[DRAFT] Liberate The Internationale

[Sarakart]

You say that like it's a particular condemnation. MT Army is antifa and it got commended.

I know. And it was undeserved.
proof:https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=957276

A manifesto is just that: it is a political statement, inherently polemical. It doesn't "prove" anything.

[West Leas Oros]

I know. And it was undeserved.
proof:https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=957276

A manifesto is just that: it is a political statement, inherently polemical. It doesn't "prove" anything.

I'm pretty sure Libertatem, REATO, or The Resistance against Antifa see it as undeserved. They are merciless raiders and fanatics. What proof do you need?

[Sarakart]

A manifesto is just that: it is a political statement, inherently polemical. It doesn't "prove" anything.

I'm pretty sure Libertatem, REATO, or The Resistance against Antifa see it as undeserved. They are merciless raiders and fanatics. What proof do you need?

So political partisans, then?

I'm singularly unimpressed. I don't really care much for this line of argument and mostly just want to see us ride the slope down to the bottom. If you have problems with Liberate KR go voice it in the Liberate KR thread and see where that gets you- otherwise we can deal with other liberations as they come.

[West Leas Oros]

I'm pretty sure Libertatem, REATO, or The Resistance against Antifa see it as undeserved. They are merciless raiders and fanatics. What proof do you need?

So political partisans, then?

I'm singularly unimpressed. I don't really care much for this line of argument and mostly just want to see us ride the slope down to the bottom. If you have problems with Liberate KR go voice it in the Liberate KR thread and see where that gets you- otherwise we can deal with other liberations as they come.

I don't have problems with Liberate KR, because I think it should be given to a democratic coalitian of nations, so we can try to defeat totalitarian raiding. (I will admit my bias towards liberations in general). I just fear that liberate KR will cause the MT Army and their NKVD allies to gain more power.

[Sarakart]

So political partisans, then?

I'm singularly unimpressed. I don't really care much for this line of argument and mostly just want to see us ride the slope down to the bottom. If you have problems with Liberate KR go voice it in the Liberate KR thread and see where that gets you- otherwise we can deal with other liberations as they come.

I don't have problems with Liberate KR, because I think it should be given to a democratic coalitian of nations, so we can try to defeat totalitarian raiding. (I will admit my bias towards liberations in general). I just fear that liberate KR will cause the MT Army and their NKVD allies to gain more power.

Why would they "gain power" from it? Their operational ability is entirely independent of the regions they raid, gaining territory if anything ties their down resources until they've completed the op.

[Wrapper]

Noting the existing Security Council precedent set by SC #XXX, which justifies the use of liberations as a means to frustrate the propagators of hateful ideologies

Careful now. There's a rule against tit-for-tat proposals. Though, you're probably on the right side of that rule as it is. Probably.

[Living in Sin]

I like how you describe yourself as a left-winger, yet you refer to it as a tool to destroy the right...using terms that accurately describe your own region.

why do you care? are you an antifa sympathizer?

Shit, I've been called out as sympathetic towards anti-fascism. However will I cope with the label of 'does not like nazis'?!

KR is a very special case though. So I remain sceptical.

That's where it always starts. Remember when CAIN labelled Right to Life a Nazi collaborator?

I like how you describe yourself as a left-winger, yet you refer to it as a tool to destroy the right...using terms that accurately describe your own region.

I fail to understand your point.

You're describing the 'right wing' with descriptors of your own region, yet describing yourself as a 'left-winger' in an attempt to add some legitimacy to your argument - "Look guys, I'm left wing too but this isn't right!" - unfortunately, that's a rather paper-thin veil there, and you're not going to get very far with it.

[West Leas Oros]

I don't have problems with Liberate KR, because I think it should be given to a democratic coalitian of nations, so we can try to defeat totalitarian raiding. (I will admit my bias towards liberations in general). I just fear that liberate KR will cause the MT Army and their NKVD allies to gain more power.

Why would they "gain power" from it? Their operational ability is entirely independent of the regions they raid, gaining territory if anything ties their down resources until they've completed the op.

It would be a symbolic victory, allowing them to gain support from KR's enemies, and will likely turn the region into a trophy to strike fear in their enemies, while emboldening their allies, not to mention it would show that they have power in the WA.

[Kavagrad]

So political partisans, then?

I'm singularly unimpressed. I don't really care much for this line of argument and mostly just want to see us ride the slope down to the bottom. If you have problems with Liberate KR go voice it in the Liberate KR thread and see where that gets you- otherwise we can deal with other liberations as they come.

I don't have problems with Liberate KR, because I think it should be given to a democratic coalitian of nations, so we can try to defeat totalitarian raiding. (I will admit my bias towards liberations in general). I just fear that liberate KR will cause the MT Army and their NKVD allies to gain more power.

Interesting that you're saying the exact opposite on the Liberate KR thread. Do you think we're stupid? Simply put, you're lying in a transparent attempt to add legitimacy to your partisan standpoint.

[West Leas Oros]

I don't have problems with Liberate KR, because I think it should be given to a democratic coalitian of nations, so we can try to defeat totalitarian raiding. (I will admit my bias towards liberations in general). I just fear that liberate KR will cause the MT Army and their NKVD allies to gain more power.

Interesting that you're saying the exact opposite on the Liberate KR thread. Do you think we're stupid? Simply put, you're lying in a transparent attempt to add legitimacy to your partisan standpoint.

The reason I have these views, is because, in its current form, Liberate KR is an affront to democracy. I do support it, if it results in more democratic governments to pop up, but in its current form, it emboldens radical far left militants to continue their crusade.

[West Leas Oros]

Noting the existing Security Council precedent set by SC #XXX, which justifies the use of liberations as a means to frustrate the propagators of hateful ideologies

Careful now. There's a rule against tit-for-tat proposals. Though, you're probably on the right side of that rule as it is. Probably.

Are you kidding? The Antifascists would have your head if you claimed this proposal was on the right side of that rule.

[Kavagrad]

Interesting that you're saying the exact opposite on the Liberate KR thread. Do you think we're stupid? Simply put, you're lying in a transparent attempt to add legitimacy to your partisan standpoint.

The reason I have these views, is because, in its current form, Liberate KR is an affront to democracy. I do support it, if it results in more democratic governments to pop up, but in its current form, it emboldens radical far left militants to continue their crusade.

See, now you've gone ahead and given two contrary statements in the same thread. You can't just state "Liberate KR is an affront to democracy" having previously said that you "don't have problem with Liberate KR". Your statements are laughably inconsistent, and your attempt to brush this fact off has only made it more obvious.

[West Leas Oros]

The reason I have these views, is because, in its current form, Liberate KR is an affront to democracy. I do support it, if it results in more democratic governments to pop up, but in its current form, it emboldens radical far left militants to continue their crusade.

See, now you've gone ahead and given two contrary statements in the same thread. You can't just state "Liberate KR is an affront to democracy" having previously said that you "don't have problem with Liberate KR". Your statements are laughably inconsistent, and your attempt to brush this fact off has only made it more obvious.

I'm starting to think I may have worded my statements poorly from the beginning.

[Kurnugia]

See, now you've gone ahead and given two contrary statements in the same thread. You can't just state "Liberate KR is an affront to democracy" having previously said that you "don't have problem with Liberate KR". Your statements are laughably inconsistent, and your attempt to brush this fact off has only made it more obvious.

I'm starting to think I may have worded my statements poorly from the beginning.

Poorly is an understatement.

[West Leas Oros]

I'm starting to think I may have worded my statements poorly from the beginning.

Poorly is an understatement.

I realized that. Much too late I might add. I believe the Liberate KR could show promise in the future, but at this time... the current version goes against my principles.

[Asturies-Llion]

(Image)

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Liberate The Internationale
Category: Liberation | Target: The Internationale | Proposed by: United Massachusetts

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Noting the existing Security Council precedent set by SC #XXX, which justifies the use of liberations as a means to frustrate the propagators of hateful ideologies,

Firmly asserting that the brand of revolutionary communism espoused by the Internationale (and its military partners in The Red Fleet) is fundamentally hateful towards those who, among other things, hold religious faith or dissent against violent revolution as a means to attain social change,

Saddened by the manifestation of such hatred in the form of the violent actions of the Red Fleet, whose forces have involved themselves in the destruction of several capitalist regions and the raiding of those regions who merely desire peaceful coexistence,

Unsurprised that the present regime, whilst claiming to be democratic, has forcibly exiled countless individuals merely for raising opposition to communist rule, considering that the supression of free speech is a vital component of the communist ideology to which The Internationale's leadership subscribes,

Annoyed that the Internationale retains a positive global image by masquerading as the leading force of anti-fascism across these nation-states, despite espousing an ideology that is not far removed from fascism in nature,

Believing that through its trampling over the rights of regions, the Internationale, and, by extension, the rest of the militant left, has surrendered its right to protection from the Security Council,

Yearning, therefore, to punish The Internationale for its crimes against others, its crimes against its own citizens, and its hateful ideology,

The Security Council, by the advice and consent of the Delegates and member nations thereof, does hereby liberate the Internationale.

I only intend to propose this if "Liberate KAISERREICH" passes.

Good luck trying to liberate us from ourselves!

[West Leas Oros]

(Image)

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Liberate The Internationale
Category: Liberation | Target: The Internationale | Proposed by: United Massachusetts

---

Noting the existing Security Council precedent set by SC #XXX, which justifies the use of liberations as a means to frustrate the propagators of hateful ideologies,

Firmly asserting that the brand of revolutionary communism espoused by the Internationale (and its military partners in The Red Fleet) is fundamentally hateful towards those who, among other things, hold religious faith or dissent against violent revolution as a means to attain social change,

Saddened by the manifestation of such hatred in the form of the violent actions of the Red Fleet, whose forces have involved themselves in the destruction of several capitalist regions and the raiding of those regions who merely desire peaceful coexistence,

Unsurprised that the present regime, whilst claiming to be democratic, has forcibly exiled countless individuals merely for raising opposition to communist rule, considering that the supression of free speech is a vital component of the communist ideology to which The Internationale's leadership subscribes,

Annoyed that the Internationale retains a positive global image by masquerading as the leading force of anti-fascism across these nation-states, despite espousing an ideology that is not far removed from fascism in nature,

Believing that through its trampling over the rights of regions, the Internationale, and, by extension, the rest of the militant left, has surrendered its right to protection from the Security Council,

Yearning, therefore, to punish The Internationale for its crimes against others, its crimes against its own citizens, and its hateful ideology,

The Security Council, by the advice and consent of the Delegates and member nations thereof, does hereby liberate the Internationale.

I only intend to propose this if "Liberate KAISERREICH" passes.

Good luck trying to liberate us from ourselves!

You people are despicable.

[Asturies-Llion]

Good luck trying to liberate us from ourselves!

You people are despicable.

We do our best, thank you

[United Massachusetts]

Noting the existing Security Council precedent set by SC #XXX, which justifies the use of liberations as a means to frustrate the propagators of hateful ideologies

Careful now. There's a rule against tit-for-tat proposals. Though, you're probably on the right side of that rule as it is. Probably.

"Proposals which are solely 'tit-for-tat' proposals (ie Condemns Nation X for Condemning Nation Y) will be deleted. However, if they have other substance to them besides the 'tit-for-tat' argument, they are unlikely to be deleted:"

Emphasis mine. My proposal is far from solely 'tit-for-tat', especially given that I've been trying to go after TRF for a while now.

[West Leas Oros]

I've been trying to go after TRF for a while now.

I'm glad to see another person who is willing to stand up to these thugs.

[Wrapper]

Careful now. There's a rule against tit-for-tat proposals. Though, you're probably on the right side of that rule as it is. Probably.

"Proposals which are solely 'tit-for-tat' proposals (ie Condemns Nation X for Condemning Nation Y) will be deleted. However, if they have other substance to them besides the 'tit-for-tat' argument, they are unlikely to be deleted:"

Emphasis mine. My proposal is far from solely 'tit-for-tat', especially given that I've been trying to go after TRF for a while now.

Thus the "probably". I've been far too involved in these threads to make an official ruling, so all I can say is, you're probably right.


Probably.

[Kurnugia]

You people are despicable.

We do our best, thank you

You know you do something right, when you have your first fanboy

[Lord Dominator]

Interesting that you're saying the exact opposite on the Liberate KR thread. Do you think we're stupid? Simply put, you're lying in a transparent attempt to add legitimacy to your partisan standpoint.

The reason I have these views, is because, in its current form, Liberate KR is an affront to democracy. I do support it, if it results in more democratic governments to pop up, but in its current form, it emboldens radical far left militants to continue their crusade.

Democracy is in no way inherent to NS. The only democracy is that which Founders, or in regions without, Delegates, choose to give. Any given SC proposal is unlikely to create more 'democracy.'

[West Leas Oros]

The reason I have these views, is because, in its current form, Liberate KR is an affront to democracy. I do support it, if it results in more democratic governments to pop up, but in its current form, it emboldens radical far left militants to continue their crusade.

Democracy is in no way inherent to NS. The only democracy is that which Founders, or in regions without, Delegates, choose to give. Any given SC proposal is unlikely to create more 'democracy.'

But it could create less democracy.

[The Atlae Isles]

Democracy is in no way inherent to NS. The only democracy is that which Founders, or in regions without, Delegates, choose to give. Any given SC proposal is unlikely to create more 'democracy.'

But it could create less democracy.

The game mechanics don’t necessarily support democracy. There is no problem with having less democracy in the game.