[Shelved] Liberate Arcem (SCUT)

[Chill beats LLC]

Just another attempt by a badge hunting nation, with a personal vendetta, to abuse the WA to push an anti-democratic agenda, by throwing around words like "fascist-affiliated" and "raider friendly". If this comes to vote, I'm AGAINST.

[Morriband]

How in earth did you get to the conclusion of us wanting to work with Nazis when I just said we weren't Nazis? Never mind the numerous times we have openly condemned Nazism and fascism.

SCUT openly condemns whenever it benefits them, and works with them whenever it benefits them, as well. I think this can be shown by your treaties with two fascist regions and your work with them, which can be seen in the dispatches I archived and can be seen in the OP.

And you still haven't proven they're one of those, either.

See above.

That's not how this works genius. Fascist collaborators won't openly condemn fascism. We don't flip flop like you claim we do. Your allegations against us are based on allegations against two regions - one of whom (The FGGR) we haven't had any relationship with for months, as I've said for probably the twentieth time now. As for the HRB, they aren't fascist. I have seen nothing to suggest they are, either. They had a previous iteration that was fascist, but that was *prior* to our alliance. They have since removed any connections to Nazism/fascism as a de facto term of our alliance. You are committing just about every argumentative fallacy in the book in this thread. That tells me that your hatred of SCUT is intense. It's unfounded though. We never did anything to you. Our first interaction was when you came into our discord server back in December, demanding answers for a mission we never did, threatening to put me on trial somewhere, and then left. You have since blocked me for simply trying to follow up with you. Your grudge with us isn't my concern, but this is not the place to settle it. Especially since you're being a hypocritical badge hunter that is losing their dignity with every post in defense of this "liberation".

Make like Frozen and let it go.

[The Stalker]

To repost my comment from a different liberate thread;

I get the liberate Nazi Europe because they're the biggest Nazi region, and Liberate KAISERREICH cause they're always denying their fascist/Nazi behavior, but unless a region is actually founderless I don't think we need to keep liberating regions with negative reputations.

[Westfacto]

✓ forcibly suppressing minority ideologies and views
✓ limiting a region's right to sovereignty
✓ purposely misusing SC mechanics to their advantage

La Navasse can you please condemn New Ex Patria for being a fascist?

[North Saitama]

✓ forcibly suppressing minority ideologies and views
✓ limiting a region's right to sovereignty
✓ purposely misusing SC mechanics to their advantage

La Navasse can you please condemn New Ex Patria for being a fascist?

Don't give him any ideas.

[La Navasse]

SCUT openly condemns whenever it benefits them, and works with them whenever it benefits them, as well. I think this can be shown by your treaties with two fascist regions and your work with them, which can be seen in the dispatches I archived and can be seen in the OP.See above.

That's not how this works genius. Fascist collaborators won't openly condemn fascism. We don't flip flop like you claim we do. Your allegations against us are based on allegations against two regions - one of whom (The FGGR) we haven't had any relationship with for months, as I've said for probably the twentieth time now. As for the HRB, they aren't fascist. I have seen nothing to suggest they are, either. They had a previous iteration that was fascist, but that was *prior* to our alliance. They have since removed any connections to Nazism/fascism as a de facto term of our alliance. You are committing just about every argumentative fallacy in the book in this thread. That tells me that your hatred of SCUT is intense. It's unfounded though. We never did anything to you. Our first interaction was when you came into our discord server back in December, demanding answers for a mission we never did, threatening to put me on trial somewhere, and then left. You have since blocked me for simply trying to follow up with you. Your grudge with us isn't my concern, but this is not the place to settle it. Especially since you're being a hypocritical badge hunter that is losing their dignity with every post in defense of this "liberation".

Make like Frozen and let it go.

Your allegations and alternative facts are completely false.

If this submission does not make it to quorum, Liberate THRB will be moved up to the front of my drafting quorum.

[Kaboomlandia]

That's not how this works genius. Fascist collaborators won't openly condemn fascism. We don't flip flop like you claim we do. Your allegations against us are based on allegations against two regions - one of whom (The FGGR) we haven't had any relationship with for months, as I've said for probably the twentieth time now. As for the HRB, they aren't fascist. I have seen nothing to suggest they are, either. They had a previous iteration that was fascist, but that was *prior* to our alliance. They have since removed any connections to Nazism/fascism as a de facto term of our alliance. You are committing just about every argumentative fallacy in the book in this thread. That tells me that your hatred of SCUT is intense. It's unfounded though. We never did anything to you. Our first interaction was when you came into our discord server back in December, demanding answers for a mission we never did, threatening to put me on trial somewhere, and then left. You have since blocked me for simply trying to follow up with you. Your grudge with us isn't my concern, but this is not the place to settle it. Especially since you're being a hypocritical badge hunter that is losing their dignity with every post in defense of this "liberation".

Make like Frozen and let it go.

Your allegations and alternative facts are completely false.

Trump-style rhetoric is not endearing.

If this submission does not make it to quorum, Liberate THRB will be moved up to the front of my drafting quorum.

Which also doesn't have a password. And has a founder. And you haven't written anything for that resolution either.

Can you please stop completely bastardizing the concept of a Liberation by trying to throw it at regions where it will have absolutely no effect whatsoever?

[La Navasse]

Your allegations and alternative facts are completely false.

Trump-style rhetoric is not endearing.

If this submission does not make it to quorum, Liberate THRB will be moved up to the front of my drafting quorum.

Which also doesn't have a password. And has a founder. And you haven't written anything for that resolution either.

Can you please stop completely bastardizing the concept of a Liberation by trying to throw it at regions where it will have absolutely no effect whatsoever?

There is no concept of bastardization going on regarding Liberations. There's only the WA Authors that fall out of favor, and those who adapt.

[Kaboomlandia]

Trump-style rhetoric is not endearing.


Which also doesn't have a password. And has a founder. And you haven't written anything for that resolution either.

Can you please stop completely bastardizing the concept of a Liberation by trying to throw it at regions where it will have absolutely no effect whatsoever?

There is no concept of bastardization going on regarding Liberations. There's only the WA Authors that fall out of favor, and those who adapt.

It really isn't that difficult to provide evidence to back up your claims in this proposal - just post links!

Your constant sidestepping of this simple request, from multiple people, makes me very disinclined to actually believe you.

[La Navasse]

There is no concept of bastardization going on regarding Liberations. There's only the WA Authors that fall out of favor, and those who adapt.

It really isn't that difficult to provide evidence to back up your claims in this proposal - just post links!

Your constant sidestepping of this simple request, from multiple people, makes me very disinclined to actually believe you.

There is no request that you have. If you're trying to find evidence, just look at the recently passed Liberations, Kaboom.

[Kaboomlandia]

It really isn't that difficult to provide evidence to back up your claims in this proposal - just post links!

Your constant sidestepping of this simple request, from multiple people, makes me very disinclined to actually believe you.

There is no request that you have. If you're trying to find evidence, just look at the recently passed Liberations, Kaboom.

That's comparing apples to oranges. Nazi Europa is an obvious one, Femdom Empire was aided by Nazis, and it was the worst-kept secret in the world that K-Reich is a fascist region. Those were liberations against obviously and previously known Nazi/fascist regions, even if I don't agree with the concept of liberating foundered regions.

What you're doing here is basically trying to emulate that kind of resolution against regions you don't like. Except without any of the substance or evidence to support your claims.

The burden of proof is on you to prove that this is actually a fascist region. Not me.

[La Navasse]

There is no request that you have. If you're trying to find evidence, just look at the recently passed Liberations, Kaboom.

That's comparing apples to oranges. Nazi Europa is an obvious one, Femdom Empire was aided by Nazis, and it was the worst-kept secret in the world that K-Reich is a fascist region. Those were liberations against obviously and previously known Nazi/fascist regions, even if I don't agree with the concept of liberating foundered regions.

What you're doing here is basically trying to emulate that kind of resolution against regions you don't like. Except without any of the substance or evidence to support your claims.

Do you not like fascist collaborating regions? I find regions that are Nazi, fascist, or support regions that practice either of those ideologies good for Liberation. I find your consideration of treaties and mutual defense of fascist regions not as "substance or evidence" deeply disturbing.

I have no burden of proof if you're not willing to accept my resolutions based on a personal grudge.

[Kaboomlandia]

That's comparing apples to oranges. Nazi Europa is an obvious one, Femdom Empire was aided by Nazis, and it was the worst-kept secret in the world that K-Reich is a fascist region. Those were liberations against obviously and previously known Nazi/fascist regions, even if I don't agree with the concept of liberating foundered regions.

What you're doing here is basically trying to emulate that kind of resolution against regions you don't like. Except without any of the substance or evidence to support your claims.

Do you not like fascist collaborating regions? I find regions that are Nazi, fascist, or support regions that practice either of those ideologies good for Liberation. I find your consideration of treaties and mutual defense of fascist regions not as "substance or evidence" deeply disturbing.

I hate Nazis as much as the next guy. The "treaty" that you claim as evidence was dead nine months ago. Only one of the regions in your OP is actually fascist - Farkasfalka, and a liberation would do less than nothing because it has an active founder, no password, and a non-executive delegate. The rest have publicly claimed, in easily accessible posts that have been linked in this thread, that they stand in opposition to fascism. This proposal has failed twice already despite you bombarding delegates with multiple campaign telegrams.

And there is no personal grudge against this resolution. I was out of the game completely for four months - when I left in December, these kinds of Liberations with foundered regions weren't a thing. This proposal is simply not going to accomplish anything useful other than witch-hunting a region that isn't fascist. I'm going to cite Russell's Teapot here in that you have made borderline-unverifiable accusations. I don't have to provide anything. You need to prove your point.

tl;dr: I do not have to disprove your points. You need to provide evidence.

[La Navasse]

Do you not like fascist collaborating regions? I find regions that are Nazi, fascist, or support regions that practice either of those ideologies good for Liberation. I find your consideration of treaties and mutual defense of fascist regions not as "substance or evidence" deeply disturbing.

I hate Nazis as much as the next guy. The "treaty" that you claim as evidence was dead nine months ago. Only one of the regions in your OP is actually fascist - Farkasfalka, and a liberation would do less than nothing because it has an active founder, no password, and a non-executive delegate. The rest have publicly claimed, in easily accessible posts that have been linked in this thread, that they stand in opposition to fascism. This proposal has failed twice already despite you bombarding delegates with multiple campaign telegrams.

And there is no personal grudge against this resolution. I was out of the game completely for four months - when I left in December, these kinds of Liberations with foundered regions weren't a thing. This proposal is simply not going to accomplish anything useful other than witch-hunting a region that isn't fascist. I'm going to cite Russell's Teapot here in that you have made borderline-unverifiable accusations. I don't have to provide anything. You need to prove your point.

tl;dr: I do not have to disprove your points. You need to provide evidence.

I question your legitimacy if you are willing to believe in a couple of randomly conceived dispatches that have no inherent meaning other than shallowly convincing those not looking for a thorough explanation of non-fascism that the subject region is not fascist. Furthermore, your reference of only one treaty is disturbing, as there are two for two fascist regions both ardently supported by SCUT.

There is no witch-hunt, and there is no reason to not Liberate a region that actively collaborated with, aided, and defends their fascist allies, which in the same manner as KAISERREICH, vigorously deny any semblance of fascism.

[Kaboomlandia]

I'm not going to expend any more energy arguing with you because throughout this entire thread, your arguments to defend this proposal have been to assume that anyone producing evidence to oppose the proposal fabricated it or is lying. Have a nice day.

[Razzle Dazzle]

I question your legitimacy if you are willing to believe in a couple of randomly conceived dispatches that have no inherent meaning other than shallowly convincing those not looking for a thorough explanation of non-fascism that the subject region is not fascist.

And yet, no matter how questionable said dispatches are, bad evidence is better than no evidence.

Furthermore, your reference of only one treaty is disturbing,

Why are you disturbed by a minor factual error? That's a strange reaction.

as there are two for two fascist regions both ardently supported by SCUT.

As explained by the members of SCUT, those treaties were signed as an admission of defeat on the behalf of the fascists. The Treaty of Versailles exists, and yet you wouldn't say that the Allies "ardently supported" Germany.

There is no witch-hunt, and there is no reason to not Liberate a region that actively collaborated with, aided, and defends their fascist allies,

Again, a claim you have failed spectacularly to provide evidence for

which in the same manner as KAISERREICH, vigorously deny any semblance of fascism.

No, because SCUT actually provides reasons as to why they aren't fascist.

[La Navasse]

I question your legitimacy if you are willing to believe in a couple of randomly conceived dispatches that have no inherent meaning other than shallowly convincing those not looking for a thorough explanation of non-fascism that the subject region is not fascist.

And yet, no matter how questionable said dispatches are, bad evidence is better than no evidence.

Furthermore, your reference of only one treaty is disturbing,

Why are you disturbed by a minor factual error? That's a strange reaction.

as there are two for two fascist regions both ardently supported by SCUT.

As explained by the members of SCUT, those treaties were signed as an admission of defeat on the behalf of the fascists. The Treaty of Versailles exists, and yet you wouldn't say that the Allies "ardently supported" Germany.

There is no witch-hunt, and there is no reason to not Liberate a region that actively collaborated with, aided, and defends their fascist allies,

Again, a claim you have failed spectacularly to provide evidence for which in the same manner as KAISERREICH, vigorously deny any semblance of fascism.
No, because SCUT actually provides reasons as to why they aren't fascist.

If you haven't looked at my previous posts and links, I think that sums up how you haven't seen any evidence.

I'm not going to expend any more energy arguing with you because throughout this entire thread, your arguments to defend this proposal have been to assume that anyone producing evidence to oppose the proposal fabricated it or is lying. Have a nice day.

None of the evidence brought up since my last edit to the draft had been legitimate, primarily as most of it was brought up by SCUT or their allies. Good day.

[Omicron Convenience IV]

Very happy this proposal has got ... what? 18 approvals after a full campaign to delegates? You can't make the extent of this proposal's failure up.

[Indo-Malaysia]

I'm not going to expend any more energy arguing with you because throughout this entire thread, your arguments to defend this proposal have been to assume that anyone producing evidence to oppose the proposal fabricated it or is lying. Have a nice day.

I was about to say dont bother but you beat me.

I publically proved the lack of evidence in the last page. A request for hard evidence was met with ad hominem and a refusal to debate

[New Legland]

None of the evidence brought up since my last edit to the draft had been legitimate, primarily as most of it was brought up by SCUT or their allies. Good day.

I have no words...

[La Navasse]

I'm not going to expend any more energy arguing with you because throughout this entire thread, your arguments to defend this proposal have been to assume that anyone producing evidence to oppose the proposal fabricated it or is lying. Have a nice day.

I was about to say dont bother but you beat me.

I publically proved the lack of evidence in the last page. A request for hard evidence was met with ad hominem and a refusal to debate

Thus ignoring FGGR's assistance of KReich regarding FE, their two Nazi-related posters in their Propaganda, their support of their fascist allies in their master dispatch, along with other fascist elements, and their own treaty with SCUT, where SCUT has supported and defended them from controversy. Definitely all irrelevant. Definitely.

[New Legland]

I was about to say dont bother but you beat me.

I publically proved the lack of evidence in the last page. A request for hard evidence was met with ad hominem and a refusal to debate

Thus ignoring FGGR's assistance of KReich regarding FE, their two Nazi-related posters in their Propaganda, their support of their fascist allies in their master dispatch, along with other fascist elements, and their own treaty with SCUT, where SCUT has supported and defended them from controversy. Definitely all irrelevant. Definitely.

We really haven't done anything with FGGR, but you're probably going to ignore this or refute this with the argument of "it's inherently biased because they're from SCUT".

[La Navasse]

Thus ignoring FGGR's assistance of KReich regarding FE, their two Nazi-related posters in their Propaganda, their support of their fascist allies in their master dispatch, along with other fascist elements, and their own treaty with SCUT, where SCUT has supported and defended them from controversy. Definitely all irrelevant. Definitely.

We really haven't done anything with FGGR, but you're probably going to ignore this or refute this with the argument of "it's inherently biased because they're from SCUT".

Are you not from SCUT? You "really haven't" done anything?

You've done some things, if not quite a number.

[New Legland]

We really haven't done anything with FGGR, but you're probably going to ignore this or refute this with the argument of "it's inherently biased because they're from SCUT".

Are you not from SCUT? You "really haven't" done anything?

You've done some things, if not quite a number.

We made a treaty with FGGR, and we called it a day. Nothing has happened since and FGGR isn't even fascist.

[Prydania]

LN? Enough.