Liberate Haven

[Anemos Major]

I have no side on the proposal, I am defending Oh my Days who you have threatened RP wise and I am defending raider in general who you guys seem to be attacking.

Actually, you'll find that it's actually the raiders who are 'attacking'.

[Kalibarr]

I have no side on the proposal, I am defending Oh my Days who you have threatened RP wise and I am defending raider in general who you guys seem to be attacking.

Actually, you'll find that it's actually the raiders who are 'attacking'.

how, you have a password and Oh My Days has held off from extreme verbal attack, I also don't believe they are RPing with you?

[Bavin]

I have no side on the proposal, I am defending Oh my Days who you have threatened RP wise and I am defending raider in general who you guys seem to be attacking.

Actually, you'll find that it's actually the raiders who are 'attacking'.

how, you have a password and Oh My Days has held off from extreme verbal attack, I also don't believe they are RPing with you?

Oh My Days started this by attempting to open Haven's doors to an attack of annoyance.

As wide as Preston's legs- in joke for #d

[Anemos Major]

I have no side on the proposal, I am defending Oh my Days who you have threatened RP wise and I am defending raider in general who you guys seem to be attacking.

Actually, you'll find that it's actually the raiders who are 'attacking'.

how, you have a password and Oh My Days has held off from extreme verbal attack, I also don't believe they are RPing with you?

What? We have a password because we want to keep people like Oh My Days away... besides, you'll find that it's only because of this rather pointless proposal that we're confronting him.

[Kalibarr]

I have no side on the proposal, I am defending Oh my Days who you have threatened RP wise and I am defending raider in general who you guys seem to be attacking.

Actually, you'll find that it's actually the raiders who are 'attacking'.

how, you have a password and Oh My Days has held off from extreme verbal attack, I also don't believe they are RPing with you?

Oh My Days started this by attempting to open Haven's doors to an attack of annoyance.

As wide as Preston's legs- in joke for #d

So a liberation is an attack?

As wide as Preston's legs- in joke for #d[

[Bavin]

I have no side on the proposal, I am defending Oh my Days who you have threatened RP wise and I am defending raider in general who you guys seem to be attacking.

Actually, you'll find that it's actually the raiders who are 'attacking'.

how, you have a password and Oh My Days has held off from extreme verbal attack, I also don't believe they are RPing with you?

Oh My Days started this by attempting to open Haven's doors to an attack of annoyance.

As wide as Preston's legs- in joke for #d

So a liberation is an attack?

No, but it opens the doors for a raid, which is certainly an attack

As wide as Preston's legs- in joke for #d[

What part of 'in joke' did you not get? Of course, it was off topic, but I couldn't resist.

[Kalibarr]

I have no side on the proposal, I am defending Oh my Days who you have threatened RP wise and I am defending raider in general who you guys seem to be attacking.

Actually, you'll find that it's actually the raiders who are 'attacking'.

how, you have a password and Oh My Days has held off from extreme verbal attack, I also don't believe they are RPing with you?

Oh My Days started this by attempting to open Haven's doors to an attack of annoyance.

As wide as Preston's legs- in joke for #d

So a liberation is an attack?

No, but it opens the doors for a raid, which is certainly an attack

As wide as Preston's legs- in joke for #d[

What part of 'in joke' did you not get? Of course, it was off topic, but I couldn't resist.

But he didn't actually Attack you, so your original claim is false

[Animarnia]

Liberation is an attack, when it attempts to forcably bring people into a part of the game they neither want nor care about purely for the pleasure of the "Liberator"...we call it rape

[Anemos Major]

Kalibarr, if you don't understand this already, you'd better listen up.

A LIBERATION is an action that is meant to countermand the results of a RAID and/or an INVASION. However, in this case, there has been no RAID/INVASION. Therefore, what looks like a LIBERATION has nothing to LIBERATE. Now, the fact that the OP mentioned Haven's password suggests that, therefore, he wants the password removed for some reason or another. Why would he want it removed? Because he wants to RAID Haven.

It's reverse psychology, in layman's terms.

[Bavin]

But he didn't actually Attack you, so your original claim is false

Pardon the over-Middle Ages ness- does opening the doors of a castle while a battle is occurring constitute an attack? Yes, especially if it is deliberate and the people opening the doors are trying to get inside, because it causes damage to the people inside trying to ignore the battle and relying on the password, erm, doors.

Okay, not the best analogy, but you hopefully get the point.

[Kalibarr]

If you say so..

by your own definition Regions the WA has attacked:

The Land of Kings and Emperors
Europiea
The New Inquisition
Unknown
Macedon
Mencer
The Alliance of DIctators
Axis of Evil
New Earth
Nazi Europe
...
Regions it has Directly Attacked:

Free Thought
Utopia
Democratia
Land of The Liberals
Belgium
Feudal Japan


So the WA is supposed to promote peace , solve conflict, prevent genocide

yet it has attacked regions?

this makes no sense, how does it expect people to follow it if it attacks regions it has a disagreement with?

who it's defender manipulators have a problem with?

[Scandavian States]

So a liberation is an attack?

So far as the RP community is concerned? Yes. FYI, Haven is one of the community's most prominent and oldest RP regions. You'll note that when Bavin, an all around good guy but junior member of Haven, raises the issue in Technical, it's Violet that notes this issue is being watched carefully by NS' moderation and administration staff. Now, I don't claim to speak for them, I wouldn't ever dream of doing so, but it says a hell of a lot when the Big Boss comments concerning a complaint about, and possible fixes for, gameplay by a junior member of a region that has never been involved in gameplay.

As wide as Preston's legs- in joke for #d[

Preston is Haven's resident RP bitch. He has historically been set upon with frightening regularity. If you want to see how we do liberations, witness the many such liberations of Preston.

[A mean old man]

I'd rather not get too involved on any side here, as this debate has become an amazing quagmire, however I would like to point out a few technical details:

As the members of Haven themselves have pointed out, R/D and RP are entirely different things. They don't mix unless they are forced to mix (which usually results in RP being screwed up). Initiating an RP'ed war based on something that happens in the SC, the gameplay-oriented area of the World Assembly, usually doesn't work. Also, if the region Haven is attempting to "attack" Nazi Europe via RP and Nazi Europe does not accept this attack, then Haven technically cannot attack Nazi Europe.

There are also few things more incredibly annoying than seeing an RP'ed war on an RMB, especially when said RP'ed war is not accepted by all the nations on either side of the "battle." I've had to deal with that kind of crap before, and I consider it spam (if not worse). If you're going to fight each other via RP, do it on the forums where those who want to be involved will be involved, and where those who want to be left alone may be left alone. Don't spam up other regions' RMBs like AWA did when I was arguing with their currently CTE'd leader in the WASC forums (most of my region didn't know what the fuck was going on and didn't care about it, and AWA should have respected that).

Just my nitpicky technical side coming out. The brawl may continue.

[Anemos Major]

If you say so..

by your own definition Regions the WA has attacked:

The Land of Kings and Emperors
Europiea
The New Inquisition
Unknown
Macedon
Mencer
The Alliance of DIctators
Axis of Evil
New Earth
Nazi Europe
...
Regions it has Directly Attacked:

Free Thought
Utopia
Democratia
Land of The Liberals
Belgium
Feudal Japan


So the WA is supposed to promote peace , solve conflict, prevent genocide

yet it has attacked regions?

this makes no sense, how does it expect people to follow it if it attacks regions it has a disagreement with?

who it's defender manipulators have a problem with?

Nobody follows the WA, mate. Especially not RPers in International Incidents. Your so-called raiders may accuse us RPers of hiding, but in reality, its raiders like them who hide behind the WA.

People don't follow when they see the light. I'd say its high time for you to look up and join the club.

[Kalibarr]

So a liberation is an attack?

So far as the RP community is concerned? Yes. FYI, Haven is one of the community's most prominent and oldest RP regions. You'll note that when Bavin, an all around good guy but junior member of Haven, raises the issue in Technical, it's Violet that notes this issue is being watched carefully by NS' moderation and administration staff. Now, I don't claim to speak for them, I wouldn't ever dream of doing so, but it says a hell of a lot when the Big Boss comments concerning a complaint about, and possible fixes for, gameplay by a junior member of a region that has never been involved in gameplay.

Is that a threat? Going to have the mods deal with me? come on that is pretty low.

[Bavin]

So a liberation is an attack?

So far as the RP community is concerned? Yes. FYI, Haven is one of the community's most prominent and oldest RP regions. You'll note that when Bavin, an all around good guy but junior member of Haven, raises the issue in Technical, it's Violet that notes this issue is being watched carefully by NS' moderation and administration staff. Now, I don't claim to speak for them, I wouldn't ever dream of doing so, but it says a hell of a lot when the Big Boss comments concerning a complaint about, and possible fixes for, gameplay by a junior member of a region that has never been involved in gameplay.

Is that a threat? Going to have the mods deal with me? come on that is pretty low.

With you? No. With this proposal? If they see fit. With the greater problem of "liberating" RP regions, I hope so.

[Kalibarr]

So a liberation is an attack?

So far as the RP community is concerned? Yes. FYI, Haven is one of the community's most prominent and oldest RP regions. You'll note that when Bavin, an all around good guy but junior member of Haven, raises the issue in Technical, it's Violet that notes this issue is being watched carefully by NS' moderation and administration staff. Now, I don't claim to speak for them, I wouldn't ever dream of doing so, but it says a hell of a lot when the Big Boss comments concerning a complaint about, and possible fixes for, gameplay by a junior member of a region that has never been involved in gameplay.

Is that a threat? Going to have the mods deal with me? come on that is pretty low.

With you? No. With this proposal? If they see fit. With the greater problem of "liberating" RP regions, I hope so.

Oh RP regions will be exempt now?

the defenders and the biased neutrals begged and begged for something like a liberation, as far as I'm concerned we all have to deal with the consequences of their actions. Raiders do, why should you be exempt?

[Shansekia]

If you say so..

by your own definition Regions the WA has attacked:

<LONG LIST IS LONG SNIP>

So the WA is supposed to promote peace , solve conflict, prevent genocide

Referring to the WA as a single person is rather dangerous: it's something around ten thousand people with widely varying goals. But anyway:

yet it has attacked regions?

I'll quote Anemos here.

A LIBERATION is an action that is meant to countermand the results of a RAID and/or an INVASION. However, in this case, there has been no RAID/INVASION.

To be quite honest, I pretty much do not follow R/D stuff (though through a bit of stumbling I read up on what happened to Japan), but I believe that the vast majority of those liberations you listed were quite probably meant to help the original inhabitants of the region return.

In the case of Haven, however, I can tell you with near absolute certainty that none of us want "help" - I honestly cannot remember the last time a member was expelled by the delegate using force.

this makes no sense, how does it expect people to follow it if it attacks regions it has a disagreement with?

Because it's ten thousand different people, it can't "expect" anything. The WA isn't a hivemind or something.

who it's defender manipulators have a problem with?

Ah, conspiracies again. Clearly, the "defenders' control the WA and are bent on dominating NS!

[Bavin]

So a liberation is an attack?

So far as the RP community is concerned? Yes. FYI, Haven is one of the community's most prominent and oldest RP regions. You'll note that when Bavin, an all around good guy but junior member of Haven, raises the issue in Technical, it's Violet that notes this issue is being watched carefully by NS' moderation and administration staff. Now, I don't claim to speak for them, I wouldn't ever dream of doing so, but it says a hell of a lot when the Big Boss comments concerning a complaint about, and possible fixes for, gameplay by a junior member of a region that has never been involved in gameplay.

Is that a threat? Going to have the mods deal with me? come on that is pretty low.

With you? No. With this proposal? If they see fit. With the greater problem of "liberating" RP regions, I hope so.

Oh RP regions will be exempt now?

the defenders and the biased neutrals begged and begged for something like a liberation, as far as I'm concerned we all have to deal with the consequences of their actions. Raiders do, why should you be exempt?

Why is "Because we don't care?" not a reason?

[Automagfreek]

Oh RP regions will be exempt now?

the defenders and the biased neutrals begged and begged for something like a liberation, as far as I'm concerned we all have to deal with the consequences of their actions. Raiders do, why should you be exempt?

Because we as RPers frankly don't give a crap about the game mechanics and the whole raiding/defending business.

[Scandavian States]

So a liberation is an attack?

So far as the RP community is concerned? Yes. FYI, Haven is one of the community's most prominent and oldest RP regions. You'll note that when Bavin, an all around good guy but junior member of Haven, raises the issue in Technical, it's Violet that notes this issue is being watched carefully by NS' moderation and administration staff. Now, I don't claim to speak for them, I wouldn't ever dream of doing so, but it says a hell of a lot when the Big Boss comments concerning a complaint about, and possible fixes for, gameplay by a junior member of a region that has never been involved in gameplay.

Is that a threat? Going to have the mods deal with me? come on that is pretty low.

Not at all. If you go into technical you'll see the thread Bavin started. You'll also see that it was Violet who noted that s/he was watching this issue with interest. From the point of view of present NS rules, there's nothing they can do and we both know it. My purpose was simply to point out how amusing it is that for a "decaying" and "small" region, it's the Big Boss who says they're watching the situation when we speak. I can only guess that means they might consider addressing the RP/Gameplay divide by hardcoding it into the game if it becomes necessary.

[Anemos Major]

Look, Kalibarr... it's quite evident you have no idea about what's going on. Why the hell are you here?

[Kalibarr]

So a liberation is an attack?

So far as the RP community is concerned? Yes. FYI, Haven is one of the community's most prominent and oldest RP regions. You'll note that when Bavin, an all around good guy but junior member of Haven, raises the issue in Technical, it's Violet that notes this issue is being watched carefully by NS' moderation and administration staff. Now, I don't claim to speak for them, I wouldn't ever dream of doing so, but it says a hell of a lot when the Big Boss comments concerning a complaint about, and possible fixes for, gameplay by a junior member of a region that has never been involved in gameplay.

Is that a threat? Going to have the mods deal with me? come on that is pretty low.

With you? No. With this proposal? If they see fit. With the greater problem of "liberating" RP regions, I hope so.

Oh RP regions will be exempt now?

the defenders and the biased neutrals begged and begged for something like a liberation, as far as I'm concerned we all have to deal with the consequences of their actions. Raiders do, why should you be exempt?

Why is "Because we don't care?" not a reason?

raiders don't care for liberations ether, so they should be exempt as well

[Mudkips]

As the most influential nation in Haven, I can safely say that there is no need for Liberation.

FOAD.

[Anemos Major]

Quite a lot of Haven is popping in for tea, now...

... the scones are in the other room, sir. Shall I take your coat?

In all honesty, I think this thread was over the moment people starting questioning it. It's just... pointless.