[SUBMITTED] Repeal "Liberate KAISERREICH"

[Act Tas Lam]

Repeal "Liberate KAISERREICH"
Category: Repeal | Target: SC#XXX | Proposed by: PatrickStar

---

The Security Council,

Recognizing the fact that traditionally, the use of the ability to Liberate a region has been reserved for founderless regions that have been invaded,

Disturbed by the precedent set by SC#XXX,

Understanding that by passing SC#XXX, the Security Council could be seen as advocating invasions,

Reaffirming its stance that the sovereignty of regions should be respected,

Noting that Liberating KAISERREICH had no real effect on the region, as the Delegate is non-executive and the region had no barrier to entry before the passage of SC#XXX,

Hereby repeals SC#XXX "Liberate KAISERREICH".

Appreciate any criticism with suggestions to improve.

For it to Protect Free Speech

[Lord Dominator]

Repeal "Liberate KAISERREICH"
Category: Repeal | Target: SC#XXX | Proposed by: PatrickStar

---

The Security Council,

Recognizing the fact that traditionally, the use of the ability to Liberate a region has been reserved for founderless regions that have been invaded,

Disturbed by the precedent set by SC#XXX,

Understanding that by passing SC#XXX, the Security Council could be seen as advocating invasions,

Reaffirming its stance that the sovereignty of regions should be respected,

Noting that Liberating KAISERREICH had no real effect on the region, as the Delegate is non-executive and the region had no barrier to entry before the passage of SC#XXX,

Hereby repeals SC#XXX "Liberate KAISERREICH".

Appreciate any criticism with suggestions to improve.

For it to Protect Free Speech

Ah yes, the non-non-existent great while whale of 'Free Speech'

[Novskya]

I believe that the forum will turn into a debate over wether KAISERREICH (I'll be shortening it KR from here on out) is Nazi, as the primary reason for the Liberation is that it assumes that KR is Nazi and thus makes a moralistic argument for the Liberation in order to combat Nazism within NS. I'd wish to provide an overview as to how to categorize a region. In other words, I think it would be reasonable to define what makes a region be some ideology or belong to a group. For this, I'd like to create two categories: Community Grouping and Government Grouping.
A region is ultimately determined by the community who reside in it. They ultimately determine how the region is governed, the regions view in the international community, and more. If a community shares a dominant view, then it would be categorized on that view. If a region's majority view is Nazi, then it would be categorized as "Nazi". As to what makes a community comes from many factors such as name, aesthetics, the community already present, the government, and possibly more that I couldn't think of as of typing this.
This Community Grouping is different from Government Grouping as the Government is grouped independent of the community. We could also say that a government acts like another government, like how regions can be Democracy in name yet act like am Oligarchy, with the same people being elected again and again.
The debate presented as to wether KR is Nazi or not is a matter of Community Grouping, since it is clear that KR is a Monarchist Region in governance. Even then, a debate should also include as to wether it is moral to act against a community, regardless if a region is Nazi or not.

[PatrickStar]

I believe that the forum will turn into a debate over wether KAISERREICH (I'll be shortening it KR from here on out) is Nazi, as the primary reason for the Liberation is that it assumes that KR is Nazi and thus makes a moralistic argument for the Liberation in order to combat Nazism within NS. I'd wish to provide an overview as to how to categorize a region. In other words, I think it would be reasonable to define what makes a region be some ideology or belong to a group. For this, I'd like to create two categories: Community Grouping and Government Grouping.
A region is ultimately determined by the community who reside in it. They ultimately determine how the region is governed, the regions view in the international community, and more. If a community shares a dominant view, then it would be categorized on that view. If a region's majority view is Nazi, then it would be categorized as "Nazi". As to what makes a community comes from many factors such as name, aesthetics, the community already present, the government, and possibly more that I couldn't think of as of typing this.
This Community Grouping is different from Government Grouping as the Government is grouped independent of the community. We could also say that a government acts like another government, like how regions can be Democracy in name yet act like am Oligarchy, with the same people being elected again and again.
The debate presented as to wether KR is Nazi or not is a matter of Community Grouping, since it is clear that KR is a Monarchist Region in governance. Even then, a debate should also include as to wether it is moral to act against a community, regardless if a region is Nazi or not.

My issue isn't whether or not they are Nazis (I don't know if they are, nor do I care), but whether or not it is wise or desirable to create the precedent that the community can strip a region of part of its sovereignty.

[Prydania]

Against. The resolution is perfectly fine and you have given no reasons why KAISSEREICH shouldn't be liberated other than the fact it doesn't do much.

My primary reason is that it creates a precedent for forcibly opening regions to raiders just because the community doesn't like them.

What’s wrong with the precedent “Nazism is bad”?

[Divitalia]

My primary reason is that it creates a precedent for forcibly opening regions to raiders just because the community doesn't like them.

What’s wrong with the precedent “Nazism is bad”?

That’s not the precedent, the precedent is “Any Nazi, Fascist, or Communist region can be raised with no real repercussions.”

[Lord Dominator]

What’s wrong with the precedent “Nazism is bad”?

That’s not the precedent, the precedent is “Any Nazi, Fascist, or Communist region can be raised with no real repercussions.”

The first two have always been true, the only reason the third isn't is because those who would raid communists have a remarkable lack of R/D or politicking ability.

[Divitalia]

What’s wrong with the precedent “Nazism is bad”?

That’s not the precedent, the precedent is “Any Nazi, Fascist, or Communist region can be raised with no real repercussions.”

Raided, not raised, sorry. I guess razed would work well there as well.

[Lord Dominator]

That’s not the precedent, the precedent is “Any Nazi, Fascist, or Communist region can be raised with no real repercussions.”

Raided, not raised, sorry. I guess razed would work well there as well.

1) Edit button is a thing
2) I think we got what you meant the first time

[PatrickStar]

My primary reason is that it creates a precedent for forcibly opening regions to raiders just because the community doesn't like them.

What’s wrong with the precedent “Nazism is bad”?

That's not the precedent. The precedent being created here is that Liberations can be used to punish regions that express opinions some people in the community disagree with.

[The Atlae Isles]

What’s wrong with the precedent “Nazism is bad”?

That's not the precedent. The precedent being created here is that Liberations can be used to punish regions that express opinions some people in the community disagree with.

The precedent already existed with “Liberate ‘Nazi Europe’.”

[Lord Dominator]

What’s wrong with the precedent “Nazism is bad”?

That's not the precedent. The precedent being created here is that Liberations can be used to punish regions that express opinions some people in the community disagree with.

Incidentally, I respect that you're using what is probably the best argument against the Liberation, even if I do disagree with you

[Lenlyvit]

The Nationalistic Fascist Empire of Quentiam Vallis
58 minutes ago
How do you suppose the liberation of The Kaiserriech will take action? You can change the leader, but not the native regions that reside within. Many inside are fascist and nazi related, hell I am a fascist nation and I am confused as to how this plan is to take action. And even then it isn’t really liberation, many who originally resided within were fascist and nazi related in the first place. It is more like just throwing out natives in place for a more communistic regime, kind of like what Soviet Russia did to poland. Who is the true invader in this place? What sets your plan apart from what other invader regions are to do to it? I am not a nazi, and I oppose certain parts of nazi ideology, but even I must admit that throwing out native inhabitants and officers because of their political leaning is no diffrent from what Nazi germany did to poland. I say let the ideology remain, no matter how cruel or bad it is. For removing their ideology makes you no different from those you oppose so greatly. Let it be thrown into the wild founderless, so that it may make its own decisions, who are you to decide what man can or cannot do? The cycle must go on, great regions will fall regardless of ideology, it is just up to the delegates and nations of that region how fast or slow that is to come

Emphasis mine. Just got this. Someone who knows KREICH and its people.

[PatrickStar]

The Nationalistic Fascist Empire of Quentiam Vallis
58 minutes ago
How do you suppose the liberation of The Kaiserriech will take action? You can change the leader, but not the native regions that reside within. Many inside are fascist and nazi related, hell I am a fascist nation and I am confused as to how this plan is to take action. And even then it isn’t really liberation, many who originally resided within were fascist and nazi related in the first place. It is more like just throwing out natives in place for a more communistic regime, kind of like what Soviet Russia did to poland. Who is the true invader in this place? What sets your plan apart from what other invader regions are to do to it? I am not a nazi, and I oppose certain parts of nazi ideology, but even I must admit that throwing out native inhabitants and officers because of their political leaning is no diffrent from what Nazi germany did to poland. I say let the ideology remain, no matter how cruel or bad it is. For removing their ideology makes you no different from those you oppose so greatly. Let it be thrown into the wild founderless, so that it may make its own decisions, who are you to decide what man can or cannot do? The cycle must go on, great regions will fall regardless of ideology, it is just up to the delegates and nations of that region how fast or slow that is to come

Emphasis mine. Just got this. Someone who knows KREICH and its people.

Again, my issue isn't with whether or not they're Nazis, fascists, or whatever you want to label them. My issue is with the precedent this sets. A precedent like this assumes that you will always be in the majority, that you will always hold power - but thinking like that is the quickest way to have your rule crushed.

[Lord Dominator]

The Nationalistic Fascist Empire of Quentiam Vallis
58 minutes ago
How do you suppose the liberation of The Kaiserriech will take action? You can change the leader, but not the native regions that reside within. Many inside are fascist and nazi related, hell I am a fascist nation and I am confused as to how this plan is to take action. And even then it isn’t really liberation, many who originally resided within were fascist and nazi related in the first place. It is more like just throwing out natives in place for a more communistic regime, kind of like what Soviet Russia did to poland. Who is the true invader in this place? What sets your plan apart from what other invader regions are to do to it? I am not a nazi, and I oppose certain parts of nazi ideology, but even I must admit that throwing out native inhabitants and officers because of their political leaning is no diffrent from what Nazi germany did to poland. I say let the ideology remain, no matter how cruel or bad it is. For removing their ideology makes you no different from those you oppose so greatly. Let it be thrown into the wild founderless, so that it may make its own decisions, who are you to decide what man can or cannot do? The cycle must go on, great regions will fall regardless of ideology, it is just up to the delegates and nations of that region how fast or slow that is to come

Emphasis mine. Just got this. Someone who knows KREICH and its people.

Again, my issue isn't with whether or not they're Nazis, fascists, or whatever you want to label them. My issue is with the precedent this sets. A precedent like this assumes that you will always be in the majority, that you will always hold power - but thinking like that is the quickest way to have your rule crushed.

I highly doubt anti-fascism is going to go out of vogue.
Plus, I feel that many are okay if such a majority flip happens if it means they can deal damage to them now

[Prydania]

What’s wrong with the precedent “Nazism is bad”?

That's not the precedent. The precedent being created here is that Liberations can be used to punish regions that express opinions some people in the community disagree with.

More people should disagree with Nazism and fascism. So....not seeing a problem here. You're willing to die on a hill for people who view me, and many others in this community, as sub-human.

[Novskya]

Fellas,
The purpose of precedent is to establish a guideline for similar cases. What the "Liberate KAISERREICH" resolution sets the precedent for is that Nazi Regions can be Liberated. ("Further Believing that liberating Kaiserreich will serve as a warning to other Nazi and Fascist regions"). The reasoning behind as to why is debatable but not the point here.
The quote ("Further Believing that liberating Kaiserreich will serve as a warning to other Nazi and Fascist regions") sets a clear precedent that is against Fascist/Nazi Regions. If another region that is called Fascist/Nazi is to be Liberated in the same manner as the KR case ("Acknowledging that liberating Kaiserreich... will leave the region open to invasion after its founder leaves..."), then it can be assumed that it will likely do the same. Ultimately, since the SC is made of the community, then it can change. If the SC were to be somehow sympathetic to fascist regions (I doubt NS would become pro-fascist anytime soon) , then precedent would be ignored if such a case as this (Liberate KAISERREICH) and a new precedent would be established.

[Republic of Stephen]

Support

[Hessere]

When people actually care about "tradition" on an internet game

"What hath this world come to"

[The United Artherian Federation]

NEIN NEIN NEIN
KR deserves the Liberation.

[Dobrobyt]

I would support and be willing to help improve this draft as well.

[Willania Imperium]

Completely against. The Liberation proposal is fine as it is and shouldn't be repealed.

[Industrial West Virginia]

The Security Council,

Recognizing the fact that traditionally, the use of the ability to Liberate a region has been reserved for founderless regions that have been invaded,

Acceptable. A good point!

Disturbed by the precedent set by SC#XXX,

Blog it.

Understanding that by passing SC#XXX, the Security Council could be seen as advocating raiding,

In what way? Liberating a region has always been for an obvious reason and exists for an obvious reason. It's more powerful than a condemnation, and it's generally a safer bet to actually affect something. Especially whenever dealing with raider regions.

Reaffirming its stance that the sovereignty of regions should be respected,

The SC has liberations for a reason v2. You have no grounds to go against the security council in terms of not liking liberations. They do stuff, and they do good stuff. AKA: Blog it.

Noting that Liberating KAISERREICH had no real effect on the region, as the Delegate is non-executive and the region had no barrier to entry before the passage of SC#XXX,

YET there is an option in the admin tab that allows the founder to give the delegate executive powers. Liberating would stop this (password protection and ultimately the complete inability LIBERATE this region) from ever happening.

Hereby repeals SC#XXX "Liberate KAISERREICH".

You need some work in terms of contradiction and accuracy. Completely unsupportable by IWV in its current state.

[Lord Dominator]

Slight correction IWV, a liberation only prevents the delegate & ROs from wielding powers related to passwords, not the rest of the abilities they may possess.

[Chricoma]

Support, seeing as this is most probably going to pave the way for further censorship, it will be ugly when any region can be liberated for having a radical political view. Personally, i don't care if KAISERREICH is a fascist region or not. But there are surely some fascist members and liberating a region for a disagreement to their politics should be repealed and/or voted against. We're no better than fascists if we censor them.