[DEFEATED] Liberate Antalia

[Neo Libertalius]

Date: 14/01/2017
To: WA Security Council
From: Overlord President Joshua Scheunemann; United Scheunemann Socialist Republic (USSR)
Subject: Resolution: Liberate Antalia

I first would like to thank the WA for admitting me in and would like to take this time to state that we should have more for this resolution and I condemn any country or reigon who has voted against this resolution. We should be in more fear that the country will have a password put onto its borders and will be isolated from the rest of the world. We should not and will not take a lie down approach to diplomacy. We should show force and power under pressure and in times of trouble. This may sound crazy from someone so new to this and just becoming active on the fourms here, but I want to show the power of diplomacy and what my country will respond to acts of aggression and a whimpering and weak security council won't even play ball and keep willful acts of aggression to a mininium. For all we know they could but up a password and then declare their nuclear aresenal. We need to show force to protect our own and not allow them to be taken hostage like this.

I will waiting for the change or will be forced towards more drastic measures.

Signed,
Overlord President Joshua Scheunemann

What aggression? The raiders haven't done anything besides sit there.

They're also not taken hostage. They can quite literally leave whenever they want. To my knowledge, passwords prevent people from getting in, not out.

[United Scheunemann Socialist Republic]

Date: 14/01/2017
To: WA Security Council
From: Overlord President Joshua Scheunemann; United Scheunemann Socialist Republic (USSR)
Subject: Resolution: Liberate Antalia

I first would like to thank the WA for admitting me in and would like to take this time to state that we should have more for this resolution and I condemn any country or reigon who has voted against this resolution. We should be in more fear that the country will have a password put onto its borders and will be isolated from the rest of the world. We should not and will not take a lie down approach to diplomacy. We should show force and power under pressure and in times of trouble. This may sound crazy from someone so new to this and just becoming active on the fourms here, but I want to show the power of diplomacy and what my country will respond to acts of aggression and a whimpering and weak security council won't even play ball and keep willful acts of aggression to a mininium. For all we know they could but up a password and then declare their nuclear aresenal. We need to show force to protect our own and not allow them to be taken hostage like this.

I will waiting for the change or will be forced towards more drastic measures.

Signed,
Overlord President Joshua Scheunemann

What aggression? The raiders haven't done anything besides sit there.

They're also not taken hostage. They can quite literally leave whenever they want. To my knowledge, passwords prevent people from getting in, not out.

Yea I know they can leave whenever they want but this is the lazy man (couch) diplomacy. We should not even allow this to happen and show aggressive tactics to prevent it from happening again.

[Neo Libertalius]

What aggression? The raiders haven't done anything besides sit there.

They're also not taken hostage. They can quite literally leave whenever they want. To my knowledge, passwords prevent people from getting in, not out.

Yea I know they can leave whenever they want but this is the lazy man (couch) diplomacy. We should not even allow this to happen and show aggressive tactics to prevent it from happening again.

But the founder's okay with it. What the founder says, goes. That's pretty much how things go.

Besides, we're still waiting on confirmation that there is a they, Otherwise, we'd just be "liberating" a country of people who don't want to be liberated.

[United Scheunemann Socialist Republic]

Yea I know they can leave whenever they want but this is the lazy man (couch) diplomacy. We should not even allow this to happen and show aggressive tactics to prevent it from happening again.

But the founder's okay with it. What the founder says, goes. That's pretty much how things go.


Besides, we're still waiting on confirmation that there is a they, Otherwise, we'd just be "liberating" a country of people who don't want to be liberated.

If they are ok with it and not be infulenced by a third party and allow them to be absorbed into a a more WA centric country or region and not a hostile nation/region, so be it then. But we should not allow it to happen and show that we don't take it. Let's liberate the country to let the people have a better life and a better country. Let's make Antalia great again!

[Neo Libertalius]

But the founder's okay with it. What the founder says, goes. That's pretty much how things go.


Besides, we're still waiting on confirmation that there is a they, Otherwise, we'd just be "liberating" a country of people who don't want to be liberated.

If they are ok with it and not be infulenced by a third party and allow them to be absorbed into a a more WA centric country or region and not a hostile nation/region, so be it then. But we should not allow it to happen and show that we don't take it. Let's liberate the country to let the people have a better life and a better country. Let's make Antalia great again!

"Liberating" a country with little to no evidence to do so is just as bad as raiding them and kicking out dissent. By doing that, when we have no evidence other than hearsay, we would still be forcing control from the founder (and thus, owner) for slightly different ideals.

Also, the raiders may not be WA centric, but there are legitimate reasons for not being in the WA. Some nations find it to be too authoritarian, and would not like the rest of the world to dictate how they run their countries, or perhaps they don't like the majority of acts passed by it. So being assimilated into a "WA-centric region" would not always be a great idea either.


Not to mention that regions cannot force their nations to join the WA (they might reject nations that don't, but isn't that just as bad?)

[United Scheunemann Socialist Republic]

//OFFICIAL//
We still need to keep the peace and let the resolution pass so if we didn't need it in the end we can just quickly repeal it so we wouldn't have another incident. Better safe then sorry and it will would show that we mean business! Why can't you guys see that and not let possible aggressions and terrorist attacks on other countries! We need to be swift, we need to show power and the means to back it up, and we need to show diplomacy!


Singed forever in revolt,

Overlord President Joshua Scheunemann

[Neo Libertalius]

//OFFICIAL//
We still need to keep the peace and let the resolution pass so if we didn't need it in the end we can just quickly repeal it so we wouldn't have another incident. Better safe then sorry and it will would show that we mean business! Why can't you guys see that and not let possible aggressions and terrorist attacks on other countries! We need to be swift, we need to show power and the means to back it up, and we need to show diplomacy!


Singed forever in revolt,

Overlord President Joshua Scheunemann

Passing it and repealing it right afterwards would be both reckless and even more pointless. Considering the last law we passed would probably end in a repeal, it would do the exact opposite of "showing we mean business". These processes are long. It is a waste of other people's time. Besides, to my knowledge liberating this region will not stop these raiders from picking other regions to raid. If raiders were scared of the SC, they wouldn't be raiders.

I doubt it's going to pass anyways. There are not enough strong reasons to support other than differing philosophies as to who rules a region (which someone apparently disproved with a quote earlier), plus the opposition to the bill is almost five times larger than the support of it already.

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

//OFFICIAL//
We still need to keep the peace and let the resolution pass so if we didn't need it in the end we can just quickly repeal it so we wouldn't have another incident. Better safe then sorry and it will would show that we mean business! Why can't you guys see that and not let possible aggressions and terrorist attacks on other countries! We need to be swift, we need to show power and the means to back it up, and we need to show diplomacy!


Singed forever in revolt,

Overlord President Joshua Scheunemann

Passing it and repealing it right afterwards would be both reckless and even more pointless. Considering the last law we passed would probably end in a repeal, it would do the exact opposite of "showing we mean business". These processes are long. It is a waste of other people's time. Besides, to my knowledge liberating this region will not stop these raiders from picking other regions to raid. If raiders were scared of the SC, they wouldn't be raiders.

I doubt it's going to pass anyways. There are not enough strong reasons to support other than differing philosophies as to who rules a region (which someone apparently disproved with a quote earlier), plus the opposition to the bill is almost five times larger than the support of it already.

I would say, thankfully, that the Imperialist Battalions are not an experienced raiding/invading region and more likely to do an unsuccessful refounding. If Antalia actually went under a occupation by one of the more experienced raiding/invading regions, though, that would be a different story.

Also, I do believe that we should be better safe than sorry. It might just be that right after this Liberation, the invaders refound the region immediately, and the natives and the Founder loses the region. Would we want that? No. Would it embarrass the World Assembly? Yes. We should approve this, at the very least, due to the fact that the region will most likely be refounded, without extensive or moderate doubt.

[Wallenburg]

The founder supports the raiders. Therefore, Antalia is a raider region. I see no legitimate reason to liberate a raider region.

[United Massachusetts]

The founder supports the raiders. Therefore, Antalia is a raider region. I see no legitimate reason to liberate a raider region.

Correct. In fact, it would do literally nothing.

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

The founder supports the raiders. Therefore, Antalia is a raider region. I see no legitimate reason to liberate a raider region.

Correct. In fact, it would do literally nothing.

However, there are still innocent nations in the region, who still love the region, but hate the raiders.

We need to give them back their region, even if it means going against the Founders' prime objective.

[Wallenburg]

Correct. In fact, it would do literally nothing.

However, there are still innocent nations in the region, who still love the region, but hate the raiders.

We need to give them back their region, even if it means going against the Founders' prime objective.

It is not their region. It is the founder's region. How would you like it if the Security Council came in and said that your region ought to be a raider region, and then liberated you so that raiders could infiltrate and attempt to take over?

[Drasnia]

Correct. In fact, it would do literally nothing.

However, there are still innocent nations in the region, who still love the region, but hate the raiders.

We need to give them back their region, even if it means going against the Founders' prime objective.

the fuck you talking about? All I see is a region with wannabe raises and a finger who doesn't care. There's no outrage by these mysterious natives you soak about - not on the forums and bit on their WFE. This is a complete waste of our time and your idiotic posturing annoys me. This proposal is contemptuous and movie the SC.

[Neo Libertalius]

I hope you get that "compilation of remarks from dissatisfied natives" published soon, like you said. Because the longer you wait, the less likely it is that people will see things your way.

Like I said a couple days ago, quite frankly you should have done that way before taking over the proposal. Nobody here is going to let a founder be revoked the right of their region based on hearsay.

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

I hope you get that "compilation of remarks from dissatisfied natives" published soon, like you said. Because the longer you wait, the less likely it is that people will see things your way.

Like I said a couple days ago, quite frankly you should have done that way before taking over the proposal. Nobody here is going to let a founder be revoked the right of their region based on hearsay.

The problem is, we can't just wait for them to tell us something's wrong before everything goes wrong. They've already expressed dismay on their Regional Message Board, and even worse, the Imperialist Battalions is planning to "Annex," or in other words, Refound the region! And what will the Founder do? Nothing. The natives need help.

[Wallenburg]

I hope you get that "compilation of remarks from dissatisfied natives" published soon, like you said. Because the longer you wait, the less likely it is that people will see things your way.

Like I said a couple days ago, quite frankly you should have done that way before taking over the proposal. Nobody here is going to let a founder be revoked the right of their region based on hearsay.

The problem is, we can't just wait for them to tell us something's wrong before everything goes wrong.

What exactly can go wrong under these circumstances? The region is functioning perfectly fine.

They've already expressed dismay on their Regional Message Board,

No, they have not.

and even worse, the Imperialist Battalions is planning to "Annex," or in other words, Refound the region!

How are they going to refound if the founder is still around?

And what will the Founder do? Nothing. The natives need help.

If the natives don't like what the founder is doing, they can create their own region, and thereby go around the founder entirely.

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

The problem is, we can't just wait for them to tell us something's wrong before everything goes wrong.

What exactly can go wrong under these circumstances? The region is functioning perfectly fine.

They've already expressed dismay on their Regional Message Board,

No, they have not.

and even worse, the Imperialist Battalions is planning to "Annex," or in other words, Refound the region!

How are they going to refound if the founder is still around?

And what will the Founder do? Nothing. The natives need help.

If the natives don't like what the founder is doing, they can create their own region, and thereby go around the founder entirely.

I do believe you need to check the Antalia Regional Message Board.

Also, even though the founder is still around, the Founder doesn't care. He's practically endorsing the invader Delegate, and he hasn't been seen to do anything to protect the region. The natives? They want to keep the region.

[Neo Libertalius]

They've already expressed dismay on their Regional Message Board

You mean the one that moved there right after creating their region, so probably a puppet, and the one who willingly moved there just a few days ago, coincidentally around the time you suddenly got a telegram from them, expressing displeasure from them? Because unless there's someone there who has been there before occupation (which is unlikely. The region is already filled with raiders. In fact, it appears that this proposal has brought more supporters, than cause people to leave. Check the battalion's RMB).

The non-raiders who appear to have problems with the occupation, (so far, as you have not provided any evidence to the contrary) are nations who willingly moved into a region that had raider occupation, which they had to have known about. We can't even be sure that they're different people, again, until provided evidence.

And you can't say that they couldn't have known, considering that it's not a secret that the region is occupied by raiders.

[The Second Moon Rising]

After consideration, The Second Moon Rising has decided to vote against the liberation.

If Imperialist Battalions is truly attempting a raid, they have undertaken the laughable task of attempting to take control of a Region that has an active Founder, and no amount of endorsements to a Regional Delegate under Imperialist Battalions' control can strip an active Founder of their control over the Region. And while The Second Moon Rising acknowledges that the initial proposal was submitted by the native The Hidden Shadows, said native -- who had shown ample evidence that they know exactly where to find the Security Council and related forums -- has not returned to support these continued efforts. Furthermore, there has been no verifiable evidence that shows support for the proposal from natives that predate the initial 'raid'. There is, however, evidence that the Founder is in support of the Imperialist Battalions' occupation. The author of the current proposal, Aimdar-Goomdar, has even insinuated that the native The Hidden Shadows may have interests in favor of the occupation. Therefore, The Second Moon Rising can only conclude that, until a native that predates the initial 'raid' speaks up to the contrary, this occupation is consensual. Similarly, The Second Moon Rising can only conclude that the initial proposal by the native The Hidden Shadows was a knee-jerk reaction and has since been explained to them, hence the utter lack of support of the current proposal.

Simply put, the Founder is still in control of the region and was active as of yesterday. The region is in no danger of being refounded, nor does it seem that the Imperialist Battalions have any intention to do more than write their names on the wall with chalk.

I do believe you need to check the Antalia Regional Message Board.

The Riser delegate finishes reading the official statement from The Second Moon Rising and, after doing a quick search on a provided datapad, lets out a shocked cry. "This one should have checked this sooner!"



"The outrage! The dismay!" The Riser delegate makes a grand gesture. "It is all so blinding, this one cannot even see it..!"

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

After consideration, The Second Moon Rising has decided to vote against the liberation.

If Imperialist Battalions is truly attempting a raid, they have undertaken the laughable task of attempting to take control of a Region that has an active Founder, and no amount of endorsements to a Regional Delegate under Imperialist Battalions' control can strip an active Founder of their control over the Region. And while The Second Moon Rising acknowledges that the initial proposal was submitted by the native The Hidden Shadows, said native -- who had shown ample evidence that they know exactly where to find the Security Council and related forums -- has not returned to support these continued efforts. Furthermore, there has been no verifiable evidence that shows support for the proposal from natives that predate the initial 'raid'. There is, however, evidence that the Founder is in support of the Imperialist Battalions' occupation. The author of the current proposal, Aimdar-Goomdar, has even insinuated that the native The Hidden Shadows may have interests in favor of the occupation. Therefore, The Second Moon Rising can only conclude that, until a native that predates the initial 'raid' speaks up to the contrary, this occupation is consensual. Similarly, The Second Moon Rising can only conclude that the initial proposal by the native The Hidden Shadows was a knee-jerk reaction and has since been explained to them, hence the utter lack of support of the current proposal.

Simply put, the Founder is still in control of the region and was active as of yesterday. The region is in no danger of being refounded, nor does it seem that the Imperialist Battalions have any intention to do more than write their names on the wall with chalk.

I do believe you need to check the Antalia Regional Message Board.

The Riser delegate finishes reading the official statement from The Second Moon Rising and, after doing a quick search on a provided datapad, lets out a shocked cry. "This one should have checked this sooner!"



"The outrage! The dismay!" The Riser delegate makes a grand gesture. "It is all so blinding, this one cannot even see it..!"

The outrage and dismay is present in the objective of the posts, not the posts themselves.

Furthermore, the Delegate has allowed for the Imperialist Battalions to retain their officer positions and maintain a presence in the region, with the Founder doing pretty much no protective measures whatsoever.

[Neo Libertalius]

After consideration, The Second Moon Rising has decided to vote against the liberation.

If Imperialist Battalions is truly attempting a raid, they have undertaken the laughable task of attempting to take control of a Region that has an active Founder, and no amount of endorsements to a Regional Delegate under Imperialist Battalions' control can strip an active Founder of their control over the Region. And while The Second Moon Rising acknowledges that the initial proposal was submitted by the native The Hidden Shadows, said native -- who had shown ample evidence that they know exactly where to find the Security Council and related forums -- has not returned to support these continued efforts. Furthermore, there has been no verifiable evidence that shows support for the proposal from natives that predate the initial 'raid'. There is, however, evidence that the Founder is in support of the Imperialist Battalions' occupation. The author of the current proposal, Aimdar-Goomdar, has even insinuated that the native The Hidden Shadows may have interests in favor of the occupation. Therefore, The Second Moon Rising can only conclude that, until a native that predates the initial 'raid' speaks up to the contrary, this occupation is consensual. Similarly, The Second Moon Rising can only conclude that the initial proposal by the native The Hidden Shadows was a knee-jerk reaction and has since been explained to them, hence the utter lack of support of the current proposal.

Simply put, the Founder is still in control of the region and was active as of yesterday. The region is in no danger of being refounded, nor does it seem that the Imperialist Battalions have any intention to do more than write their names on the wall with chalk.



The Riser delegate finishes reading the official statement from The Second Moon Rising and, after doing a quick search on a provided datapad, lets out a shocked cry. "This one should have checked this sooner!"

(Image)

"The outrage! The dismay!" The Riser delegate makes a grand gesture. "It is all so blinding, this one cannot even see it..!"

The outrage and dismay is present in the objective of the posts, not the posts themselves.

Furthermore, the Delegate has allowed for the Imperialist Battalions to retain their officer positions and maintain a presence in the region, with the Founder doing pretty much no protective measures whatsoever.

That's not outrage and dismay, that's curiosity. Possibly confusion.

[Wallenburg]

I do believe you need to check the Antalia Regional Message Board.

I have checked the region's RMB already. Twice. I call bullshit on your claim.

Also, even though the founder is still around, the Founder doesn't care. He's practically endorsing the invader Delegate, and he hasn't been seen to do anything to protect the region.

Perhaps because he doesn't see the raiders as a threat, and wants Antalia to be a raider region?

The natives? They want to keep the region.

It isn't their region to keep.

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

I do believe you need to check the Antalia Regional Message Board.

I have checked the region's RMB already. Twice. I call bullshit on your claim.

Also, even though the founder is still around, the Founder doesn't care. He's practically endorsing the invader Delegate, and he hasn't been seen to do anything to protect the region.

Perhaps because he doesn't see the raiders as a threat, and wants Antalia to be a raider region?

The natives? They want to keep the region.

It isn't their region to keep.

If Antalia is really now a raider region [with a tag on their WFE by Imperialist Battalions and officers from that same region], they [the natives in the region and the Founder] pretty much have no power/representation/regional culture.

I would demand to get an answer from CyanX regarding the state of his/her region then.

[The Second Moon Rising]

They've already expressed dismay on their Regional Message Board

The outrage and dismay is present in the objective of the posts, not the posts themselves.

The Riser delegate tilts its head. "There is no dismay being expressed. There is no outrage and dismay present 'in the objective of the posts'. There is only the antics of some very specially-challenged individuals who have decided to make a minor mess in a very cleanable area, and a few curious nations that have arrived to spectate; in fact, not one of the nations that have spoken on the RMB are natives. At the best, the Founder's apparent lack of action is the wisdom of patience and simply waiting for these specially-challenged individuals to become bored and move on before spending a few minutes to clean the mess. In the medium, the Founder has an accord with the 'raiders' and their occupation is consensual, hence why the Founder has both endorsed the 'raiders' and not ejected them. At the worst, the Founder is indeed indifferent as there has been no lasting complaints from the natives made to the Founder and the 'raiders' remain specially-challenged individuals by virtue of attempting to take over a Region that has an active Founder that can eject them regardless of Delegate status with the flick of a finger when finally annoyed enough."

"Unless the Founder ceases to exist and leaves the Region founderless, there is no need to liberate. As the Founder is still active, the Region is much safer in its current state than it would be if the Security Council interfered."

[Absolutus]

"The Council of Absolutus sees no need to liberate this region, if the population of said region feels no need to defend itself and supports the new group in charge we see no reason to force them to open their borders or do anything else for that matter, against." - Workers Council of Absolutus