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[DRAFTING] Proposal to Repeal "Commend Europeia"

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The Grand Senate
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[DRAFTING] Proposal to Repeal "Commend Europeia"

Postby The Grand Senate » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:33 pm

A proposal I've been thinking about since 10000 islands came out as staunchly against it.

First proposal, and first forum post. Don't be kind c:


Security Council,

RECOGNIZING that all facts stated in the original Proposal are true, with the exception(s) of;
1. Section 1, "Lauding Europeia's role at the forefront of the Independent ideology, notably including both being host to the pioneering Independent Convention and codifying the principles and values of Independentism in a landmark interregional document known as The Independent Manifesto,"
a. Due to Europeia's attempts to disturb national order by raiding smaller regions than themselves,
2. Section 12, "Believing that Europeia overall serves both as an exemplary role model for the world and as a force for positive change throughout it,"
a. Due to the fact that, once more, Europeia's many attempts at raiding smaller regions, along with allying themselves with the Black Hawks, leading to,
REALIZING that the Nation which proposed the Commendation was, and is, a leading general of the Black Hawks, a region condemned twice due to various reasons, (Resolution SC52 (April 04, 2011), Resolution SC217 (March 01, 2017) both of which focused on The Black Hawk's attempts to disturb national order, so should have disqualified any legislation from any member,

REALIZING that the Founder of Europeia, The nation of King Hem, holds facist values to heart, despite attempting to advertise itself as a Centrist Democracy, which is in direct conflict with Section 3 of the original proposal, which states, "Specifically Recognizing Europeia's commitment to anti-fascist military efforts, particularly the forceful presence of the Europeian Republican Navy on numerous operations in regions such as Nazi Europe, Greater German Reich, and Anne Frank, as well as Europeia's creation of the Coalition Against the Ideology of Nazism to unite regions across the world in the combat of fascism."

BUILDING upon that fact, Europeia, though noble in its bulwark anti-Nazism, reduces National Sovereignty to nothing, forcibly removing the decision from the Nation's hands in their raids of "unworthy" regions.

FURTHER REALZING that Section 4 of the original proposal is incredibly vague, not citing a source, or telling the Council percisely what this Revolutionary technology is that it has so noblely shared with other reigons, simply stating that such a technology exists.
1. Section 4 States, "Applauding the region for its impressive efforts to recruit nations to become a part of its territory, often using state-of-the-art technology that Europeia has developed, tested, and shared with other regions;"

RECOGNIZING that Section 5 ignores what nations were being apart of, Raiding parties, and instead focusing on the fact that nations were involved, further condemning the nation,
1.Section 5 states “Complementing the exemplary levels of participation in recruitment efforts from many individual nations in the region, whose efforts are largely responsible for the region perennially being among the largest regions for over a decade, as well as the Europeia's formal recognition of such”

RECOGNIZING that the original proposal was deceitful in its clauses, only citing half the truth, and hereby repealing “Commend Europeia”

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Lata Eden 2
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Postby Lata Eden 2 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:48 pm

Against
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Kylia Quilor
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Postby Kylia Quilor » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:00 pm

Normally I wouldn't give something this awful the time of day, but I'm in a mood™, so wth.

RECOGNIZING that all facts stated in the original Proposal are true, with the exception(s) of;
1. Section 1, "Lauding Europeia's role at the forefront of the Independent ideology, notably including both being host to the pioneering Independent Convention and codifying the principles and values of Independentism in a landmark interregional document known as The Independent Manifesto,"
a. Due to Europeia's attempts to disturb national order by raiding smaller regions than themselves,
It can't be the 'national' order if it's regions that are being raided? Also, this isn't a complete arguement or point here

2. Section 12, "Believing that Europeia overall serves both as an exemplary role model for the world and as a force for positive change throughout it,"
a. Due to the fact that, once more, Europeia's many attempts at raiding smaller regions, along with allying themselves with the Black Hawks, leading to,
REALIZING that the Nation which proposed the Commendation was, and is, a leading general of the Black Hawks, a region condemned twice due to various reasons, (Resolution SC52 (April 04, 2011), Resolution SC217 (March 01, 2017) both of which focused on The Black Hawk's attempts to disturb national order, so should have disqualified any legislation from any member,
Okay, so first,again, not really an argument here, in the strictest sense. Taken as a whole, these clauses are attempting to say (badly) that by raiding and working with the Black Hawks - we have no treaty of alliance with them, for the record - we aren't living up to being an exemplary role model and a force for change.
You need some examples to back this up. Also, is it really your assertion that no member of TBH should ever be allowed to write SC legislation? That's not how condemnation works. Like. At all.


but wait, there's more!

REALIZING that the Founder of Europeia, The nation of King Hem, holds facist values to heart

If you're gonna call someone fascist when they're not, you gotta back that up with evidence. Fascist is a pretty serious charge. I've known HEM on and off for six years now. He ain't a fascist. Gotta provide some support for this wild claim here.

BUILDING upon that fact, Europeia, though noble in its bulwark anti-Nazism, reduces National Sovereignty to nothing, forcibly removing the decision from the Nation's hands in their raids of "unworthy" regions

Raiding has nothing to do with 'National Sovereignty', that's not how military gameplay works. At all. And there's no claim of 'unworthiness' in regards to the regions we raid.

RECOGNIZING that Section 5 ignores what nations were being apart of, Raiding parties, and instead focusing on the fact that nations were involved, further condemning the nation,

Europeia does do a hell of a lot more than Raid, you do realize? and I think you didn't complete your thought here

RECOGNIZING that the original proposal was deceitful in its clauses, only citing half the truth, and hereby repealing “Commend Europeia”

This is patently false, and this also doesn't count as an operative clause, so as written, this whole mess is unsubmittable.
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Vaculatestar64
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Postby Vaculatestar64 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:05 pm

Gotta have love for people who are to cowardly to post with their actual nation, and instead have to hide behind a puppet. Granted, it does save you some embarrassment.

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Aexnidaral
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Postby Aexnidaral » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:07 pm

Huh, well alrighty then
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The Noble Thatcherites
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Postby The Noble Thatcherites » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:19 pm

Against. Also, the action clause doesn't work.
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Postby Consular » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:24 pm

This is unlikely to pass, OP. The reality is Europeia is quite popular.

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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:32 pm

Consular wrote:This is unlikely to pass, OP. The reality is Europeia is quite popular.


The reality is that the proposal is practically nonsensical :P

The Grand Senate wrote:A proposal I've been thinking about since 10000 islands came out as staunchly against it.

First proposal, and first forum post. Don't be kind c:


Security Council,

RECOGNIZING that all facts stated in the original Proposal are true, with the exception(s) of;
1. Section 1, "Lauding Europeia's role at the forefront of the Independent ideology, notably including both being host to the pioneering Independent Convention and codifying the principles and values of Independentism in a landmark interregional document known as The Independent Manifesto,"
a. Due to Europeia's attempts to disturb national order by raiding smaller regions than themselves,


How does that explain why "Euro is a leader of Independantism" is untrue? Having invaded before has...like nothing to do with being "at the forefront of the Independent ideology" and having a history in forming it.

2. Section 12, "Believing that Europeia overall serves both as an exemplary role model for the world and as a force for positive change throughout it,"
a. Due to the fact that, once more, Europeia's many attempts at raiding smaller regions, along with allying themselves with the Black Hawks, leading to,


Whether one can have an overall positive effect and serve as a role model while also having raided is reasonably debatable. I do think you will find a general public opinion that at worst, the good outweighs any bad (assisted by the fact that any "raids" they participate in are unusually benign, with the exception of certain operations such as those against fascists.

REALIZING that the Nation which proposed the Commendation was, and is, a leading general of the Black Hawks, a region condemned twice due to various reasons, (Resolution SC52 (April 04, 2011), Resolution SC217 (March 01, 2017) both of which focused on The Black Hawk's attempts to disturb national order, so should have disqualified any legislation from any member,


If you'd prefer, you can think of me as Economa Incorporated, native resident of Black Mesa Islands since the day Milograd kicked me out of TSP, long time roleplayer, and current member of Madhouse Productions. Also, R2(d) - Repeals should address the contents of the resolution they're repealing, and not by just stating the reverse of the arguments given in the resolution. Fairly certain the background of the author is not relevant to the content of the proposal. Consider this a running heads up throughout your proposal on R2(d).

REALIZING that the Founder of Europeia, The nation of King Hem, holds facist values to heart, despite attempting to advertise itself as a Centrist Democracy, which is in direct conflict with Section 3 of the original proposal, which states, "Specifically Recognizing Europeia's commitment to anti-fascist military efforts, particularly the forceful presence of the Europeian Republican Navy on numerous operations in regions such as Nazi Europe, Greater German Reich, and Anne Frank, as well as Europeia's creation of the Coalition Against the Ideology of Nazism to unite regions across the world in the combat of fascism."


As you say later...source?

BUILDING upon that fact, Europeia, though noble in its bulwark anti-Nazism, reduces National Sovereignty to nothing, forcibly removing the decision from the Nation's hands in their raids of "unworthy" regions.


NatSov =/= regional sovereignty.

FURTHER REALZING that Section 4 of the original proposal is incredibly vague, not citing a source, or telling the Council percisely what this Revolutionary technology is that it has so noblely shared with other reigons, simply stating that such a technology exists.
1. Section 4 States, "Applauding the region for its impressive efforts to recruit nations to become a part of its territory, often using state-of-the-art technology that Europeia has developed, tested, and shared with other regions;"


See, proposals must be IC, so sometimes you have to tap dance around OOC things in IC terms. Europeia has created and shared several notable NS tools, notably several made by R3N, as mentioned in his own commendation.

RECOGNIZING that Section 5 ignores what nations were being apart of, Raiding parties, and instead focusing on the fact that nations were involved, further condemning the nation,
1.Section 5 states “Complementing the exemplary levels of participation in recruitment efforts from many individual nations in the region, whose efforts are largely responsible for the region perennially being among the largest regions for over a decade, as well as the Europeia's formal recognition of such”


See, and here you did the opposite - you seemed to have assumed that the OOC thing I was trying to say IC was that they raid regions to advertise, when this line actually *did* have a specific author's note/source present in the draft versions explaining it! :P

(Author note: Europeia has developed several recruitment tools used by many large regions, and is particularly notable for it's huge manual recruitment program - their Hall of Recruiters alone recognizes over 600,000 cumulative manual telegrams sent)


That clause recognizes the effort of nearly 200 nations in sending hundreds of thousands of manual recruitment telegrams for the region over the years, as well as the region’s support, encouragement, and recognition of such.

RECOGNIZING that the original proposal was deceitful in its clauses, only citing half the truth, and hereby repealing “Commend Europeia”


Even discounting the above criticism, "telling only half the truth in two of of 12 clauses" is a bit weak of an argument.
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Funkadelia
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Postby Funkadelia » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:18 am

Attacking the author of a resolution, especially when the resolution itself has nothing to do with them, is generally not a good idea.
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Fauxia
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Postby Fauxia » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:32 pm

REALIZING that the Founder of Europeia, The nation of King Hem, holds facist values to heart, despite attempting to advertise itself as a Centrist Democracy, which is in direct conflict with Section 3 of the original proposal, which states, "Specifically Recognizing Europeia's commitment to anti-fascist military efforts, particularly the forceful presence of the Europeian Republican Navy on numerous operations in regions such as Nazi Europe, Greater German Reich, and Anne Frank, as well as Europeia's creation of the Coalition Against the Ideology of Nazism to unite regions across the world in the combat of fascism."
I’d have some interest in a repeal of this commendation, but what the hell is this? This resolution doesn’t have enough argument to repeal the commend. Against.
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Ramaeus
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Postby Ramaeus » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:56 pm

Nah, Euro earned it.
Just some weeb.

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Frisbeeteria
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:18 pm

The Grand Senate wrote:the Founder of Europeia, The nation of King Hem, holds facist values to heart,

Despite being phrased as a nation, this reads like it's about the player. That would be a R3 violation in my book.

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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:23 pm

Against, due to the R3 violation and the reasons outlined by Ever-Wandering Souls. If re-drafted, I'll take a look at it again.

Also, I can't help but wonder how the proposal was 'deceitful'. Elaborate, please?
Last edited by Greater Cesnica on Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:16 pm

Fauxia wrote:Against.


Isn’t first draft a bit early to declare against, especially if you support the idea? :P

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Also, I can't help but wonder how the proposal was 'deceitful'. Elaborate, please?



The author is from XKI - it’s probably “deceitful” because it shows someone who happens to invade things sometimes in something other than a highly critical light :P
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
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Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

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How Do I Telegram API?

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Fauxia
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Postby Fauxia » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:34 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Fauxia wrote:Against.


Isn’t first draft a bit early to declare against, especially if you support the idea? :P[/quote]Well, I may support the idea, I only said I'm interested in the idea, but this doesn't seem reconcilable to me. So not too early.
Last edited by Fauxia on Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:15 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:
Also, I can't help but wonder how the proposal was 'deceitful'. Elaborate, please?



The author is from XKI - it’s probably “deceitful” because it shows someone who happens to invade things sometimes in something other than a highly critical light :P

Well then. Touche.
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Kaboomlandia
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Postby Kaboomlandia » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:08 am

The Grand Senate wrote:REALIZING that the Founder of Europeia, The nation of King Hem, holds facist values to heart

lolwut

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