[Shelved] Liberate Arcem (SCUT)

[La Navasse]

Additionally, having peace treaties with fascists implies, at the very least, fascist sympathy.

If that's the case, you should be called a fascist sympathizer. I wouldn't be surprised if you were proposed this under the pretense that it was for the SCUT being fascist and instead you instead holding a personal grudge over an unauthorized raid on your region considering you seemed to have no problem working with actual Nazis.

I had been, and that matter had already been addressed in SC Resolution #238, "Repeal Liberate Dank Memes", by Tim-Opolis. However, I have been opposing fascists and Nazis ever since, unlike SCUT, which has still been supporting and defending its fascist allies and its relations with them. Additionally, I have written resolutions against them, most notably SC Resolution #244 and the likely-to-pass future SC Resolution #246.

Nations and organizations are defined by their actions, and the time that they did them. SCUT appears to have absolutely no problem to actually work with Nazis, seeing that they are supporting and defending their fascist allies. On the other hand, I would never work with fascists, let alone Nazis, and have not done so for nearly two years.

[Morriband]

If that's the case, you should be called a fascist sympathizer. I wouldn't be surprised if you were proposed this under the pretense that it was for the SCUT being fascist and instead you instead holding a personal grudge over an unauthorized raid on your region considering you seemed to have no problem working with actual Nazis.

I had been, and that matter had already been addressed in SC Resolution #238, "Repeal Liberate Dank Memes", by Tim-Opolis. However, I have been opposing fascists and Nazis ever since, unlike SCUT, which has still been supporting and defending its fascist allies and its relations with them. Additionally, I have written resolutions against them, most notably SC Resolution #244 and the likely-to-pass future SC Resolution #246.

Nations and organizations are defined by their actions, and the time that they did them. SCUT appears to have absolutely no problem to actually work with Nazis, seeing that they are supporting and defending their fascist allies. On the other hand, I would never work with fascists, let alone Nazis, and have not done so for nearly two years.

So you've ignored it (purposefully or otherwise) every time I've said it already so I'll say it again:

SCUT Condemns Nazism and Fascism. We do not support those ideologies. This whole "guilt-by-association" thing is McCarthyism. The only real supporters you have are people that have personal grudges/issues with SCUT. Even people that don't like us (i.e. Lenlyvit) have called out your proposal for what it truly is: an attempt to weaponize the WA against us because you're still mad about an unauthorized raid (meaning that we did NOT authorize, know about, or support it). I have told you before (the first time being back in December on Discord) that we did not authorize nor support that mission - yet you are here claiming that we did because it suits your story.

Here's the funny thing: you claim that we're fascists and raiders, yet we're objectively not fascist - even the people who don't like us agree with that, as I've said. Beyond that, we do far more liberations/detags than we do actual raids. Our most recent acquisition was on March 7. It wasn't even a raid or a refound. A dispatch (I can't remember where, but it was one of our enemies), had a region link to Random Enemy Region as a placeholder. I founded a region with that title as a joke. Prior to that was The Athaeters - a region we refounded, since it was a raider territory. Other than that, most of our regional acquisitions have been when groups declare war on us and we invade their territories. Other than that, we fall more in line with defenders, anyways. The point here is that no real fascist does defense missions. We do.

[Morriband]

Disturbed by the SCUT’s numerous Holding and Outpost regions, essentially trophy regions, which it possesses with the help of fascist regions, most notably Federation of Greater German Republics and The Holy Reich of Bunicken, both of which are KAISERREICH allies;

This is still wrong. This is yet more information you seem to choose to ignore to make your story sound more convincing that we're some "evil scheming boogeyman" or something. Get your facts straight because right now you're just chasing phantoms.

[Hemuraile]

Against. Using the arguments of "they are fascists" or "they are allied with fascists" or "they are authoritarian" or "their allies are allied with KAISERREICH which is Nazi and we mention this because we want to appeal to the majority" doesn't cut it for me, as it just makes this another proposal attempting to strangle the freedom of thought by abusing and appealing to hostilities.

Should just bring it down to referring to raiding activity, and I don't know enough to form an opinion on that.

[La Navasse]

Against. Using the arguments of "they are fascists" or "they are allied with fascists" or "they are authoritarian" or "their allies are allied with KAISERREICH which is Nazi and we mention this because we want to appeal to the majority" doesn't cut it for me, as it just makes this another proposal attempting to strangle the freedom of thought by abusing and appealing to hostilities.

Should just bring it down to referring to raiding activity, and I don't know enough to form an opinion on that.

I would disregard criticisms from Morriband et. al., especially considering that they are biased. I suggest you look for your own opinions.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Against. Using the arguments of "they are fascists" or "they are allied with fascists" or "they are authoritarian" or "their allies are allied with KAISERREICH which is Nazi and we mention this because we want to appeal to the majority" doesn't cut it for me, as it just makes this another proposal attempting to strangle the freedom of thought by abusing and appealing to hostilities.

Should just bring it down to referring to raiding activity, and I don't know enough to form an opinion on that.

I would disregard criticisms from Morriband et. al., especially considering that they are biased. I suggest you look for your own opinions.

I suspect that your own views may not be entirely neutral.

[Prydania]

I see nothing to indicate that SCUT is fascist.

Opposed.

[Alcohol-Related Misconduct]

Hey look Prydania, it's a non-Nazi region up for libreation based on the precedent of liberate KR. What d'ya reckon about that?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Almost like what we were warning about all along

[Prydania]

Hey look Prydania, it's a non-Nazi region up for libreation based on the precedent of liberate KR. What d'ya reckon about that?

Almost like what we were warning about all along

I see nothing to worry about, as it seems to be encountering stiff resistance in the thread. And is unlikely to reach quorum.
Nothing will stop people from making terrible SC proposals. That's always going to happen. The fact remains that there doesn't seem to be any appetite for passing this resolution.

[New Legland]

Against. Using the arguments of "they are fascists" or "they are allied with fascists" or "they are authoritarian" or "their allies are allied with KAISERREICH which is Nazi and we mention this because we want to appeal to the majority" doesn't cut it for me, as it just makes this another proposal attempting to strangle the freedom of thought by abusing and appealing to hostilities.

Should just bring it down to referring to raiding activity, and I don't know enough to form an opinion on that.

I would disregard criticisms from Morriband et. al., especially considering that they are biased. I suggest you look for your own opinions.

Yeah, I'd see criticisms from someone who isn't even in SCUT to be valid. Also:



Seems like you didn't have any sources from SCUT, or, if you did, it appears you completely disregarded what they said but still kept them as a source.

[The Australian Federal Republic]

Very clear and purposeful miss-labeling of SCUT as fascists, by a grudge holder attempting to take advantage of the recent anti-fascist weaponized liberation. A quick browse of their region and it's dispatches makes will prove this. (In fact they criticize some of their opponents by calling them fascists). Unlikely to reach quorum, and if by some kind of reverse-miracle it did, Against.

[Sarakart]

Opposed. I'm not seeing enough evidence that Arcem/SCUT are actually fascist and the discussion makes clear some serious interpersonal grudges I don't want to wade into as an SC delegate.

[Viscondy]

Against. Using the arguments of "they are fascists" or "they are allied with fascists" or "they are authoritarian" or "their allies are allied with KAISERREICH which is Nazi and we mention this because we want to appeal to the majority" doesn't cut it for me, as it just makes this another proposal attempting to strangle the freedom of thought by abusing and appealing to hostilities.
Should just bring it down to referring to raiding activity, and I don't know enough to form an opinion on that.

I would disregard criticisms from Morriband et. al., especially considering that they are biased. I suggest you look for your own opinions.

This has been done by many people and unsurprisingly they are largely against.
This 'I will not trust what you say about your own beliefs and political system due to an accusation of extremism' logic really maddens me and makes me wonder how anyone could be convinced.
How would one coordinate a fascist organisation without admitting that they were fascist? It make absolutely no sense.

[La Navasse]

For all purposes, Arcem (SCUT) is essentially a fascist sympathizer, in the same position as Femdom Empire.

[Prydania]

For all purposes, Arcem (SCUT) is essentially a fascist sympathizer, in the same position as Femdom Empire.

I see nothing to suggest that's the case.

[Hemuraile]

For all purposes, Arcem (SCUT) is essentially a fascist sympathizer, in the same position as Femdom Empire.

Looks like Navasse is tryin’ to find the slightest reason to still call Arcem/SCUT and Femdom essentially a group of fascist ____ for all purposes.

[The Australian Federal Republic]

For all purposes, Arcem (SCUT) is essentially a fascist sympathizer, in the same position as Femdom Empire.

Provide some clear and concise evidence for this, because presently what has been provided convinces few.

[La Navasse]

This draft has been submitted, and some final edits have been made.

[Fauxia]

Against

[Lenlyvit]

Yeah, no support on this one from me either. At this point I think you're just badge hunting La Nav.

[Fauxia]

Yeah, no support on this one from me either. At this point I think you're just badge hunting La Nav.

I’m against, but I hate this attack. I don’t care what the motoves are behind writing a proposal.

[La Navasse]

Yeah, no support on this one from me either. At this point I think you're just badge hunting La Nav.

I’m against, but I hate this attack. I don’t care what the motoves are behind writing a proposal.

This is no attack. This is the equivalent of Liberating Femdom Empire - the only difference is that Femdom Empire collaborates with actual Nazis, while Arcem (SCUT) collaborates with fascists. We should oppose both, and anything in between.

[Fauxia]

I’m against, but I hate this attack. I don’t care what the motoves are behind writing a proposal.

This is no attack. This is the equivalent of Liberating Femdom Empire - the only difference is that Femdom Empire collaborates with actual Nazis, while Arcem (SCUT) collaborates with fascists. We should oppose both, and anything in between.

I was talking to Lenly, not you, Vuon

[La Navasse]

This is no attack. This is the equivalent of Liberating Femdom Empire - the only difference is that Femdom Empire collaborates with actual Nazis, while Arcem (SCUT) collaborates with fascists. We should oppose both, and anything in between.

I was talking to Lenly, not you, Vuon

I might as well address your point...