[DRAFT] Repeal "Liberate St Abbaddon"

[Topid]

St Abbaddon now has a password and is now permanently closed. Unlike last time when our former delegate gave out the password too often, the region is going to remain secure. Partly because I'm more gameplay savvy than the former delegate, but mostly because no one outside of NationStates Moderation knows what the password is and I'm okay with it staying that way. In recognition of these events:

Repeal "Liberate St Abbaddon"
A resolution to repeal previously passed legislation.
Category: Repeal | Resolution: SC # 189 | Proposed by: Topid

The Security Council,

Knowing the region of St Abbaddon was occupied in 2015 by a predatory military organization, and all nations in the region were ejected in a refound attempt,

Noting that refound attempt failed due to the World Assembly Security Council's quick action to hinder the occupying force,

Observing the region is now controlled by natives free from all invaders,

Celebrating the survival and subsequent securing of St Abbaddon as a victory for the World Assembly and NationStates as a whole,

Recognizing the region of St Abbaddon is now permanently closed with the password hidden and unknown to any member,

Believing regions with passwords should not be allowed to maintain the mark of significance created by a Security Council Liberation,

Hereby repeals Liberate of St Abbaddon.

This post is going to double as my "goodbye" thread.

I've not had any of the time I hoped I would have to run St Abby. As I've said before, I graduated with a masters degree and started my career in December. I thought once I got outside of tax season I'd have a couple hours of free time every night, but alas I'm having to come to terms with the fact NationStates just isn't going to fit into my adult life. I'm really sad about this, I've cared a whole lot about this site and many of the people on it. This site got me through some tough times, especially back in the old United Defenders League days.

I wish I had time to keep doing this, because NationStates is the coolest site in the world. But alas I am not capable of doing this in moderation, never have been, its either play hours a day or barely keep my nations from ceasing to exist. And for my real-life's sake, I need to choose the latter. If you see me posting as one of my identities around the multiverse after midnight or between 8-5 USA time on a weekday/night, bring the smackdown to me and remind me of this post.

Keep on keeping on everyone, I hope I get an opportunity to see you all again.

Topes

[We Are Not the NSA]

That's a shitty pun in the first clause, but I support.

EDIT: Didn't see the retirement part until now. It's sad to see you go Topid. But RL calls I guess, can't blame you for moving on. Also, belated congrats on getting your degree.

[Cormactopia II]

I'm not sure how I feel about this proposal, and it has nothing to do with any remaining hostility to St Abbaddon.

For starters, the region was password-protected by its current Founder, Meteora Amore, a puppet of moderator Luna Amore. Is Luna planning to step down as Founder by either ceasing to exist or the Founder being removed? And even if so, don't liberation resolutions only apply to Delegate-imposed passwords? So wouldn't the password stay in place even with the liberation resolution still in effect?

While you are indeed more gameplay savvy than the former Delegate, I think you're missing some possible scenarios here. No, nobody will be giving out the password. But what if there are already raider sleepers in St Abbaddon? They could WA up later and take the Delegacy that way, and I doubt Moderation is going to give out the password to defenders to liberate the region either, since that would be a massive gameplay bias. Raiders could stick around long enough to take down the Founder-imposed password, and once it's removed they could then impose their own password if the liberation is removed.

I'm not at all sure it's in St Abbaddon's best interests to repeal the liberation resolution.

In regard to your retirement, while we haven't always agreed on everything and have butted heads at times, I'm glad to have known you in this game and you've certainly shown dedication to the safety of the regions you've put your heart into, especially St Abbaddon. You've also had a definite impact on the Security Council. You'll be missed.

[Topid]

Glad to have known you too Cormac.

Yes, the Liberation does not apply to the founder imposed password. Not sure if it would continue to apply if he did remove his nation as founder. I think the Lib would override the password then, in which case I'll never ask for the founder to be deleted and he can just let it CTE or whatever he wishes.

There will be no sleepers in St Abbaddon soon. This is really and truly the end of the St Abbaddon saga, I know how to wrap this up.

EDIT: Thanks NSA, also re: shitty puns in proposals, I try. XD

[Cormactopia II]

There will be no sleepers in St Abbaddon soon. This is really and truly the end of the St Abbaddon saga, I know how to wrap this up.

Ah, I see. That was a much needed clarification.

Full support for this proposal, then, if this is what you really want and believe is best as the last remaining pre-DEN raid native of St Abbaddon.

[Topid]

Aye, the only scenario I'd be somewhat concerned to see is a Hawkswind return to NS with a locked down region. But I doubt very much he'll be back.

[Luna Amore]

The password only works as long as the founder exists. If I clear the founder field, the game defaults to treating it as a delegate imposed password.

If St Abbaddon wants to return to a truly founderless state with a password, the Liberation would need to be repealed.

[Cormactopia II]

The password only works as long as the founder exists. If I clear the founder field, the game defaults to treating it as a delegate imposed password.

If St Abbaddon wants to return to a truly founderless state with a password, the Liberation would need to be repealed.

Thanks for that information, I wasn't entirely sure how that worked -- after more than four years playing. I guess you do learn something new every day.

In any event, given this is the case then I definitely think the repeal should pass.

[Adytus]

Believing regions with passwords should not be allowed to maintain the mark of significance created by a Security Council Liberation,

Ambassador Mike Lynn walks in,

IC: I support this proposal. However, I think this sentence needs to be more particular. I am afraid it narrows the scope of the council as it stands now. The mark of significance created by a liberation can have different symbolic meanings as it relates to each resolution. While you believe it does not deserve to maintain the mark of significance created by a liberation, in the future, other regions may have their liberations recognized with greater meaning than just the removal or placement of a password. This allows authors to imply symbolic meanings behind their liberations, and I do not see a reason why this council should not be allowed to do that. Perhaps you could change it to this:

Believing St Abbaddon, which has a founder-imposed password, no longer needs to maintain the mark of significance created by a Security Council Liberation,

This is just a suggestion. I will support the proposal, regardless. Thank you for your time, Topid.

[Evil Wolf]

Didn't we go through this same act years ago with the last "Repeal 'Liberate St Abbaddon'"? How many times are we going to Liberate and Repeal over and over and over again?

Also that founder is entirely temporary and isn't suppose to be long term. In fact I'm a little confused as to why a Mod remains the temp founder, since DEN has been completely destroyed and the region is unquestionably liberated.

[Topid]

The last Liberate St Abbaddon was done by raiders, against native wishes. So if your question is how many times will raiders propose a Liberation of St Abby, I suppose you'd be in a better position to answer that than me.

I am not really one to answer about the intents of the current founder, but I am not under the impression the founder will be going away before the region is secure.

EDIT: re:Adytus, I'll look at that line a bit. I'm not sure calling it a founder imposed password is a good idea, it is a really odd situation.

[Evil Wolf]

I am not really one to answer about the intents of the current founder, but I am not under the impression the founder will be going away before the region is secure.

So basically the founder will remain until this repeal is passed? That's completely ridiculous, and potentially even favoritism.

How many other regions are getting an Admin-appointed temporary founder until their region can be made all safe and secure? Just St Abbaddon.

[Topid]

Just FYI to everyone else out there: I didn't really anticipate quickly requesting the founder drop after the repeal either. Still a lot of nations in the region.

I don't see it as biased to be interested in preventing a DEN revenge raid. As far as I know, our region is the only one they spent several months (a significant portion of the average gameplay career) building influence in only to lose it all in a day. If a DEN successor were able to retake St Abby soon, it would feel to me like DEN saved face a bit in the whole Predator thing, or like they got the last word.

Our region was totally drained and destroyed by DEN, I for one hope the mods keep the founder alive long enough to wrap up St Abby without any risk.

[Evil Wolf]

I don't see it as biased to be interested in preventing a DEN revenge raid. As far as I know, our region is the only one they spent several months (a significant portion of the average gameplay career) building influence in only to lose it all in a day. If a DEN successor were able to retake St Abby soon, it would feel to me like DEN saved face a bit in the whole Predator thing, or like they got the last word.

Our region was totally drained and destroyed by DEN, I for one hope the mods keep the founder alive long enough to wrap up St Abby without any risk.

DEN is permanently dead and any successor regions are banned.

As for "DEN revenge raid" that's some pretty silly logic. Raiders are going to target St Abbaddon because it's old, founderless, and a defender region, not as some kooky way to avenge DEN. This doesn't sound like a legitimate reason, this sounds like an excuse to extend the generous and extraordinary benefits that have already been bestowed upon St Abbaddon.

Topid, you have 78 endorsements and peaked at 108 endorsements on 14APR16, while the next highest nation has 10 endorsements. The region is already more than secure and no longer requires special Admin/Mod protection. This seems like the region is taking advantage of the situation.

[General Knot]

This doesn't sound like a legitimate reason, this sounds like an excuse to extend the generous and extraordinary benefits that have already been bestowed upon St Abbaddon.

Such is life.

[Evil Wolf]

This doesn't sound like a legitimate reason, this sounds like an excuse to extend the generous and extraordinary benefits that have already been bestowed upon St Abbaddon.

Such is life.

Which isn't a good reason not to talk about it, especially when it's being used as a crutch to achieve a goal.

[General Knot]

Such is life.

Which isn't a good reason not to talk about it, especially when it's being used as a crutch to achieve a goal.

Aye, I'd be the person to speak against it the most.

[Evil Wolf]

Aye, I'd be the person to speak against it the most.

Well that's all rather cryptic and vague. Is there something you'd like to address specifically and in length?

[Topid]

What matters isn't the endorsement gap when we start emptying the region, but rather how many raider sleepers are in the region. We know the answer is a lot, but hard to tell just how many have highish influence.(not in comparison to me one on one, but the group as a whole).

I am not good at influence math, and have been surprised at what the controls page has said I have enough influence to do even just as an RO though, so perhaps my concerns are misguided and you are correct in implying the situation is already over. I hope we don't have to find out, though.

Which isn't a good reason not to talk about it, especially when it's being used as a crutch to achieve a goal.

Aye, I'd be the person to speak against it the most.

Why you the most? Is St Abbaddon even older for you than for EW or is there some other aspect at play here that applies to you to a greater extent than anyone else?

[General Knot]

Aye, I'd be the person to speak against it the most.

Well that's all rather cryptic and vague. Is there something you'd like to address specifically and in length?

The reason being that I was the one invested in the 175+ endorsement occupation that came milliseconds close to refounding this historical region on two occasions. Defenders had standing orders for over two months to watch St Abbaddon every update. And no, not particularly. You've summed it up quite well and your opinion is worth much more than mine.

[Tim-Opolis]

Full support for the resolution, best of luck with the clean-up and sealing-up of St Abbaddon, Topid.

[RiderSyl]

The reason being that I was the one invested in the 175+ endorsement occupation that came milliseconds close to refounding this historical region on two occasions.

Was that investment before or after your former organization started cheating?

[General Knot]

The reason being that I was the one invested in the 175+ endorsement occupation that came milliseconds close to refounding this historical region on two occasions.

Was that investment before or after your former organization started cheating?

Your organization began the cheating. Why beat the dead horse?

Again, all of DEN's occupations, including St Abbaddon, were executed without script usage. I don't need scripts to be competent.

[RiderSyl]

Your organization began the cheating.

Osiris didn't begin squat.

In seriousness, TBR and the "new DEN" were the same organization, just minus the in-game presence of Halcones. So I don't get what your comeback is supposed to mean.

Why beat the dead horse?

You're disallowed from accusing others of dead horse beating until you change your forum signature.

Again, all of DEN's occupations, including St Abbaddon, were executed without script usage.

[Herby]

Again, all of DEN's occupations, including St Abbaddon, were executed without script usage. I don't need scripts to be competent.

Yeah that explains all the DEATs and DOSes and WA bans and DEN regions deleted, don't it? Come on man you ain't foolin' nobody.