[DRAFT] Repeal "Condemn Macedon"

[Todd McCloud]

Should I dig up that one post that I usually make when this comes to a vote?

[Sygian II]

Should I dig up that one post that I usually make when this comes to a vote?

Please do! xD

[Angry Kittens]

Holding trophies is reason for condemnation now?

Ideally, yes

The thing with Macedon is that those regions are mostly RL nation names which could be host to active communities. Instead they remain subject to the 'Macedonian Empire', and players are redirected to the dead region of Macedonia, a region which promotes the RL views of Macedonian nationalism and has nothing to do with these occupied regions.

If anything, someone should write a nice condemnation for Alexander 3 The Great.

[Cerian Quilor]

Holding trophies is reason for condemnation now?

Ideally, yes

The thing with Macedon is that those regions are mostly RL nation names which could be host to active communities. Instead they remain subject to the 'Macedonian Empire', and players are redirected to the dead region of Macedonia, a region which promotes the RL views of Macedonian nationalism and has nothing to do with these occupied regions.

If anything, someone should write a nice condemnation for Alexander 3 The Great.

There are lots of places that could be host to active communities but aren't. That was condemn worthy a long time ago, but its not now. Else we should be condemning Antifa and its constituent members for all the regions they hold, even ones with names that aren't explicitly Nazi or Fascist, that aren't useable by anyone because they hold it.

[Todd McCloud]

This is one of the last threads to discuss this condemnation. I've quoted my response below, but Sedge and NSA spoke about this condemnation at length too.

I get notifications every time a repeat of this resolution comes forward, which usually is proposed once every 1-2 months. Most of the time it doesn't reach the floor due to failing quorum or some kind of rule violation. Though, the last time it did reach the floor, the repeal was voted down 10,023 to 1,687. Too many people remember them and what they did. At the time, not even the dastardly of raiders wanted to associate with them. There's many examples on their behavior that most on this site would find abhorrent and definitely not something to emulate.

That being said, I've read this over and it doesn't use the typical arguments proposals seem to make, namely:
1. The region is now deserted therefore they shouldn't have the condemnation.
2. They've moved to the region Macedonia, and therefore we should repeal this one and condemn Macedonia

Which is good. I would say that the SC is much better at authoring these resolutions nowadays than in the past (especially when looking at some of the early resolutions I wrote), but even with the poor wording, everyone understood just how deplorable the behavior of that organization was. I think that says quite a bit, in all honesty. Condemn Macedon wasn't even the first resolution to vote; that distinction goes to Condemn Gatesville, written by Kenny, and was defeated a few days prior to this one coming to vote. Meaning that this region beat out what was arguably the most polarizing UCR region the game has ever seen. That's huge, in my opinion.

As Sedge indicated, Macedon was responsible for bringing about Liberations, especially with Belgium and France. Some other notable fights included Greece and some other Greek-themed regions among others. The SC was, from what I remember, kind of a Sandbox that was like a saloon in the old west. Always a fight, especially when it came between GAers and Gameplay, two groups that had to learn to play nice in the early going. Those old resolutions for the most part have stood the test of time because at that time one side would work to counter a resolution passed by another side. Well-written bills like Commend Jey were defeated for the most part due to this fighting early on.

Even without the logs of OOC racism and off-site trickery, I think it's fitting they're the first region to be condemned. Unfortunately a lot of the stuff they did do occurred before many players these days played the game and, as Sedge indicated in his post, before gameplay was really a force on the forums.

[Angry Kittens]

There are lots of places that could be host to active communities but aren't. That was condemn worthy a long time ago, but its not now. Else we should be condemning Antifa and its constituent members for all the regions they hold, even ones with names that aren't explicitly Nazi or Fascist, that aren't useable by anyone because they hold it.

I would argue that "Condemn Macedon" is a historic resolution and should remain in place nonetheless, no matter how things "have changed". Keeping regions as dead trophies when they could be active communities should always be something condemnable.

Condemning ANTIFA wouldn't really be that bad of an idea, if the resolution can be worded properly, since as you have stated, they act in the same in-game manner as Macedon. Albeit, nobody really cares about those communities destroyed by ANTIFA due to their RL ideological connections and the false image that all of them are Nazi/Fascist themed. That is the main difference.

[Honeydewistan]

ok ok! i get it!
im dropping it!

[Roavin]

I would argue that "Condemn Macedon" is a historic resolution and should remain in place nonetheless, no matter how things "have changed". Keeping regions as dead trophies when they could be active communities should always be something condemnable.

Unfortunately (and somewhat ironically), it's an acceptable practice nowadays.

[Cerian Quilor]

There are lots of places that could be host to active communities but aren't. That was condemn worthy a long time ago, but its not now. Else we should be condemning Antifa and its constituent members for all the regions they hold, even ones with names that aren't explicitly Nazi or Fascist, that aren't useable by anyone because they hold it.

I would argue that "Condemn Macedon" is a historic resolution and should remain in place nonetheless, no matter how things "have changed". Keeping regions as dead trophies when they could be active communities should always be something condemnable.

Condemning ANTIFA wouldn't really be that bad of an idea, if the resolution can be worded properly, since as you have stated, they act in the same in-game manner as Macedon. Albeit, nobody really cares about those communities destroyed by ANTIFA due to their RL ideological connections and the false image that all of them are Nazi/Fascist themed. That is the main difference.

There are plenty of regions they take that are not Nazi or Fascist. Just off the top of my head, they have one region that 'freed' after being conquered by some long defunct 'dicitatorial' region that they refounded and have held permenantly as a sign 'freedom will always win', and god forbid anyone else would like to use it.