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Divitalia
Envoy
 
Posts: 310
Founded: Nov 09, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Divitalia » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:36 am

Divitalia wrote:Can a nation or region have a commendation repealed for a reason not related to the reason they were commended?


Also, can a region by simultaneously condemned and commended for different reasons?
My NStats DO NOT necessarily represent my political views!

Political Compass (Mine, not my nation’s):
Economic Left/Right: 2.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.31

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Jar Wattinree
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 428
Founded: Dec 14, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jar Wattinree » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:42 am

Divitalia wrote:
Divitalia wrote:Can a nation or region have a commendation repealed for a reason not related to the reason they were commended?


Also, can a region by simultaneously condemned and commended for different reasons?

It is possible but I've not heard of such a thing happening before. There's no hard rule that says a Condemnation must be repealed for a Commendation.
There is a blade for you. It is shaped like [it will find you]. Take up the blade. Push yourself upon it. Take your new shape.

Governor of Province Andre
Praetorian of the New Pacific Order
Civilization Index: Tier 7, Level 6, Type 6

Any and all opinions expressed by this nation are his alone, and not representative of the New Pacific Order unless explicitly stated otherwise.

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Lenlyvit
Diplomat
 
Posts: 790
Founded: Feb 13, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Lenlyvit » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:11 am

Divitalia wrote:
Divitalia wrote:Can a nation or region have a commendation repealed for a reason not related to the reason they were commended?


Also, can a region by simultaneously condemned and commended for different reasons?

1. Not sure, actually. You have to address the resolution you are repealing, while at the same time proving why they no longer deserve it.

2. That is 100% possible, but its never been done before.
Citizen of The Rejected Realms
Author of SC#242, SC#245, and SC#253, Co-author of SC#218
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Wrapper
Senior Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 5283
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wrapper » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:26 am

Divitalia wrote:Can a nation or region have a commendation repealed for a reason not related to the reason they were commended?

Not really. According to Rule 2(d), "Repeals should address the contents of the resolution they're repealing, and not by just stating the reverse of the arguments given in the resolution." That said, you can add a lot of other clauses that aren't related to the reason they were commended (or condemned), to bolster your argument.

Divitalia wrote:Also, can a region by simultaneously condemned and commended for different reasons?

Yes, absolutely, and so can a nation.
Last edited by Wrapper on Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PatrickStar
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 45
Founded: Jan 27, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby PatrickStar » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:06 am

Would referencing the "Guide to the SC" topic be appropriate in a proposal?
THE CONCH HAS SPOKEN

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Wrapper
Senior Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 5283
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wrapper » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:07 am

I can't imagine a scenario where it would be legal to do so.

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PatrickStar
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 45
Founded: Jan 27, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby PatrickStar » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:08 am

That's what I thought. Thank you Wrapper.
THE CONCH HAS SPOKEN

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Blood Wine
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1421
Founded: Jan 12, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Blood Wine » Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:52 pm

Would the term "puppetmasters" run afoul of rule 4b?

Enraged that Lazarus, a region of great importance, has allowed itself to be subverted and to be converted into a recruitment base by the evil, condemned puppetmasters from Lone Wolves United
Formerly known as Port Blood
Current foreign Minister of gay
Elke and Elba wrote:Well Mall, you want Haven? I'd want your Joint Systems Alliance badge, then.
Discoveria wrote:Port blood is a raider through and through. Honest.
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Wrapper
Senior Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 5283
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wrapper » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:39 pm

No, it's been ruled fine.

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Divitalia
Envoy
 
Posts: 310
Founded: Nov 09, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Divitalia » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:25 pm

If a proposal does not reach quorum, can it be resubmitted without any changes, or are changes a requirement for resubmission?
My NStats DO NOT necessarily represent my political views!

Political Compass (Mine, not my nation’s):
Economic Left/Right: 2.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.31

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Lenlyvit
Diplomat
 
Posts: 790
Founded: Feb 13, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Lenlyvit » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:32 pm

Divitalia wrote:If a proposal does not reach quorum, can it be resubmitted without any changes, or are changes a requirement for resubmission?

You can resubmit without changes.
Citizen of The Rejected Realms
Author of SC#242, SC#245, and SC#253, Co-author of SC#218
Former TITO Tactical Officer
Former Commander of TGW, UDSAF, and FORGE
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WA Character limit increase to 5,000 characters

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Divitalia
Envoy
 
Posts: 310
Founded: Nov 09, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Divitalia » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:34 pm

Lenlyvit wrote:
Divitalia wrote:If a proposal does not reach quorum, can it be resubmitted without any changes, or are changes a requirement for resubmission?

You can resubmit without changes.


Thanks.
My NStats DO NOT necessarily represent my political views!

Political Compass (Mine, not my nation’s):
Economic Left/Right: 2.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.31

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Lenlyvit
Diplomat
 
Posts: 790
Founded: Feb 13, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Lenlyvit » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:41 pm

So, due to a conversation in another thread I need to ask this question. Can GCRs be liberated by the SC, or are they exempt due to passwords not being able to be placed upon them?
Citizen of The Rejected Realms
Author of SC#242, SC#245, and SC#253, Co-author of SC#218
Former TITO Tactical Officer
Former Commander of TGW, UDSAF, and FORGE
Proud founder of The Hole To Hide In
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Person behind the Offsite Chat tag and the Jump Point tag
WA Character limit increase to 5,000 characters

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United Massachusetts
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1466
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:46 pm

They can, at least game-code wise (I proposed Liberate TEP--check the WA happenings)

So, that's cool.
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Author: GA 417

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Lord Dominator
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1536
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:48 pm

Lenlyvit wrote:So, due to a conversation in another thread I need to ask this question. Can GCRs be liberated by the SC, or are they exempt due to passwords not being able to be placed upon them?

I just looked at the compedium of mod rulings and one of the things in the edit list says they are, but it didn't look like anywhere else in said thread mentions it. So I have no actual idea

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Wrapper
Senior Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 5283
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wrapper » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:00 pm

Lenlyvit wrote:So, due to a conversation in another thread I need to ask this question. Can GCRs be liberated by the SC, or are they exempt due to passwords not being able to be placed upon them?

Yes, it's legal (relevant ruling), though such a liberation would only be symbolic, as it will have no effect gameside.

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Lord Dominator
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1536
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:03 pm

Wrapper wrote:
Lenlyvit wrote:So, due to a conversation in another thread I need to ask this question. Can GCRs be liberated by the SC, or are they exempt due to passwords not being able to be placed upon them?

Yes, it's legal (relevant ruling), though such a liberation would only be symbolic, as it will have no effect gameside.

Thanks Wrapper!

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Lenlyvit
Diplomat
 
Posts: 790
Founded: Feb 13, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Lenlyvit » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:07 pm

Wrapper wrote:
Lenlyvit wrote:So, due to a conversation in another thread I need to ask this question. Can GCRs be liberated by the SC, or are they exempt due to passwords not being able to be placed upon them?

Yes, it's legal (relevant ruling), though such a liberation would only be symbolic, as it will have no effect gameside.

Thanks Wrapper!
Citizen of The Rejected Realms
Author of SC#242, SC#245, and SC#253, Co-author of SC#218
Former TITO Tactical Officer
Former Commander of TGW, UDSAF, and FORGE
Proud founder of The Hole To Hide In
Person behind the Regional Officer resignation button
Person behind the Offsite Chat tag and the Jump Point tag
WA Character limit increase to 5,000 characters

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Consular
Minister
 
Posts: 2664
Founded: Apr 10, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Consular » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:43 am

Is it legal to submit joke proposals now? I wasn't gone THAT long :unsure:

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Lenlyvit
Diplomat
 
Posts: 790
Founded: Feb 13, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Lenlyvit » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:04 am

Consular wrote:Is it legal to submit joke proposals now? I wasn't gone THAT long :unsure:

I also would like an answer to this. Souls admitted in his thread that it was a joke proposal, yet its marked as legal and going to vote sooner or later.
Citizen of The Rejected Realms
Author of SC#242, SC#245, and SC#253, Co-author of SC#218
Former TITO Tactical Officer
Former Commander of TGW, UDSAF, and FORGE
Proud founder of The Hole To Hide In
Person behind the Regional Officer resignation button
Person behind the Offsite Chat tag and the Jump Point tag
WA Character limit increase to 5,000 characters

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Fratt
Attaché
 
Posts: 67
Founded: Mar 20, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fratt » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:05 am

Consular wrote:Is it legal to submit joke proposals now? I wasn't gone THAT long :unsure:


If you're talking about Liberate TEP, that was (partly) my objection too, but since it was ruled legal by three mods I guess it's fine somehow.

The definition of what counts as a "joke proposal" is also unclear (as in, never clarified): "Commend You" was considered legal in the past.

On Condemn Souls, that's not a joke proposal, imo. The only "joke" part, really, is the fact that it's a self-condemnation. However self-C&Cs are explicitly considered legal.
Last edited by Fratt on Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ransium
Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 4808
Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ransium » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:14 am

Give me a break, you don’t want us to take a hard line on joke proposals, besides [violet] has always maintained the voters are the main assessment of quality. Most proposal have an element of humor in them, was Condemn Wrapper a joke proposal? The second I start removing proposals that have a serious chance of passing because they are “joke proposals” 50 aggrieved parties will be breathing down my neck for being biased and overly eager to interfere with the WA.
Last edited by Ransium on Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Commended by SC 236,
WA Delegate of Forest since March 20th, 2007.
Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, and GA 403.
Issues Editor since January 20th, 2017.
Author of 17 issues. First editor of 42.
Forum Moderator since November 10th, 2017. Game Moderator since March 15th, 2018.

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Flanderlion
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1202
Founded: Nov 25, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Flanderlion » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:12 am

Ransium wrote:Give me a break, you don’t want us to take a hard line on joke proposals, besides [violet] has always maintained the voters are the main assessment of quality. Most proposal have an element of humor in them, was Condemn Wrapper a joke proposal? The second I start removing proposals that have a serious chance of passing because they are “joke proposals” 50 aggrieved parties will be breathing down my neck for being biased and overly eager to interfere with the WA.

I think either ditch the rule or enforce it. Having joke proposals where the author literally said it was a joke proposal to make fun of the SC is something I'd put on the wrong side of the line. Condemn Wrapper on the other hand I'd put as alright as it was just recognising a deserving player in an amusing way, so its always a judgement call it the rule is kept.
As always, I'm representing myself as a citizen, rather than as part of the Government, if I am at the time.

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Ransium
Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 4808
Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ransium » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:21 am

In the past, it's been used to throw out things like "Condemn Your Mom", and that's a power I'd rather not get rid of.
Commended by SC 236,
WA Delegate of Forest since March 20th, 2007.
Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, and GA 403.
Issues Editor since January 20th, 2017.
Author of 17 issues. First editor of 42.
Forum Moderator since November 10th, 2017. Game Moderator since March 15th, 2018.

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Frisbeeteria
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 21645
Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:59 am

Ransium wrote:In the past, it's been used to throw out things like "Condemn Your Mom", and that's a power I'd rather not get rid of.

Ransium is not alone in this judgement. I don't want the rule tossed either.

Flanderlion wrote:Having joke proposals where the author literally said it was a joke proposal to make fun of the SC

I haven't seen that post. Was it on the forums prior to the proposal being ruled legal? Because apart from the one line about the overuse of pink, I think it reads as a serious proposal. Pretty much every SC proposals pokes somebody with a sharp stick through the bars of their cage. I'm not seeing anything significantly different in "Liberate The East Pacific".

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