended to represent a feeder to get your proposal moving. You got fired for falsely claiming to represent TEP (which is not a lie, it's at the top of the page). That's the facts.

Yuno's approval means nothing. Approvals are essentially meaningless on an individual level in NationStates IMHO; in my view it only matters if it got to quorum or not, not who specifically approved which proposal. As I said before, it's plausible that they wanted this to get to quorum merely to crush it. Who knows.

Getting 102 approvals on this proposal, given the circumstances, is as good as it will get for this proposal.

See the reply to Bede's quote regarding TEP. As for 102 approvals being "as good as it will get," your doctoring at this point is hilarious.

My points still stand: you no longer have any benefit you got from your fake representation of TEP, delegates are going to start blocking your spam-o-grams, and the ones that didn't probably have read this thread by now. All of which will contribute to a decreasing approval total.

It's not ad hominem. The argument can be summarized as "You're unable to represent TEP anymore as you've been dimissed from the WA ministry, therefore your support will decrease", there is no personal attack involved.

However, using such as an attempt to decrease my authenticity is a personal attack. Therefore, ad hominem.

I made no attempt to decrease your credibility through adding anything of my own. I merely restated the exact post at the top of Page 16. It was in the public record. I can cite it all I like. That is not an ad hominem.

Also, by your logic of approval = support, nothing should ever fail at vote. Yet it does. Lots of times.