[Shelved] Liberate Arcem (SCUT)

[Indo-Malaysia]

Ironic.

It's ironic that you're even considering this ironic, for your blatant disregard of your opposition's points and your never-ending belief in the already-changed past is dastardly and nearly as ridiculous as your belief that there was no hard evidence in Liberate KR. I doubt that there is any sort of hard evidence for Neoliberations that would ever convince you, no matter the circumstances.

A point means nowt without evidence. Yourself failure to provide any speaks for itself.

And for gods sake its called Offensive Liberation

[La Navasse]

It's ironic that you're even considering this ironic, for your blatant disregard of your opposition's points and your never-ending belief in the already-changed past is dastardly and nearly as ridiculous as your belief that there was no hard evidence in Liberate KR. I doubt that there is any sort of hard evidence for Neoliberations that would ever convince you, no matter the circumstances.

A point means nowt without evidence. Yourself failure to provide any speaks for itself.

And for gods sake its called Offensive Liberation

You have no good points, nor do you have any evidence to back it up. An argument must have proper sources and an understanding of the past, present, and future to know what evidence is outdated and what evidence is actually up to date. You can't construct an argument against the presently submitted draft with scraps from the rough draft.

I refuse to go on and spam my own thread with countless links, over and over again, attempting to prove my points when they don't need to be. They are factual. On the other hand, your sources are highly debatable.

[The Fatheland]

This resolution proved your true intentions and your "Liberation's" will be repealed one by one. Against.

[Kaboomlandia]

I can't look at your evidence for this proposal when you haven't given us any?

And feel free to call Indo-Malaysia's links post "irrelevant". It is very useful to the opposition's argument because if there was evidence, you wouldn't be sidestepping all critiques of your resolution right now.

And even if this whole "evidence" shtick wasn't an issue, this is still an objectively terrible target for a liberation because the region has an active founder.

There are no critiques because the evidence is completely and utterly unfounded and has no substance in supporting vicious lies that have already been cleared by newer info. The Co-Author/Insider already voiced his concerns to me on Discord, and I had altered the draft accordingly, but the lack of his posting in this thread doesn't validate any point IM makes.

Alright, enough of this. I'm going through the entire thread, linking as much stuff as I can find on both sides. No cherry-picking or doctoring involved. Here's what I found:

Evidence to support your proposal:
- FGGR propaganda images, except SCUR hasn't worked with FGGR for months on end. Also that argument is debunked here. Anti-communism =/= fascism. Either way this evidence doesn't hold water since SCUT isn't actually connected to this region anymore.
- One guy who defected. His points aren't responded to in this thread, so meh. I'll let that one go either way since I don't care enough to investigate further into them.
- Another guy who defected. Later debunked because he left so long ago that the region is no longer the same as it was when he left. Same goes for your "insider".

Evidence against your proposal:
- Screenshots proving that your "inside source" had no idea what was going on
- The leader of SCUT happily revealed tons of information to clear the region, including Discord DM screenshots which are verifiable and real, an open invite to the region's Discord channel, links to the region's forum, and more.
- The leader of a former member of SCUR called bullshit.
- More evidence that SCUT doesn't work with fascists.
- Even more evidence detailing SCUT's opposition to fascism, and revealing that the "treaty" signed with TIO was an unconditional surrender.
- Actual fascists declaring war on SCUT for not being fascist.
- SCUT threatens to take out actual fascist region.

If I missed anything that is actual evidence, feel free to post it. I'm not trying to cherry-pick information here, just calling it as I see it.

The only evidence to support your proposal that hasn't been conclusively debunked is the testimony of one former member, Algermaine. What he said may or may not have been true. I'm not going to go down a massive rabbit hole to investigate him because that's beside the point.

The only post you have made in this thread at all to provide any sort of justification involved anti-communist images in a region that SCUT doesn't even work with anymore. That is not enough evidence to justify this liberation of SCUT. On the other hand, there have been mountains of links, screenshots, and telegram/DM conversations posted in this thread alone to conclusively debunk your entire argument. Morriband has been entirely cooperative in this thread, essentially opening up SCUT's entire public forum, Discord channel, and even posting logs of conversations. They aren't fascist, nor are they fascist sympathizers. They have no reason to lie.

There is hard evidence in opposition of your proposal, and it is not edited, doctored, or cherry-picked. Give it up.

[La Navasse]

I am completely disregarding future posts in this thread by you, Kaboom, simply because you've literally refused to even consider all of the other strong points I had referenced. If you're incapable of even reading the other side's actual evidence, then why even bother?

Your legitimacy, Kaboom, has melted away in my eyes. I couldn't have believed that only a shadow of your once brilliant WA career remains.

[Krualstiken]

I am completely disregarding future posts in this thread by you, Kaboom, simply because you've literally refused to even consider all of the other strong points I had referenced. If you're incapable of even reading the other side's actual evidence, then why even bother?

Your legitimacy, Kaboom, has melted away in my eyes. I couldn't have believed that only a shadow of your once brilliant WA career remains.

You haven't PROVIDED any strong points. At all.

[Kaboomlandia]

Go ahead and block me if you want. I went through the entire thread, reading basically every single post. I am honourable. If I had found any substantive points by you in this thread, I would have posted them. That last comment I posted is basically every single post that had a link to evidence of some sort that was involved. I'm not lying; I have no reason to selectively pick evidence. I only went with HARD evidence in that post, which is, by definition, any kind of link to an actual source, such as forum posts, dispatches, Discord chats, telegram conversations, stuff where the source is reliable. I found one of these posts from you. One.

I didn't read your evidence because except for that one link to the dispatches, there isn't any proof that can actually be verified.

Just. Stop.

[La Navasse]

To the Delegates:
Though there have been consistent and unruly counterarguments against this Liberation, I must voice that this resolution is necessary to pass. SCUT will not stop attempting to disprove whatever they think they can get an audience on by phony evidence, botched explanations, and despicable ignorance of the resolution's strongest points. What is happening here is the warping of the truth, and I trust that you will reach the best conclusion that in regarding nothing but the truth, SCUT is simply another KAISERREICH, only that they're acting as fascist sympathizers and are struggling to keep their disdain of truth alive. This must be combated by this landmark resolution that will deem fascist sympathizers vulnerable until the end, a resolution that will show that the SC stands for nothing but decency, the end of hatred, and the end of those supporting hatred.

[Krualstiken]

=
Your legitimacy, Kaboom, has melted away in my eyes. I couldn't have believed that only a shadow of your once brilliant WA career remains.

Also, ironic. Although, you never had much of one to start with, given that you rode on the wave of anti-nazi sentiments to where you are now, where everyone is starting to see just how misguided your intents really were.

[Krualstiken]

To the Delegates:
Though there have been consistent and unruly counterarguments against this Liberation, I must voice that this resolution is necessary to pass. SCUT will not stop attempting to disprove whatever they think they can get an audience on by phony evidence, botched explanations, and despicable ignorance of the resolution's strongest points. What is happening here is the warping of the truth, and I trust that you will reach the best conclusion that in regarding nothing but the truth, SCUT is simply another KAISERREICH, only that they're acting as fascist sympathizers and are struggling to keep their disdain of truth alive. This must be combated by this landmark resolution that will deem fascist sympathizers vulnerable until the end, a resolution that will show that the SC stands for nothing but decency, the end of hatred, and the end of those supporting hatred.

To the smarter delegates: Ignore everything this guy is saying. All he wants is another badge on his profile. He's provided no solid evidence in his favour, and chooses to blatantly ignore and reject any evidence against him, calling obviously undoctored evidence doctored/fake.

[La Navasse]

Krualstiken, I see, is the Delegate of the Union of Conservative Regions, a future target of a Neoliberation. I'm sure that this, to the Delegates, is definitely an arrow to legitimacy, isn't it?

[Amnesty Recruiter]

Krualstiken, I see, is the Delegate of the Union of Conservative Regions, a future target of a Neoliberation. I'm sure that this, to the Delegates, is definitely an arrow to legitimacy, isn't it?

Oh, and everyone else in the thread disagreeing with you gives no other indication of YOUR illegitimacy?

[Westfacto]

Krualstiken, I see, is the Delegate of the Union of Conservative Regions, a future target of a Neoliberation. I'm sure that this, to the Delegates, is definitely an arrow to legitimacy, isn't it?

Oh wait... you said a Neoliberation... so basically a liberation that will have no effect on the region whatsoever? I would be VERY scared, watchout!

[Morriband]

To the Delegates:
Though there have been consistent and unruly counterarguments against this Liberation, I must voice that this resolution is necessary to pass. SCUT will not stop attempting to disprove whatever they think they can get an audience on by phony evidence, botched explanations, and despicable ignorance of the resolution's strongest points. What is happening here is the warping of the truth, and I trust that you will reach the best conclusion that in regarding nothing but the truth, SCUT is simply another KAISERREICH, only that they're acting as fascist sympathizers and are struggling to keep their disdain of truth alive. This must be combated by this landmark resolution that will deem fascist sympathizers vulnerable until the end, a resolution that will show that the SC stands for nothing but decency, the end of hatred, and the end of those supporting hatred.

There are no critiques because the evidence is completely and utterly unfounded and has no substance in supporting vicious lies that have already been cleared by newer info. The Co-Author/Insider already voiced his concerns to me on Discord, and I had altered the draft accordingly, but the lack of his posting in this thread doesn't validate any point IM makes.

Alright, enough of this. I'm going through the entire thread, linking as much stuff as I can find on both sides. No cherry-picking or doctoring involved. Here's what I found:

Evidence to support your proposal:
- FGGR propaganda images, except SCUR hasn't worked with FGGR for months on end. Also that argument is debunked here. Anti-communism =/= fascism. Either way this evidence doesn't hold water since SCUT isn't actually connected to this region anymore.
- One guy who defected. His points aren't responded to in this thread, so meh. I'll let that one go either way since I don't care enough to investigate further into them.
- Another guy who defected. Later debunked because he left so long ago that the region is no longer the same as it was when he left. Same goes for your "insider".

Evidence against your proposal:
- Screenshots proving that your "inside source" had no idea what was going on
- The leader of SCUT happily revealed tons of information to clear the region, including Discord DM screenshots which are verifiable and real, an open invite to the region's Discord channel, links to the region's forum, and more.
- The leader of a former member of SCUR called bullshit.
- More evidence that SCUT doesn't work with fascists.
- Even more evidence detailing SCUT's opposition to fascism, and revealing that the "treaty" signed with TIO was an unconditional surrender.
- Actual fascists declaring war on SCUT for not being fascist.
- SCUT threatens to take out actual fascist region.

If I missed anything that is actual evidence, feel free to post it. I'm not trying to cherry-pick information here, just calling it as I see it.

The only evidence to support your proposal that hasn't been conclusively debunked is the testimony of one former member, Algermaine. What he said may or may not have been true. I'm not going to go down a massive rabbit hole to investigate him because that's beside the point.

The only post you have made in this thread at all to provide any sort of justification involved anti-communist images in a region that SCUT doesn't even work with anymore. That is not enough evidence to justify this liberation of SCUT. On the other hand, there have been mountains of links, screenshots, and telegram/DM conversations posted in this thread alone to conclusively debunk your entire argument. Morriband has been entirely cooperative in this thread, essentially opening up SCUT's entire public forum, Discord channel, and even posting logs of conversations. They aren't fascist, nor are they fascist sympathizers. They have no reason to lie.

There is hard evidence in opposition of your proposal, and it is not edited, doctored, or cherry-picked. Give it up.

Here ya go:

viewtopic.php?p=33682929#p33682929
viewtopic.php?p=33683275#p33683275
viewtopic.php?p=33696119#p33696119
viewtopic.php?p=33704233#p33704233
viewtopic.php?p=33704817#p33704817 This proves this 'insider' is fake
viewtopic.php?p=33721176#p33721176
viewtopic.php?p=33726059#p33726059
viewtopic.php?p=33732504#p33732504
viewtopic.php?p=33733036#p33733036
viewtopic.php?p=33733214#p33733214
viewtopic.php?p=33734982#p33734982
viewtopic.php?p=33746210#p33746210
viewtopic.php?p=33818472#p33818472 MY FAVOURITE ONE
viewtopic.php?p=33818869#p33818869
viewtopic.php?p=33819026#p33819026
viewtopic.php?p=33824505#p33824505

what a trustworthy author

Nav - You're embarrassing yourself at this point. I put your quote up top followed by all the evidence you refuse to acknowledge. Nothing has been taken out of context. The context for every piece of evidence in our favor is either right there in the link or explained in the link. You've spent this whole thread, almost 15 full pages at the time of me writing this, just going on in circles saying that SCUT is fascist because we support fascism and then altering your statement to say we're authoritarian and then altering it again to say we're fascist sympathizers. You have a grudge with us because you mistakenly believe that we attacked TASA. We did not. Let this crap go.

To those reading this thread, just do your research and come up with your own opinion. I will let the evidence speak for itself.

[Krualstiken]

To the Delegates:
Though there have been consistent and unruly counterarguments against this Liberation, I must voice that this resolution is necessary to pass. SCUT will not stop attempting to disprove whatever they think they can get an audience on by phony evidence, botched explanations, and despicable ignorance of the resolution's strongest points. What is happening here is the warping of the truth, and I trust that you will reach the best conclusion that in regarding nothing but the truth, SCUT is simply another KAISERREICH, only that they're acting as fascist sympathizers and are struggling to keep their disdain of truth alive. This must be combated by this landmark resolution that will deem fascist sympathizers vulnerable until the end, a resolution that will show that the SC stands for nothing but decency, the end of hatred, and the end of those supporting hatred.

Alright, enough of this. I'm going through the entire thread, linking as much stuff as I can find on both sides. No cherry-picking or doctoring involved. Here's what I found:

Evidence to support your proposal:
- FGGR propaganda images, except SCUR hasn't worked with FGGR for months on end. Also that argument is debunked here. Anti-communism =/= fascism. Either way this evidence doesn't hold water since SCUT isn't actually connected to this region anymore.
- One guy who defected. His points aren't responded to in this thread, so meh. I'll let that one go either way since I don't care enough to investigate further into them.
- Another guy who defected. Later debunked because he left so long ago that the region is no longer the same as it was when he left. Same goes for your "insider".

Evidence against your proposal:
- Screenshots proving that your "inside source" had no idea what was going on
- The leader of SCUT happily revealed tons of information to clear the region, including Discord DM screenshots which are verifiable and real, an open invite to the region's Discord channel, links to the region's forum, and more.
- The leader of a former member of SCUR called bullshit.
- More evidence that SCUT doesn't work with fascists.
- Even more evidence detailing SCUT's opposition to fascism, and revealing that the "treaty" signed with TIO was an unconditional surrender.
- Actual fascists declaring war on SCUT for not being fascist.
- SCUT threatens to take out actual fascist region.

If I missed anything that is actual evidence, feel free to post it. I'm not trying to cherry-pick information here, just calling it as I see it.

The only evidence to support your proposal that hasn't been conclusively debunked is the testimony of one former member, Algermaine. What he said may or may not have been true. I'm not going to go down a massive rabbit hole to investigate him because that's beside the point.

The only post you have made in this thread at all to provide any sort of justification involved anti-communist images in a region that SCUT doesn't even work with anymore. That is not enough evidence to justify this liberation of SCUT. On the other hand, there have been mountains of links, screenshots, and telegram/DM conversations posted in this thread alone to conclusively debunk your entire argument. Morriband has been entirely cooperative in this thread, essentially opening up SCUT's entire public forum, Discord channel, and even posting logs of conversations. They aren't fascist, nor are they fascist sympathizers. They have no reason to lie.

There is hard evidence in opposition of your proposal, and it is not edited, doctored, or cherry-picked. Give it up.

Here ya go:

viewtopic.php?p=33682929#p33682929
viewtopic.php?p=33683275#p33683275
viewtopic.php?p=33696119#p33696119
viewtopic.php?p=33704233#p33704233
viewtopic.php?p=33704817#p33704817 This proves this 'insider' is fake
viewtopic.php?p=33721176#p33721176
viewtopic.php?p=33726059#p33726059
viewtopic.php?p=33732504#p33732504
viewtopic.php?p=33733036#p33733036
viewtopic.php?p=33733214#p33733214
viewtopic.php?p=33734982#p33734982
viewtopic.php?p=33746210#p33746210
viewtopic.php?p=33818472#p33818472 MY FAVOURITE ONE
viewtopic.php?p=33818869#p33818869
viewtopic.php?p=33819026#p33819026
viewtopic.php?p=33824505#p33824505

what a trustworthy author

Nav - You're embarrassing yourself at this point. I put your quote up top followed by all the evidence you refuse to acknowledge. Nothing has been taken out of context. The context for every piece of evidence in our favor is either right there in the link or explained in the link. You've spent this whole thread, almost 15 full pages at the time of me writing this, just going on in circles saying that SCUT is fascist because we support fascism and then altering your statement to say we're authoritarian and then altering it again to say we're fascist sympathizers. You have a grudge with us because you mistakenly believe that we attacked TASA. We did not. Let this crap go.

To those reading this thread, just do your research and come up with your own opinion. I will let the evidence speak for itself.

Hopefully, the delegates will be smart enough to realize that La Violin is only doing these to get badges and fame.

[La Navasse]

Nav - You're embarrassing yourself at this point. I put your quote up top followed by all the evidence you refuse to acknowledge. Nothing has been taken out of context. The context for every piece of evidence in our favor is either right there in the link or explained in the link. You've spent this whole thread, almost 15 full pages at the time of me writing this, just going on in circles saying that SCUT is fascist because we support fascism and then altering your statement to say we're authoritarian and then altering it again to say we're fascist sympathizers. You have a grudge with us because you mistakenly believe that we attacked TASA. We did not. Let this crap go.

To those reading this thread, just do your research and come up with your own opinion. I will let the evidence speak for itself.

Your quoting of these misled "evidence posts" have no meaning, and neither does your organization deserve any positive meaning attached to it. Your sad tries at trying to destroy my argument believing that I have any sort of personal grudge is misconstrued. Morriband, this Liberation will go to vote, and the Delegates, especially those of major regions, will decide. I am confident that they will make the right decision for the values of decency, the end of hatred, and the end of those aiding hatred.

[UCR Discipline]

Nav - You're embarrassing yourself at this point. I put your quote up top followed by all the evidence you refuse to acknowledge. Nothing has been taken out of context. The context for every piece of evidence in our favor is either right there in the link or explained in the link. You've spent this whole thread, almost 15 full pages at the time of me writing this, just going on in circles saying that SCUT is fascist because we support fascism and then altering your statement to say we're authoritarian and then altering it again to say we're fascist sympathizers. You have a grudge with us because you mistakenly believe that we attacked TASA. We did not. Let this crap go.

To those reading this thread, just do your research and come up with your own opinion. I will let the evidence speak for itself.

Your quoting of these misled "evidence posts" have no meaning, and neither does your organization deserve any positive meaning attached to it. Your sad tries at trying to destroy my argument believing that I have any sort of personal grudge is misconstrued. Morriband, this Liberation will go to vote, and the Delegates, especially those of major regions, will decide. I am confident that they will make the right decision for the values of decency, the end of hatred, and the end of those aiding hatred.

Gonna quote uhhh myself, here.

What's the bet that, because I'm defending the UCR, La Navaraerasrs will go after my RP region? Another "Nazi collaborator". We have Stahl in my region too, are we going to be condemned and liberated as 'nazis'? I run a clear dictatorship, but that holds no relevance when compared to the fact that it's just an RP region, same as the UCR. Only difference is: we're not as big. That's the *only* difference between us and the UCR. We don't have an oligarchy disguised as a monarchy, but we do have an oligarchy.

I've had plenty of association with regions such as KR and Nazi Europa. I've hung out with the Black Hawks (The old one, back when raiding was more of a meme, not the one after new management that had a desire to raid and destroy, rather than put silly tags in the WFE). I hung out with the gals in FE. Does any of this hold relevance in the slightest? At ALL? Do the people I hang out with define me and the endeavors I seek out? That's the logic you're holding, La Navaneresere. Someone does not become a stripper by hanging out at strip clubs, someone does not become an arms dealer by knowing one. Someone knowing someone or hanging out with someone does not mean that they are collaborators, nor does it mean that they will convert or change their views by any means.

Your constant "liberations" and condemnations have lead the WA to forget this simple fact. Your hyperbole and blatant lies deface your own name, and the name of the SC. You turn into mockery what was once a moderately balanced and fun part of the game. "Ah, we can practice campaigning, debating, and observe the voting process." turned into "We can destroy and deface those that we don't like."

[Prydania]

To the Delegates:
Though there have been consistent and unruly counterarguments against this Liberation, I must voice that this resolution is necessary to pass. SCUT will not stop attempting to disprove whatever they think they can get an audience on by phony evidence, botched explanations, and despicable ignorance of the resolution's strongest points. What is happening here is the warping of the truth, and I trust that you will reach the best conclusion that in regarding nothing but the truth, SCUT is simply another KAISERREICH, only that they're acting as fascist sympathizers and are struggling to keep their disdain of truth alive. This must be combated by this landmark resolution that will deem fascist sympathizers vulnerable until the end, a resolution that will show that the SC stands for nothing but decency, the end of hatred, and the end of those supporting hatred.

I am very close to calling you something that would get me banned.

SCUT is not KREICH. At all. KREICH’s community is infested with Nazis and fascists that the community’s leadership either supports or otherwise fails to condemn.
Meanwhile? I’ve been in SCUT’s Discord. I’ve spoken with a number of their community members. I have yet to come across a single case of fascist or Nazi sympathies.

Your continued lies, deceptions, and untoward behaviour in this matter is intensely disappointing. Your actions are nothing short of reprehensible.

[Razzle Dazzle]

Morriband, this Liberation will go to vote

That's unrealistically optimistic. It's failed multiple times and isn't close to reaching quorum.

[Lenlyvit]

Morriband, this Liberation will go to vote

That's unrealistically optimistic. It's failed multiple times and isn't close to reaching quorum.

Here's an idea, instead of stroking La Navasse's ego anymore how about we all stop posting in the thread? Let him rant all he wants, his arguments have been debunked again and again. Still no support from me, as FGGR and SCUT are not fascist/Nazi/sympathizers. We could all agree on KREICH and NE, but on this one its his opinion against all the rest of us.

[Kokoku]

The New Warsaw Pact will carefully observe the status of this proposal, and vote against once it reaches quorum.

Like the preceding weaponized liberations, we will work against the corruption of the Security Council, until the shame from these proposals ceases these acts.

We wish you the best of luck in your campaign.

[Killer Kitty]

*Deletes from his in-box the fifth telegram telling him to remove his approval of the proposal*

People are going hard in the paint on this one.

[La Navasse]

*Deletes from his in-box the fifth telegram telling him to remove his approval of the proposal*

People are going hard in the paint on this one.

I see.

If there are any nations out there willing to volunteer their PC time to campaigning, it would be appreciated if you contacted me on Discord on Vuon#1900. Copies of the opposition's telegrams would be appreciated as well.

Action, not loud talk, must persevere.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Why is it that in all his telegrams, Aimdar-Goomdar frames this as some kind of East Pacific stratagem? Does the East Pacific support or endorse his actions? If not, why then will they seemingly take no action when at the end of all his campaign material, Aimdar-Goomdar sells his proposal as if he is speaking on their behalf as a staffer at TEP's Ministry of World Assembly Affairs? It seems that the East Pacific has taken or shall soon take action on this topic. My apologies to the government of the East Pacific for my own misunderstanding.

EDIT: This is not to speak at all on the question of Aimdar-Goomdar's lies in his newest message. He claims that this liberation of a region with an active founder will "creat[e] vulnerability" in paragraph 5. It won't do anything, because of the presence of an active founder. And he makes it clear his own personal reasons for seeking liberation in paragraph 3. A region he cares about got invaded, so I guess he will be tilting at windmills for the rest of the year. This is classic behaviour from Aimdar-'Death to the NPO'-Goomdar.

[Kaboomlandia]

*Deletes from his in-box the fifth telegram telling him to remove his approval of the proposal*

People are going hard in the paint on this one.

I see.

If there are any nations out there willing to volunteer their PC time to campaigning, it would be appreciated if you contacted me on Discord on Vuon#1900. Copies of the opposition's telegrams would be appreciated as well.

Action, not loud talk, must persevere.

I wouldn't mind seeing this make quorum, if only to put it to rest once and for all when it gets curbstomped in the voting chambers.