[DEFEATED] Repeal SC#52 "Condemn The Black Hawks"

[Tinhampton]

Still think this is gonna pass?

Yes: I do not file any proposal for the attention of WA Delegates if I do not have at least some confidence that it can be a successful resolution.

If there are no more criticisms/comments beyond "This looks neat" or "No support", then this will be filed around 1700 BST on Saint Ursula's Day.

[Lord Dominator]

I've previously detailed my reasons for non-support, but the big one in general is that very few people would be able to write a replacement (given the existing standard that TBH deserves two), and fewer still would be allowed to (given the standards against self-C&Cs).

[Tinhampton]

I've previously detailed my reasons for non-support, but the big one in general is that very few people would be able to write a replacement (given the existing standard that TBH deserves two), and fewer still would be allowed to (given the standards against self-C&Cs).

Do The Black Hawks deserve two Condemnations? I can't possibly say - although I have always supported SC#217 - but I can't think of very many people who deserve a poorly-written badge.

Is SC#52 a symbolic/at-large Condemnation of raiding? Only inasmuch as it was so terribly phrased that the terms it uses to describe TBH in its first three clauses could be applied to any other invasion group, see CONCERNED.

[Lord Dominator]

I've previously detailed my reasons for non-support, but the big one in general is that very few people would be able to write a replacement (given the existing standard that TBH deserves two), and fewer still would be allowed to (given the standards against self-C&Cs).

Do The Black Hawks deserve two Condemnations? I can't possibly say - although I have always supported SC#217 - but I can't think of very many people who deserve a poorly-written badge.

Is SC#52 a symbolic/at-large Condemnation of raiding? Only inasmuch as it was so terribly phrased that the terms it uses to describe TBH in its first three clauses could be applied to any other invasion group, see CONCERNED.

The second bit is irrelevant to my point, and the first misses my point.

[Tinhampton]

The second bit is irrelevant to my point

I'll throw my hands up and admit that such was the case!

the first misses my point

Your point being that The Black Hawks should have two Condemnations at the present date, unless otherwise stated? My concern is about the quality of the resolutions passed, not their quantity, and it is evident that SC#52 - were it to be voted on in 2019, rather than in 2011 - would be deemed of such a poor standard by many voters that it would likely be defeated. Anything of such low quality should have long been repealed, had it not been for the historical value that many have perceived (see FAQ#1 and FAQ#3).
Your point being that SC#52 should be replaced, if needs must? I would not generally be opposed to a replacement unless the writing was absolutely terrible. I remain convinced, however, that simply awarding Condemnations for tag raids that happened almost a decade ago (as opposed to bona fide regional invasions, which deserve to be called out) further devalues the common "shock value" of the badge.

[Lord Dominator]

That would be about right yes - community agreement seems to have been that TBH deserves 2 & I don't think anyone is capable of writing the replacement, at least not without tripping over a self-condemnation line.

Obviously you disagree or don't care about the latter point, so whetevs.

[Tinhampton]

Any further complaints, quibbles or congratulations ought to be made in the next 21 hours - i.e. before this is submitted at 1700 BST tomorrow.

[Refuge Isle]

I don't think it'll make it through, but I respect your right to pose the question. So I'll approve this if I see it.

[Wabbitslayah]

What's with people always trying to remove these things? Against.

[Concrete Slab]

Submitted

[Tinhampton]

Submitted

Or, as I like to put it, Proposal-A-Go-Go.

---

What's with people always trying to remove these things? Against.

One attempted repeal successfully reaching the voting floor in my 3¼ years on NationStates (plus about five other forum drafts of variable quality in that time frame) is not "always."

[Lord Dominator]

Submitted

Or, as I like to put it, Proposal-A-Go-Go.

---

What's with people always trying to remove these things? Against.

One attempted repeal successfully reaching the voting floor in my 3¼ years on NationStates (plus about five other forum drafts of variable quality in that time frame) is not "always."

Nah, this just has something that attracts people to repealing it every so often (this being the third attempt likely to make vote, not counting the numerous ones that haven't).

Edit: By which I mean it looks like there has been at least 10 repeal attempts on the first in the just under 8 years since passage.

[WayNeacTia]

The level of failure about to be experienced here, should this get to vote, is going to numb the mind.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

If we consider two purported "facts:"

1) SC#52 is "irrelevant" to TBH either because it applied to all raiding at the time or contains "inaccuracies"

but

2) TBH of the pre-2011 era still deserves a separate condemnation, given SC#217 only covers post-2011

...then surely, we can conclude that this situation allows for a unique "replace then repeal" process where duplication can be avoided as per the nature of 1). It would be new. Stunning. Revolutionary. Groundbreaking. Unlikely to be seen again. The real Slim Shady. It's what a pro gamer would do.

...and then we sink the repeal step, and keep all 3. Mwahahaha!

[Concrete Slab]

I don't really understand why everyone is against this. I am in total agreement that the Black Hawks deserve two condemnations. However, SC #52 is extremely generalized, badly written, and is centered around a joke self-commendation. It definitely deserves a repeal.

[Concrete Slab]

The proposal has reached quorum.

[Tinhampton]

This one is AT VOTE between major update today (i.e. a few seconds ago) and major update on Thursday 31st October - despite what looked like an unapproval telegram campaign having claimed about half a dozen scalps in the past twelve hours. Sorry for the Blexit uncertainty

AS OF 0459 BST ON SUNDAY: Approvals: 66 out of 65 needed (German Federal Reich, Kuriko, Almerdonia, Refuge Isle, Austronta, Amblibahdesh, Armaidium, Integralists Of Brazil, I chose the first option, Libernato, Kreto, Jimmy bob909, Ransium, Western The Fox, SFR Philippines, Berlania, Ywisha, The Emerald Union, Volykos, Scardinius, United Massachusetts, Takaar, The North Crystal, Sorentia, The United North Nethe, The Tomerlands, South Krimelski, Candensia, Wesleyisbestnationhere, Hoshido and Nohr, Welon Isle, Holleynaga, The Federal Government of Iowa, Gregouria, Vrolondia, Zeatiserland, United Lammunist Republic, Greater Moskva, Zombiedolphins, Greica, Wagoll, Ossulus, Jambudveep, Malvator, Foreignaid, Chargren, Yeetbecistaniana, FNAFia, Philip of Burgundy, Karteria, The Empire of Balestria, United Dependencies, Suvmia, Toopaka, Rockiberg, Nazbeth, Johanneslanden, Hemuraile, Bietzopolis, Greater Serbian Provinces, Eheleana, Carstantinopipal, Balvics, West Intermarium, United Island States of Southeast Asia, Aumeltopia)

[Cela]

The Celan people have voted to go against this resolution. Well at least I think they did. When the news reported the contents of the resolution, it triggered a widespread laughing epidemic. 3 people died. Their blood is on your hands.

- Ambassador Remming

[Khomney]

"GUUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" - Johan Best

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

[Marxist Germany]

(Image)

OOC: 10/10

[De-Voss]

Why even bother with this proposal? The Black Hawks are proud of their raider status. We've condemned them already. Further debate and discussion of their condemnation will only serve to fluff up their egos, and as such surely the best course of action is to simply ignore them.

[United Calanworie]

I'm confused as to what is supposed to be achieved here, there was never any way that this would pass.

[Borovan entered the region as he]

I'm confused as to what is supposed to be achieved here, there was never any way that this would pass.

Yeah I'm reading both the target resolution and the repeal, while having two resolutions is one two many and the older one looks off, the old one conveys the attitudes and sentiments of towards tbh or raiding and its status.

[WayNeacTia]

Wow it failed! Who could have possibly seen this one coming?