[Shelved] Liberate Arcem (SCUT)

[La Navasse]

I believe that Neoliberations aren't necessarily a good solution, but are the better of the two evils - the other being the "badge of honor" called the Condemnation.

My signature, which indicates my association with TEP, does not mean I'm speaking on its behalf, which I have never done. Therefore, why does a "Staffer" make any difference?

The only point that you've brought up mainly was FGGR, and I've already disproven that with the Propaganda posters (those two anti-Communist posters actually referred to Anti-Komintern, a literal Nazi department during Nazi Germany) and with their main list of dispatches, which along with other fascist elements, includes dispatches of The Holy Bunicken Alliance and Femdom Empire as well.

My point is, Neoliberations in my view are a necessary evil with the current SC infrastructure that we have. By all means, if SCUT cut ties with those two offending regions, my other grievances should be rendered moot. However, it does not appear to be that it's willing to do such at this time.

1. There is a third solution, called "doing absolutely nothing". Seems to work just fine, ever thought of that?
2. Again, think of this from the reader's perspective, getting that telegram. They don't know what your intent is by signing your telegram as Staffer of TEP, and a rational person will assume it's in an official capacity.
3. Arcem doesn't even work with FGGR so this doesn't mean anything.

1. I dislike that solution severely. At the very least, SCUT should cut all ties with FGGR and THRB.
2. I have "A Proud Executive Staffer" in my signature. I'm not regarded as the voice of TEP either, am I?
3. Their treaty is already too much.

[Kaboomlandia]

1. The reason you dislike the solution, which works perfectly fine, is because you want to be the face of the grand anti-fascist SC movement. And they have already cut all ties with those regions.
2. Your signature is a different entity than your telegrams. All I was saying about your signature is that it's the exact same line that you signed your telegrams with.
3.

3. Their treaty is was already too much.

Fixed that for you.

[Devi Vytherin]

1. There is a third solution, called "doing absolutely nothing". Seems to work just fine, ever thought of that?
2. Again, think of this from the reader's perspective, getting that telegram. They don't know what your intent is by signing your telegram as Staffer of TEP, and a rational person will assume it's in an official capacity.
3. Arcem doesn't even work with FGGR so this doesn't mean anything.

1. I dislike that solution severely. At the very least, SCUT should cut all ties with FGGR and THRB.
2. I have "A Proud Executive Staffer" in my signature. I'm not regarded as the voice of TEP either, am I?
3. Their treaty is already too much.

To people aware of you and your history, you're not seen as speaking for TEP. To the average delegate, who only sees your claim to a position as TEP staffer, it's a different story.

[La Navasse]

1. The reason you dislike the solution, which works perfectly fine, is because you want to be the face of the grand anti-fascist SC movement. And they have already cut all ties with those regions.
2. Your signature is a different entity than your telegrams. All I was saying about your signature is that it's the exact same line that you signed your telegrams with.
3.

3. Their treaty is was already too much.

Fixed that for you.

1. They haven't cut all ties with those regions - they still have their treaties in place.
2. It's the exact same line; therefore, why should it be regarded any differently in a telegram?
3. Still existent, I believe?

[Kaboomlandia]

Regarding the treaties: It has been conclusively said in this thread ad nauseum that those treaties fell into complete disuse almost a year ago.

Regarding the signature/telegram line, context is everything. The same line has completely different meaning in your signature than it does when you're signing a campaign telegram with it.

[La Navasse]

Regarding the treaties: It has been conclusively said in this thread ad nauseum that those treaties fell into complete disuse almost a year ago.

Regarding the signature/telegram line, context is everything. The same line has completely different meaning in your signature than it does when you're signing a campaign telegram with it.

1. Only the FGGR treaty had been essentially disused - the THRB treaty is still in full functionality.
2. I disagree. It states a position, not representation.

[Imperium Anglorum]

If that were a reasonable position vis-à-vis misrepresentation, one would still be a member of the WA staff. One is not. Your protests here, especially regarding something that many regions hold very dear, betray a fundamental lack of knowledge and experience with interegional diplomacy.

[Kaboomlandia]

Regarding the treaties: It has been conclusively said in this thread ad nauseum that those treaties fell into complete disuse almost a year ago.

Regarding the signature/telegram line, context is everything. The same line has completely different meaning in your signature than it does when you're signing a campaign telegram with it.

1. Only the FGGR treaty had been essentially disused - the THRB treaty is still in full functionality.
2. I disagree. It states a position, not representation.

Even if that is true, Bunicken has never raided with Arcem and actually had a war with K-Reich that led to them becoming not-fascist. This is stated elsewhere in the thread, which you would know if you had read the massive evidence compilation I was nice enough to put together.

[La Navasse]

1. Only the FGGR treaty had been essentially disused - the THRB treaty is still in full functionality.
2. I disagree. It states a position, not representation.

Even if that is true, Bunicken has never raided with Arcem and actually had a war with K-Reich that led to them becoming not-fascist. This is stated elsewhere in the thread, which you would know if you had read the massive evidence compilation I was nice enough to put together.

THRB is fascist regardless, and is regarded as such by most major Delegates. They may have had conflict with KR, but that does not imply any change in ideology.

[Kaboomlandia]

Even if that is true, Bunicken has never raided with Arcem and actually had a war with K-Reich that led to them becoming not-fascist. This is stated elsewhere in the thread, which you would know if you had read the massive evidence compilation I was nice enough to put together.

THRB is fascist regardless, and is regarded as such by most major Delegates. They may have had conflict with KR, but that does not imply any change in ideology.

I did a quick search in Gameplay for "Bunicken".

The last search term there came from the summer of 2017. They aren't relevant in GP.

I'd like to see hard evidence of these "major delegates" condemning Bunicken as fascist. Oh, and the hard evidence for this proposal too, while we're at it.

[La Navasse]

THRB is fascist regardless, and is regarded as such by most major Delegates. They may have had conflict with KR, but that does not imply any change in ideology.

I did a quick search in Gameplay for "Bunicken".

The last search term there came from the summer of 2017. They aren't relevant in GP.

I'd like to see hard evidence of these "major delegates" condemning Bunicken as fascist. Oh, and the hard evidence for this proposal too, while we're at it.

I think the long trail of "Bunicken" regions that have been taken away as fascist regions is quite hard. See https://www.nationstates.net/page=list_ ... en?start=0 I would say major Delegates regard Bunicken as fascist - there haven't been direct condemnations by the GCR Delegates at least.

If SCUT desires to settle this by relinquishing both of its treaties with FGGR and THRB permanently, I would pull this.

[Kaboomlandia]

I did a quick search in Gameplay for "Bunicken".

The last search term there came from the summer of 2017. They aren't relevant in GP.

I'd like to see hard evidence of these "major delegates" condemning Bunicken as fascist. Oh, and the hard evidence for this proposal too, while we're at it.

I think the long trail of "Bunicken" regions that have been taken away as fascist regions is quite hard. See https://www.nationstates.net/page=list_ ... en?start=0 I would say major Delegates regard Bunicken as fascist - there haven't been direct condemnations by the GCR Delegates at least.

If SCUT desires to settle this by relinquishing both of its treaties with FGGR and THRB permanently, I would pull this.

- All of those regions are dead except the one.
- All of those dead regions have already been refounded by anti-fascist forces, except for one which Fark got to first. This doesn't add to your argument at all because they're copycat regions with no relation to the actual one.
- The only alive region in that list isn't fascist anymore. They've publicly renounced fascism, I'm not sure what more you want.
- Way to continually sidestep everyone's reasonable requests for hard evidence. It's not that hard to provide. If you have any, that is.

[La Navasse]

I think the long trail of "Bunicken" regions that have been taken away as fascist regions is quite hard. See https://www.nationstates.net/page=list_ ... en?start=0 I would say major Delegates regard Bunicken as fascist - there haven't been direct condemnations by the GCR Delegates at least.

If SCUT desires to settle this by relinquishing both of its treaties with FGGR and THRB permanently, I would pull this.

- All of those regions are dead except the one.
- All of those dead regions have already been refounded by anti-fascist forces, except for one which Fark got to first. This doesn't add to your argument at all because they're copycat regions with no relation to the actual one.
- The only alive region in that list isn't fascist anymore. They've publicly renounced fascism, I'm not sure what more you want.
- Way to continually sidestep everyone's reasonable requests for hard evidence. It's not that hard to provide. If you have any, that is.

All those regions are dead, of course, due to Bunicken's fascism. I refuse to consider THRB as not fascist and having "publicly renounced fascism" - their legitimacy train had passed long ago. Finally, I have consistently given links to hard evidence, and furthermore, my offer of settlement is my most reasonable offer yet before a resubmission next week. If SCUT permanently cuts ties with FGGR and THRB, then I will pull this proposal.

[Kaboomlandia]

- All of those regions are dead except the one.
- All of those dead regions have already been refounded by anti-fascist forces, except for one which Fark got to first. This doesn't add to your argument at all because they're copycat regions with no relation to the actual one.
- The only alive region in that list isn't fascist anymore. They've publicly renounced fascism, I'm not sure what more you want.
- Way to continually sidestep everyone's reasonable requests for hard evidence. It's not that hard to provide. If you have any, that is.

All those regions are dead, of course, due to Bunicken's fascism. I refuse to consider THRB as not fascist and having "publicly renounced fascism" - their legitimacy train had passed long ago. Finally, I have consistently given links to hard evidence, and furthermore, my offer of settlement is my most reasonable offer yet before a resubmission next week. If SCUT permanently cuts ties with FGGR and THRB, then I will pull this proposal.

I can't speak for Arcem, but I don't think they're worried about that possibility.

Also TIL that one link = consistent.

[La Navasse]

All those regions are dead, of course, due to Bunicken's fascism. I refuse to consider THRB as not fascist and having "publicly renounced fascism" - their legitimacy train had passed long ago. Finally, I have consistently given links to hard evidence, and furthermore, my offer of settlement is my most reasonable offer yet before a resubmission next week. If SCUT permanently cuts ties with FGGR and THRB, then I will pull this proposal.

I can't speak for Arcem, but I don't think they're worried about that possibility.

Also TIL that one link = consistent.

Sure.

I posted multiple links. That was simply one of them.

[Kaboomlandia]

I can't speak for Arcem, but I don't think they're worried about that possibility.

Also TIL that one link = consistent.

Sure.

I posted multiple links. That was simply one of them.

Go ahead. Reply to this post and link me to every post in this thread where you provided hard evidence in the form of links or screenshots.

I'll wait.

[La Navasse]

Sure.

I posted multiple links. That was simply one of them.

Go ahead. Reply to this post and link me to every post in this thread where you provided hard evidence in the form of links or screenshots.

I'll wait.

Will that do anything? You've obviously already made arguments against them before, and if you're trying to make a point that I haven't posted many links, that's null.

I rather focus on a solution rather than the petty measuring of who has the longest list of links.

[Kaboomlandia]

Go ahead. Reply to this post and link me to every post in this thread where you provided hard evidence in the form of links or screenshots.

I'll wait.

Will that do anything? You've obviously already made arguments against them before, and if you're trying to make a point that I haven't posted many links, that's null.

I rather focus on a solution rather than petty measuring of who has the longest list of links.

You don't want to post links because you don't want them to be argued?

I'm not being judgmental. I just want to see what hard evidence you have. If there's hard evidence of Arcem being fascist, I'm open to a civil discussion.

[La Navasse]

Will that do anything? You've obviously already made arguments against them before, and if you're trying to make a point that I haven't posted many links, that's null.

I rather focus on a solution rather than petty measuring of who has the longest list of links.

You don't want to post links because you don't want them to be argued?

I'm not being judgmental. I just want to see what hard evidence you have. If there's hard evidence of Arcem being fascist, I'm open to a civil discussion.

Quite honestly, because we've gone over these links already. There's no need to stir up the dumpster fire.

Please. I have never claimed Arcem/SCUT is fascist, only that they are fascist sympathizers. If they settle this by permanently relinquishing ties with FGGR and THRB, I will pull this proposal as well.

[Kaboomlandia]

You don't want to post links because you don't want them to be argued?

I'm not being judgmental. I just want to see what hard evidence you have. If there's hard evidence of Arcem being fascist, I'm open to a civil discussion.

Quite honestly, because we've gone over these links already. There's no need to stir up the dumpster fire.

Please. I have never claimed Arcem/SCUT is fascist, only that they are fascist sympathizers. If they settle this by permanently relinquishing ties with FGGR and THRB, I will pull this proposal as well.

It's not "stirring up a dumpster fire" to provide hard evidence; it will actually help your case. Although it's a little beyond saving at this point.

And you're not going to get far with an ultimatum without providing hard evidence, plus you're one person against the world.

[La Navasse]

Quite honestly, because we've gone over these links already. There's no need to stir up the dumpster fire.

Please. I have never claimed Arcem/SCUT is fascist, only that they are fascist sympathizers. If they settle this by permanently relinquishing ties with FGGR and THRB, I will pull this proposal as well.

It's not "stirring up a dumpster fire" to provide hard evidence; it will actually help your case. Although it's a little beyond saving at this point.

And you're not going to get far with an ultimatum without providing hard evidence, plus you're one person against the world.

I have provided hard evidence, and there's no reason to bring it up again except for you to attack all of my points all over again. The hard evidence has already been provided.

Secondly, framing this as the world against me is quite clearly false - I don't have 102 WA puppets, at the very least.

[Kaboomlandia]

It's not "stirring up a dumpster fire" to provide hard evidence; it will actually help your case. Although it's a little beyond saving at this point.

And you're not going to get far with an ultimatum without providing hard evidence, plus you're one person against the world.

I have provided hard evidence

Good. Link me to it.

and there's no reason to bring it up again except for you to attack all of my points all over again. The hard evidence has already been provided.

You know the point of writing a resolution is to debate things, right?

Secondly, framing this as the world against me is quite clearly false - I don't have 102 WA puppets, at the very least.

At least 95% of the people in this thread oppose this resolution.

[Indo-Malaysia]

- All of those regions are dead except the one.
- All of those dead regions have already been refounded by anti-fascist forces, except for one which Fark got to first. This doesn't add to your argument at all because they're copycat regions with no relation to the actual one.
- The only alive region in that list isn't fascist anymore. They've publicly renounced fascism, I'm not sure what more you want.
- Way to continually sidestep everyone's reasonable requests for hard evidence. It's not that hard to provide. If you have any, that is.

All those regions are dead, of course, due to Bunicken's fascism. I refuse to consider THRB as not fascist and having "publicly renounced fascism" - their legitimacy train had passed long ago. Finally,I have consistently given links to hard evidence, and furthermore, my offer of settlement is my most reasonable offer yet before a resubmission next week. If SCUT permanently cuts ties with FGGR and THRB, then I will pull this proposal.

Hahahahaha, good one.

Wait.. Your being serious right?

We posted plenty of hard evidence disproving you, and you tried to brush it off by saying 'well I said it's evil so that's the way it is'.
You have consistently failed to provide evidence, and I doubt any of the GCR's want to attack an anti-Fascist region.
Give me a call when Liberate ANTIFA, Liberate The MT Army and Liberate North Korea pop up because they seen a Nazi somewhere.

[Indo-Malaysia]

It's not "stirring up a dumpster fire" to provide hard evidence; it will actually help your case. Although it's a little beyond saving at this point.

And you're not going to get far with an ultimatum without providing hard evidence, plus you're one person against the world.

I have provided hard evidence, and there's no reason to bring it up again except for you to attack all of my points all over again. The hard evidence has already been provided.

Secondly, framing this as the world against me is quite clearly false - I don't have 102 WA puppets, at the very least.

102 out of how many delegates? Exactly.

[La Navasse]

I have provided hard evidence, and there's no reason to bring it up again except for you to attack all of my points all over again. The hard evidence has already been provided.

Secondly, framing this as the world against me is quite clearly false - I don't have 102 WA puppets, at the very least.

102 out of how many delegates? Exactly.

102 out of 106, despite three counter-campaigns, one of which you ran, which clearly show that your attempt to stifle support failed. I may have failed to reach quorum, but I have demonstrated I have considerable, strong, and continuous support across submissions.

All those regions are dead, of course, due to Bunicken's fascism. I refuse to consider THRB as not fascist and having "publicly renounced fascism" - their legitimacy train had passed long ago. Finally,I have consistently given links to hard evidence, and furthermore, my offer of settlement is my most reasonable offer yet before a resubmission next week. If SCUT permanently cuts ties with FGGR and THRB, then I will pull this proposal.

Hahahahaha, good one.

Wait.. Your being serious right?

We posted plenty of hard evidence disproving you, and you tried to brush it off by saying 'well I said it's evil so that's the way it is'.
You have consistently failed to provide evidence, and I doubt any of the GCR's want to attack an anti-Fascist region.
Give me a call when Liberate ANTIFA, Liberate The MT Army and Liberate North Korea pop up because they seen a Nazi somewhere.

Bring up new points then, and stop trying to get me to go through all of my old points again. We're looking for solutions, not conflicts.

I have provided hard evidence

Good. Link me to it.

and there's no reason to bring it up again except for you to attack all of my points all over again. The hard evidence has already been provided.

You know the point of writing a resolution is to debate things, right?

Yes, except when you're running out of points to debate and try to get me to get all of my links for you so that you can go through them all over again.

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Secondly, framing this as the world against me is quite clearly false - I don't have 102 WA puppets, at the very least.

At least 95% of the people in this thread oppose this resolution.

Whatever players in this thread that you're referencing are not representative of all the Delegates in the WA, nor of all of the Members, either.