NATION

PASSWORD

[DRAFT] Liberate The Internationale

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Audioslavia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 2839
Founded: Antiquity
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Audioslavia » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:54 pm

West Leas Oros wrote:You people are despicable.


This is an unofficial warning for flaming. Please remember that it's okay to attack the post, but not the users involved.

User avatar
Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6107
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:08 pm

To tl;dr what I previously West Leas, democracy on NS is a farce. It servers no inherent value and in no way does it create more stability.
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Major and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

User avatar
Ratateague
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1568
Founded: Dec 25, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ratateague » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:14 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:Frankly, I'm opposed to Liberate KAISERREICH. This is primarily designed to make a point--this whole liberate to destroy thing is a slippery slope.

Am I to understand this is a protest proposal, or are you fully committed to passing this should the other one reach quorum or pass?
Society prepares the crime, the criminal commits it. -Henry Thomas Buckle
When money speaks, the truth is silent. -Russian Proverb
'|

User avatar
Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18660
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:34 pm

I'm against this proposal, because I believe that liberate to destroy proposals are a twisting of game mechanics for an improper purpose.
I'm also consistent.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:53 pm

Ratateague wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:Frankly, I'm opposed to Liberate KAISERREICH. This is primarily designed to make a point--this whole liberate to destroy thing is a slippery slope.

Am I to understand this is a protest proposal, or are you fully committed to passing this should the other one reach quorum or pass?

both

User avatar
Norwegian Wood
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Feb 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Norwegian Wood » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:12 pm

Full support. The players The Internationale has bred and the subculture present there is alarming to my sense of justice and of what is right in a community. The shortcomings of communists should not be overlooked simply because they fight against fascists.

User avatar
West Leas Oros
Minister
 
Posts: 2597
Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:15 pm

Norwegian Wood wrote:Full support. The players The Internationale has bred and the subculture present there is alarming to my sense of justice and of what is right in a community. The shortcomings of communists should not be overlooked simply because they fight against fascists.

This quote is the best! Can I use it?
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
PMT nation. Economically to the left of Karl Marx. Social justice is a bourgeois plot.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

User avatar
Norwegian Wood
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Feb 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Norwegian Wood » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:17 pm

West Leas Oros wrote:
Norwegian Wood wrote:Full support. The players The Internationale has bred and the subculture present there is alarming to my sense of justice and of what is right in a community. The shortcomings of communists should not be overlooked simply because they fight against fascists.

This quote is the best! Can I use it?

Feel free. I enjoy being quoted.

User avatar
The Stalker
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1198
Founded: Jan 04, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Stalker » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:19 pm

lol this is pretty funny, but would never pass.

Opposed.
The Mad King of Hell
I am the "who" when you call, "Who's there?"
Hell's Bells: Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.
This isn't Wall Street, this is Hell. We have a little something called integrity.
And I heard as it were the noise of thunder, One of the four beasts saying come and see and I saw, and behold...

User avatar
Dobrobyt
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 174
Founded: Jul 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Dobrobyt » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:34 pm

As I stated with the KAISERREICH proposal, please cite your claims, then I may support.
VIEWS:
Pro- guns, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, police, military, non-traditional forms of energy, capitalism, jobs, business, healthy food options for citizens
Anti- welfare, abortions(in most cases), forced secularism, socialism, communism, unhealthy food and chemicals, mass-immigration, radical Islam

User avatar
Impaled Nazarene
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9507
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Father Knows Best State

Postby Impaled Nazarene » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:56 am

Unsurprised that the present regime, whilst claiming to be democratic, has forcibly exiled countless individuals merely for raising opposition to communist rule, considering that the supression of free speech is a vital component of the communist ideology to which The Internationale's leadership subscribes,

Oh nooo a leftist discussion region kicking out people who aren't leftists or espouse bigotry that is against the regional rules. What a crime. Even McCarthy would call this proposal a stretch.

Also remind me on what page of the Communist Manifesto or Conquest of Bread does it say kill all the jewish, disabled, and people of color?
Last edited by Impaled Nazarene on Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Asperger's Syndrome Anarchist
Kiaculta wrote:Oh, Kar, you silly sack of shit.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
Finland SSR wrote:"Many dictatorships are oligarchies.
Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."

-said no one ever. I made these words up.
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."

User avatar
Burninati0n
Envoy
 
Posts: 278
Founded: Oct 15, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Burninati0n » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:15 am

Impaled Nazarene wrote:
Unsurprised that the present regime, whilst claiming to be democratic, has forcibly exiled countless individuals merely for raising opposition to communist rule, considering that the supression of free speech is a vital component of the communist ideology to which The Internationale's leadership subscribes,

Oh nooo a leftist discussion region kicking out people who aren't leftists or espouse bigotry that is against the regional rules. What a crime. Even McCarthy would call this proposal a stretch.

Also remind me on what page of the Communist Manifesto or Conquest of Bread does it say kill all the jewish, disabled, and people of color?

I must say, seeing the (not-apparently-justified) hatred of TI and what we stand for from nations I've never heard of has been pretty fun/funny. I was unaware of our evident fame!

I do appreciate the quoted post, though -- because sometimes reading things that make sense is good, too. And in this, I believe, we have a winner.

TI is explicitly a region for leftists and has a code of conduct that we enforce. We will not apologize for either enforcing a code of conduct or creating a netspace for leftists. I am proud of the community that we have created, bright spots, blemishes, and warts included.

Also, I should point out that really, our class-traitorous friend United Massachusetts ought really to be proposing a "liberate" for every member region of the NSLeft, since the meat of the proposal is aimed at activities of the Fleet, which is the military arm of the entire NSLeft, not TI.

The only other comment I should make is this:
United Massachusetts wrote:Annoyed that the Internationale retains a positive global image by masquerading as the leading force of anti-fascism across these nation-states, despite espousing an ideology that is not far removed from fascism in nature,

I am uncertain if this is an expression of UM's failure to comprehend fascism as an ideology or lack of knowledge about the ideology and community of TI. Fascism and Communism are similar only in that they both represent ideological movements that are alternatives to the liberal democratic status quo of the West. The actual contents of those alternatives, however, could not be more diametrically opposed. I can assure you that TI "espouses" none of the hatred-bred-in-fear of immigrants or minorities that has led fascism as a historical movement to commit attempted genocide, war crimes, and countless other crimes against humanity.
Last edited by Burninati0n on Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 4929
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:29 am

I'm gonna call BS on the idea that this is supposed to be an example of a proposal written out of spite
It's just a proposal written out of spite

Against.
R.I.P. Dyakovo
Sylvia Montresor

Ashmoria
Karpathos
~ You may think I’m small, but I have a universe inside my mind. ~

User avatar
Ratateague
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1568
Founded: Dec 25, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ratateague » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:33 am

Burninati0n wrote:Also, I should point out that really, our class-traitorous friend United Massachusetts ought really to be proposing a "liberate" for every member region of the NSLeft, since the meat of the proposal is aimed at activities of the Fleet, which is the military arm of the entire NSLeft, not TI.

I acknowledge the point you are trying to make about unjustly conflating left-wing regions with voluntary Red Fleet members from those regions, yet I'd just like to clarify the content of the NSLeft Solidarity Pact, so no one gets the wrong idea.

The NSLeft Solidarity Pact, section III wrote:1. All member regions shall maintain peace with one another and shall resolve conflicts with other member regions through diplomacy.

2. Regional militaries and interregional military organizations associated with the NSLeft shall provide for the defense of member regions.

3. The NSLeft shall be a voluntary member of Antifa.

Nowhere does it mention that member nations are mandated to join militaries, or that if they do, that it must be The Red Fleet, Antifa, etc. Only that existing regional or interregional militaries come to the defense of other regions should a situation arise. AFAIK, one doesn't even have to be a nation in NSLeft member regions to join The Red Fleet or Antifa, as long as they are vetted.

Anyway, this is the ongoing confusion that pervades the NS community, despite attempts at distinction. It would be a gross miscarriage of justice to liberate the wrong region because of a case of mistaken identity. Especially a region of over 500 members in which an estimated <5% participate in The Red Fleet.
Society prepares the crime, the criminal commits it. -Henry Thomas Buckle
When money speaks, the truth is silent. -Russian Proverb
'|

User avatar
Wrapper
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 5914
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Wrapper » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:36 am

United Massachusetts wrote:
Ratateague wrote:Am I to understand this is a protest proposal, or are you fully committed to passing this should the other one reach quorum or pass?

both

Ah So it is tit-for-tat. Good to know. :ugeek:

User avatar
Kavagrad
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1155
Founded: Nov 22, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kavagrad » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:05 am

Ratateague wrote:
Burninati0n wrote:Also, I should point out that really, our class-traitorous friend United Massachusetts ought really to be proposing a "liberate" for every member region of the NSLeft, since the meat of the proposal is aimed at activities of the Fleet, which is the military arm of the entire NSLeft, not TI.

I acknowledge the point you are trying to make about unjustly conflating left-wing regions with voluntary Red Fleet members from those regions, yet I'd just like to clarify the content of the NSLeft Solidarity Pact, so no one gets the wrong idea.

The NSLeft Solidarity Pact, section III wrote:1. All member regions shall maintain peace with one another and shall resolve conflicts with other member regions through diplomacy.

2. Regional militaries and interregional military organizations associated with the NSLeft shall provide for the defense of member regions.

3. The NSLeft shall be a voluntary member of Antifa.

Nowhere does it mention that member nations are mandated to join militaries, or that if they do, that it must be The Red Fleet, Antifa, etc. Only that existing regional or interregional militaries come to the defense of other regions should a situation arise. AFAIK, one doesn't even have to be a nation in NSLeft member regions to join The Red Fleet or Antifa, as long as they are vetted.

Anyway, this is the ongoing confusion that pervades the NS community, despite attempts at distinction. It would be a gross miscarriage of justice to liberate the wrong region because of a case of mistaken identity. Especially a region of over 500 members in which an estimated <5% participate in The Red Fleet.


As a member of an NSLeft region with no military of our own and little participation (all of which is carried out on a personal basis) in TRF or any associated military forces, I definitely approve this message.
Claorica wrote:It's leftists like this that really warm me up to Hoppe's idea of physical removal
Sobriety & Anti-Fascism

User avatar
Burninati0n
Envoy
 
Posts: 278
Founded: Oct 15, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Burninati0n » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:53 pm

@Ratateague and @Kavagrad bring up a valid complaint about what I said. (Sadly. I was hoping I could just drop the mic and not have to come back ;) )

Consider my point as Ratateague more eloquently rephrased it -- thank you for that service, Товарищ.

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:39 pm

Burninati0n wrote:The only other comment I should make is this:
United Massachusetts wrote:Annoyed that the Internationale retains a positive global image by masquerading as the leading force of anti-fascism across these nation-states, despite espousing an ideology that is not far removed from fascism in nature,

I am uncertain if this is an expression of UM's failure to comprehend fascism as an ideology or lack of knowledge about the ideology and community of TI. Fascism and Communism are similar only in that they both represent ideological movements that are alternatives to the liberal democratic status quo of the West. The actual contents of those alternatives, however, could not be more diametrically opposed. I can assure you that TI "espouses" none of the hatred-bred-in-fear of immigrants or minorities that has led fascism as a historical movement to commit attempted genocide, war crimes, and countless other crimes against humanity.

Tell me now--how many anti-theists and militant athiests exist in NSLeft or TI?

You see, communism is a fundamentally hateful ideology, particularly towards religious individuals. Consider in the persecution of faith in the Soviet Union, North Korea, Khmer Rouge, and the list goes on. Communism is immensely hateful, even if such hatred is not vented towards the same groups as that of the fascists.
Wrapper wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:both

Ah So it is tit-for-tat. Good to know. :ugeek:

Only partially so. Again, I've been going after TI and TRF for awhile

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:44 pm

As for the choice to liberate TI, it's rather obvious--TI is the clear leader of the militant Left on NS (and home to all three Admirality Board members, I might add). Furthermore, it is founded on a hateful ideology; KAISERREICH merely habors it.

User avatar
Impaled Nazarene
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9507
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Father Knows Best State

Postby Impaled Nazarene » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:56 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
You see, communism is a fundamentally hateful ideology,

Fundamentally...
Evidence against that: Marx, Engels, Lenin, Bakunin, Kropotkin, Makhno we can go on.
Do cite the page number and passage in each one of their works where they call for the mass slaughter of the jewish, people of color, disabled people, and homosexuals.
Asperger's Syndrome Anarchist
Kiaculta wrote:Oh, Kar, you silly sack of shit.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
Finland SSR wrote:"Many dictatorships are oligarchies.
Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."

-said no one ever. I made these words up.
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."

User avatar
Kavagrad
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1155
Founded: Nov 22, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kavagrad » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:57 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:As for the choice to liberate TI, it's rather obvious--TI is the clear leader of the militant Left on NS (and home to all three Admirality Board members, I might add). Furthermore, it is founded on a hateful ideology; KAISERREICH merely habors it.

Who did Marx advocate a genocide of? Please enlighten me, I must have missed that part of his works.
Claorica wrote:It's leftists like this that really warm me up to Hoppe's idea of physical removal
Sobriety & Anti-Fascism

User avatar
Lenlyvit
Diplomat
 
Posts: 859
Founded: Feb 13, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Lenlyvit » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:01 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Wrapper wrote:Ah So it is tit-for-tat. Good to know. :ugeek:

Only partially so. Again, I've been going after TI and TRF for awhile

Even a partial tit-for-tat is still a tit-for-tat, and considered illegal under sight rules......
Citizen of The Rejected Realms and 10000 Islands
Author of SC#242, SC#245, SC#253, and SC#257, Co-author of SC#218
Former TITO Tactical Officer
Former Commander of TGW, UDSAF, and FORGE
Proud founder of The Hole To Hide In
Person behind the Regional Officer resignation button
Person behind the Offsite Chat tag and the Jump Point tag
WA Character limit increase to 5,000 characters

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:01 pm

Kavagrad wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:As for the choice to liberate TI, it's rather obvious--TI is the clear leader of the militant Left on NS (and home to all three Admirality Board members, I might add). Furthermore, it is founded on a hateful ideology; KAISERREICH merely habors it.

Who did Marx advocate a genocide of? Please enlighten me, I must have missed that part of his works.

Somewhere, at least according to Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Kim Il-Sung, Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro, Ho Chi Minh, and just about every other communist leader. You all seem to be intent on defending these lovely human beings, denying their atrocities, and then seeking to recreate them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_kill ... st_regimes

100,000,000 killed under the name of that "fiery red peace" that TRF so boldly advocated for.

OOC: With that said, we should try to not let this become a debate fit for General.
Last edited by United Massachusetts on Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:03 pm

Lenlyvit wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:Only partially so. Again, I've been going after TI and TRF for awhile

Even a partial tit-for-tat is still a tit-for-tat, and considered illegal under sight rules......

Incorrect. In my defense, I refer to the rulebook:

Proposals which are solely 'tit-for-tat' proposals (ie Condemns Nation X for Condemning Nation Y) will be deleted. However, if they have other substance to them besides the 'tit-for-tat' argument, they are unlikely to be deleted:

User avatar
Kavagrad
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1155
Founded: Nov 22, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kavagrad » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:05 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Kavagrad wrote:Who did Marx advocate a genocide of? Please enlighten me, I must have missed that part of his works.

Somewhere, at least according to Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Kim Il-Sung, Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro, Ho Chi Minh, and just about every other communist leader. You all seem to be intent on defending these lovely human beings, denying their atrocities, and then seeking to recreate them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_kill ... st_regimes

100,000,000 killed under the name of that "fiery red peace" that TRF so boldly advocated for.

If you're trying to earn a prize for the largest strawman ever built, congratulations.

Now, if you're willing to debate what I'm actually saying, rather than this fantasy you have of me, please answer my question. You said that communism is fundamentally hateful. Where do Marx, or any of the early communist theorists, espouse hateful, genocidal views?

I'll wait.
Claorica wrote:It's leftists like this that really warm me up to Hoppe's idea of physical removal
Sobriety & Anti-Fascism

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Security Council

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads