NATION

PASSWORD

Liberate Haven

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

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Willman
Envoy
 
Posts: 349
Founded: Jul 20, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Willman » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:30 pm

A mean old man wrote:Ah, but Kalibarr - the defenders didn't actually tell the truth about it in their threads. That's the key to sneaking an agenda into a WA proposal.

Anyway, for reasons blatantly obvious, I cannot support this proposal. I do find it interesting how the invaders' side of the WA has shown us how liberations could potentially be used for their purposes as well as the purposes of defenders, though. A few well placed sleepers and anonymous puppets and the invaders could do just what the defenders have done.

This just serves as a reminder that we must all, despite our loyalties or ideologies, must be wary of the possible intent behind WA resolutions and not allow them to be used for purposes that we are not aware of. WASC resolutions, particularly liberations, must be well justified and supported by as many natives of the regions targeted as possible. When liberations start digging into the interests of private organizations or individuals, we begin to travel down a slippery slope carved out by greed and insensitivity.

So remember this, raiders, defenders, and neutral nations of the world. Anyone can sneak an agenda behind a WA resolution, whether it be raiders attempting to make a region vulnerable to attack, or defenders trying to make themselves look like heroes or trying to undermine individual invader organizations. Let us always remain vigilant and heavily question the intent behind a resolution and the evidence provided for said resolution before we accept the resolution as actually meaning to do exactly what it says it wishes to in its writing and nothing more (in a secret, sneaky sense).

Don't know how sneaky something is when a Nazi tries to liberate the land of the libertad, but otherwise I agree with you completely.
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Topid
Minister
 
Posts: 2843
Founded: Dec 29, 2008
Capitalizt

Postby Topid » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:34 pm

Kalibarr wrote:When it was clear defenders were using it for their own gain the proposals still passed, I would not be so confident if I were you.

Which liberation are you referencing here?
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Sarzonia
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Founded: Mar 22, 2004
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Sarzonia » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:35 pm

This isn't even worth RPing.

I'm a former Havenite and count several friends among the nations in Haven. It looks suspiciously to me like Oh my Days is flat-out lying to get Haven's password forcibly removed.

Utter bullshit. This resolution should die a quick death.
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Derscon
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Ex-Nation

Postby Derscon » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:38 pm

Sarzonia wrote:This isn't even worth RPing.

I'm a former Havenite and count several friends among the nations in Haven. It looks suspiciously to me like Oh my Days is flat-out lying to get Haven's password forcibly removed.

Utter bullshit. This resolution should die a quick death.


I saw this shit coming a mile away when the liberation function was introduced. This time, it's crushed because it's Haven, a generally respected RPing region. What happens when it's not so well-known RP region, but just as bullshit response? The password on a region removed from the gameplay aspect of the game is now forced into mingling with invader/defenders. Normally, that's called rape. :/
NationStates remains an excellent educational tool for children. It can teach you exactly just how far people will go to gain extrajudicially what they could never gain legitimately. ~ Questers
And congratulations to Derscon, who has finally codified the exact basis on which NS issues work. ~ Ardchoille

瞞天過海

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Scandavian States
Diplomat
 
Posts: 889
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Scandavian States » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:44 pm

Sarzonia wrote:This isn't even worth RPing.


[OOC]
I disagree. It's been a LONG time since anybody was stupid enough to piss off Haven as a whole. It would be mildly amusing to depopulate 50 regions to such an extent that a Haven Expeditionary Army could occupy and pacify them all with ease. You were old school Haven, you were around when our present policy was in its formative stages, so you know what happens when a nation or region crosses us. Most everybody else has forgotten or failed to pay attention to the lessons of Mediterranica or the Four Day War. I'm starting to think that with all the condemnation resolutions aimed at Haven nations and now this, a rather massive example is very much in order.
[/OOC]

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Bavin
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5305
Founded: May 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Bavin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:52 pm

Derscon wrote:
Sarzonia wrote:This isn't even worth RPing.

I'm a former Havenite and count several friends among the nations in Haven. It looks suspiciously to me like Oh my Days is flat-out lying to get Haven's password forcibly removed.

Utter bullshit. This resolution should die a quick death.


I saw this shit coming a mile away when the liberation function was introduced. This time, it's crushed because it's Haven, a generally respected RPing region. What happens when it's not so well-known RP region, but just as bullshit response? The password on a region removed from the gameplay aspect of the game is now forced into mingling with invader/defenders. Normally, that's called rape. :/

Exactly, I came to Haven to avoid the region invader/defender bullshit, which is probably one reason why there is a password, because no-one in Haven gives two shits about region-side gameplay, and we don't want to be bothered. Which is why the password needs to stay.

That and the n00bs.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.- Carl Sagan

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Scandavian States
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Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

split from Silly SC proposals - post them here!

Postby Scandavian States » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:53 pm

Willman wrote:Just epic lulz


I agree. And epic stupidity on their part. I'm praying that this passes, because when it does the body count is going to hit hundreds of gigadeaths in short order and then it'll be REALLY funny. Well, to Haven at least, I'm sure the rest of NS is going to be staring in shock and horror when they see just how Haven does war.

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Scandavian States
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Ex-Nation

Postby Scandavian States » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:56 pm

Bavin wrote:Exactly, I came to Haven to avoid the region invader/defender bullshit, which is probably one reason why there is a password, because no-one in Haven gives two shits about region-side gameplay, and we don't want to be bothered. Which is why the password needs to stay.

That and the n00bs.


I agree. But, if it passes, nobody is going to even think about trying this BS again after the massive fallout clears and oceans of blood dry up.

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Derscon
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Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Derscon » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:58 pm

Scandavian States wrote:
Bavin wrote:Exactly, I came to Haven to avoid the region invader/defender bullshit, which is probably one reason why there is a password, because no-one in Haven gives two shits about region-side gameplay, and we don't want to be bothered. Which is why the password needs to stay.

That and the n00bs.


I agree. But, if it passes, nobody is going to even think about trying this BS again after the massive fallout clears and oceans of blood dry up.


Except...no. Those are two different games. Invader/defenders don't give a shit about the forums, and you won't have time to give a shit about it when Haven is taken over by invaders. Two different games.
NationStates remains an excellent educational tool for children. It can teach you exactly just how far people will go to gain extrajudicially what they could never gain legitimately. ~ Questers
And congratulations to Derscon, who has finally codified the exact basis on which NS issues work. ~ Ardchoille

瞞天過海

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Kalibarr
Minister
 
Posts: 2241
Founded: Sep 05, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Kalibarr » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:58 pm

Scandavian States wrote:
Sarzonia wrote:This isn't even worth RPing.


[OOC]
I disagree. It's been a LONG time since anybody was stupid enough to piss off Haven as a whole. It would be mildly amusing to depopulate 50 regions to such an extent that a Haven Expeditionary Army could occupy and pacify them all with ease. You were old school Haven, you were around when our present policy was in its formative stages, so you know what happens when a nation or region crosses us. Most everybody else has forgotten or failed to pay attention to the lessons of Mediterranica or the Four Day War. I'm starting to think that with all the condemnation resolutions aimed at Haven nations and now this, a rather massive example is very much in order.
[/OOC]


oh I'm scared now...

what you gonna attack my nation or something? well if you haven't noticed that function is not available in this game. Glad it isn't for I don't play to fight on that level. May I recommend to all of you making threats, and doing it while you hide behind your little password go play cybernations where such things as petty violence is tolerated and actually playable.

@Topid

your joking right?

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Kalibarr
Minister
 
Posts: 2241
Founded: Sep 05, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Kalibarr » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:00 pm

I don't anger easily

when I do, those who get in my way regret it

you guys are really pushing it

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Automagfreek
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Posts: 1098
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Automagfreek » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:01 pm

"As one of many representatives from almighty Gholgoth, I do hereby condemn this thinly veiled attempt at imperialism. Due to the fact that Haven is a regional neighbor of Gholgoth, we have a vested interest in seeing this resolution fail, but should it pass we have no doubt that the Havenites would utterly crush any and all invading infidels. However, once the traveling troupe of disorganized rabble are defeated they may look to nearby lands to try their luck, and as a result Gholgoth would face a sharp increase in the number of jaywalkers, panhandlers, street vendors, and gypsy scum polluting our territory. This must not come to pass."

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Animarnia
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Founded: Jun 10, 2005
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Animarnia » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:06 pm

Not a Havenite, never have been though I count several of them as people I would call friends, the whole liberate thing is bullshit. Haven is an RP region, not a Raider Region, they are almost two seperate games really, deliberately removing a region password for the sole purpose of"raiding" that region that isn't even part of your 'game' in inherently unfair by and large region passwords are the only defence Rp regions have against Raiders from Raping us.
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Scandavian States
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Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Scandavian States » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:06 pm

Kalibarr wrote:oh I'm scared now...

what you gonna attack my nation or something? well if you haven't noticed that function is not available in this game. Glad it isn't for I don't play to fight on that level. May I recommend to all of you making threats, and doing it while you hide behind your little password go play cybernations where such things as petty violence is tolerated and actually playable.


It's called RP, fool. If you want to pull this BS against an RP region, be prepared to RP the consequences. Otherwise, GTFO with this crap.

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Bavin
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5305
Founded: May 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Bavin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:07 pm

Scandavian States wrote:
Kalibarr wrote:oh I'm scared now...

what you gonna attack my nation or something? well if you haven't noticed that function is not available in this game. Glad it isn't for I don't play to fight on that level. May I recommend to all of you making threats, and doing it while you hide behind your little password go play cybernations where such things as petty violence is tolerated and actually playable.


It's called RP, fool. If you want to pull this BS against an RP region, be prepared to RP the consequences. Otherwise, GTFO with this crap.

Indeed. We have no interest in your juvinile griefing. Haven is a region for RP, and that's all we want to do here, not play WA wank with a coupla punks.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.- Carl Sagan

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Bavin
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5305
Founded: May 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Bavin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:11 pm

Kalibarr wrote:I don't anger easily

when I do, those who get in my way regret it

you guys are really pushing it

They're the ones that decided to pick a fight with the most respected RPing region in NS.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.- Carl Sagan

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Kalibarr
Minister
 
Posts: 2241
Founded: Sep 05, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Kalibarr » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:11 pm

Bavin wrote:
Scandavian States wrote:
Kalibarr wrote:oh I'm scared now...

what you gonna attack my nation or something? well if you haven't noticed that function is not available in this game. Glad it isn't for I don't play to fight on that level. May I recommend to all of you making threats, and doing it while you hide behind your little password go play cybernations where such things as petty violence is tolerated and actually playable.


It's called RP, fool. If you want to pull this BS against an RP region, be prepared to RP the consequences. Otherwise, GTFO with this crap.

Indeed. We have no interest in your juvinile griefing. Haven is a region for RP, and that's all we want to do here, not play WA wank with a coupla punks.


I'm a Raider, not a griefer.

You'll find regions like your are regions that get raided when they begin to decay. I wonder why...

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Bavin
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Posts: 5305
Founded: May 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Bavin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:12 pm

Kalibarr wrote:
Bavin wrote:
Scandavian States wrote:
Kalibarr wrote:oh I'm scared now...

what you gonna attack my nation or something? well if you haven't noticed that function is not available in this game. Glad it isn't for I don't play to fight on that level. May I recommend to all of you making threats, and doing it while you hide behind your little password go play cybernations where such things as petty violence is tolerated and actually playable.


It's called RP, fool. If you want to pull this BS against an RP region, be prepared to RP the consequences. Otherwise, GTFO with this crap.

Indeed. We have no interest in your juvinile griefing. Haven is a region for RP, and that's all we want to do here, not play WA wank with a coupla punks.


I'm a Raider, not a griefer.

You'll find regions like your are regions that get raided when they begin to decay. I wonder why...

Raider, griefer. Either way, we don't wanna play, go away. And how is Haven decaying?
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.- Carl Sagan

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Kalibarr
Minister
 
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Founded: Sep 05, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Kalibarr » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:13 pm

Neither of you will fight on each others turf, they won't RP with you, you won't R/D with them. I am only defending those who have earned my trust. For when you give in to someone because of their reputation, it is giving to to bullying. I will not be pushed around.

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Scandavian States
Diplomat
 
Posts: 889
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Scandavian States » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:13 pm

Kalibarr wrote:I don't anger easily

when I do, those who get in my way regret it

you guys are really pushing it



Bring it. You don't have the support to get this resolution to pass and you're too chickenshit to RP this out because you KNOW we'll rape you and dispose of you after we've had our kicks. But, hey, if I'm wrong and you do have the cajones to play on our field, we're your huckleberry.

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Kalibarr
Minister
 
Posts: 2241
Founded: Sep 05, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Kalibarr » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:14 pm

Bavin wrote:
Kalibarr wrote:
Bavin wrote:
Scandavian States wrote:
Kalibarr wrote:oh I'm scared now...

what you gonna attack my nation or something? well if you haven't noticed that function is not available in this game. Glad it isn't for I don't play to fight on that level. May I recommend to all of you making threats, and doing it while you hide behind your little password go play cybernations where such things as petty violence is tolerated and actually playable.


It's called RP, fool. If you want to pull this BS against an RP region, be prepared to RP the consequences. Otherwise, GTFO with this crap.

Indeed. We have no interest in your juvinile griefing. Haven is a region for RP, and that's all we want to do here, not play WA wank with a coupla punks.


I'm a Raider, not a griefer.

You'll find regions like your are regions that get raided when they begin to decay. I wonder why...

Raider, griefer. Either way, we don't wanna play, go away. And how is Haven decaying?


Every region decays at some point. Even if it is in ten years, it won't last forever, no where does.

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Kalibarr
Minister
 
Posts: 2241
Founded: Sep 05, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Kalibarr » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:15 pm

Scandavian States wrote:
Kalibarr wrote:I don't anger easily

when I do, those who get in my way regret it

you guys are really pushing it



Bring it. You don't have the support to get this resolution to pass and you're too chickenshit to RP this out because you KNOW we'll rape you and dispose of you after we've had our kicks. But, hey, if I'm wrong and you do have the cajones to play on our field, we're your huckleberry.


Well, I'm not the one hiding behind a password so, be careful who you say has no "cajones"

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Bavin
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5305
Founded: May 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Bavin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:15 pm

Kalibarr wrote:Neither of you will fight on each others turf, they won't RP with you, you won't R/D with them. I am only defending those who have earned my trust. For when you give in to someone because of their reputation, it is giving to to bullying. I will not be pushed around.

Then why can't we ignore each other and be done with it? I know that's what we Havenite's want.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.- Carl Sagan

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Third Spanish States
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Posts: 1454
Founded: Oct 09, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Third Spanish States » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:19 pm

Kalibarr wrote:I'm a Raider, not a griefer.

You'll find regions like your are regions that get raided when they begin to decay. I wonder why...


You're behaving like a stereotypical caricature of how RPers see those who participate of the I/D game, and demonstrating the reason why there is a stigma and segregation between the gameplayers and RPers in NS that goes up to the OOC level of intolerance between them. Unfortunately people like you have pretty much caused such segregation in NationStates forums and created the stereotype that anyone who participates of the I/D gameplay is a stupid jerk trying too hard to play the "bad guy" and failing at it.
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Scandavian States
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Posts: 889
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Scandavian States » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:19 pm

Kalibarr wrote:You'll find regions like your are regions that get raided when they begin to decay. I wonder why...


You really have no conception of what Haven actually IS, do you? Let me enlighten you. Haven has been around since 2003, has always been an RP region and always been password protected, has hit low points of 15 nations and high points of 90, and has most emphatically dealt with your kind before. Our region is dynamic and thriving, whether you think so or not. And, to be honest, your entire body doesn't have the weight of our left nut. So don't sling shit and don't threaten us, because I guaran-freaking-tee you would be shocked and surprised at what we can do in any gameplay facet if you really want to push your luck.

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