[Draft] Condemn DEN

[Ayvari]

I'm just worried that one day my region will be invaded and we'll have to remake everything and let all the nations that were in it try to find us again....

So don't go founderless. Your region isn't worth raiding seriously as long as you have a founder. The worst you'd get is a tag if you had 1-2 endorsements on your delegate or no delegate, and a tag can be reversed with little effort. Always save a copy of the WFE and the flag elsewhere for backup, and make a note of which tags and embassies your region has. People do a lot of complaining or worrying, but make little effort to have a countermeasure against raids.

Non-Executive delegacies are always your best bet. It isn't difficult to give your non-executive delegate a RO position which grants them the authority they lack in the delegate seat. It seems like a lot of bother, but it takes less effort than cleaning up or posting on the forum, and gives you absolute protection. What's to get in the way of that?

[Nohbdy]

I see a few minor grammatical errors, but it doesn't look like a terrible draft.

Would you mind pointing them out please?

[Pierconium]

Full support for the self condemnation.

[Nohbdy]

Can we pass a resolution calling for a moratorium on Condemning DEN for the next 6 months? I'm tired of these bi-weekly attempts.

People should join the fight against invaders if they're so concerned. That or maybe Commend one of the few that stand in their way.

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If we could, I would support it, but imo this is the only actually option.

[Bhikkustan]

Condemn does nothing. We need a utter delete of the region, and all its inhabitants.

[Phydios]

Condemn does nothing. We need a utter delete of the region, and all its inhabitants.

Good luck with that. Deletions only happen when players break site rules (usually many times), and being unpopular is not a breach of site rules.

[The Brand New Salvatagard Republic]

Okay, if anyone from DEN is reading this, can you please answer something for me. If you want to fight a war, instead of just annoying the living hell out of everyone and having to make a new region, why not just ask them if you can RP a war?

Because DEN chooses to fight war using game mechanics. It is no less a valid form of war than roleplaying war, and you can't godmod the results.

Thank you! I want DEN comdemned!

What will it really achieve in the end though? The Black Hawks have been condemned for years and it hasn't slowed down their activities or recruitment levels.

Hambug! If that's the case, we seriously need to raid DEN ourselves!

[Austro-Germanica]

Condemn does nothing. We need a utter delete of the region, and all its inhabitants.

And what would it change? They will just found a new region and continue their activities. The region DEN is merely a placeholder for the community to put their nations, and nothing more.

[Naginii]

I don't get how basically griefing a region is a game mechanic....

Because it's not "Griefing." Read the official game FAQ.

It's getting a bit old to say, but raiding is a legal gametype. Period. The game's very own creator allows it to exist.

I find this attention on DEN humorous, because it's like many of you have suddenly discovered a wholly new and frightening gametype for the first time. Raiding has been part of this game since it's inception, going back to the Farkers, and DEN are only one of many practicing the tradition.

You can hate raiding all you like, hate the raider/defender game, but Nation States is a geopolitical simulation of which conflict and competition is part of the narrative. Raiding offers that genuine conflict, and gives the game true consequence for regional complacency — something that RP doesn't deliver.

[Naginii]

The Security Council,

Observing DEN as a notorious military organization, known for its unprovoked attacks against innocent regions of various sizes and ideologies,

Recognizing DEN as the most powerful military in the world, capable of taking over and occupying multiple regions at the same time. For example, throughout the St Abbaddon campaign, three other regions have been placed under occupation, including Yorkshire, NeoConfederate States of America, and Anarchy,

Disturbed that as of this moment, DEN forces occupy the regions of St Abbaddon and Anarchy, both of which have previously been liberated by this very council,

Horrified by the actions DEN takes during their occupations, including the forceful removal of each region’s population, causing mass migrations of displaced refugees throughout the world,

Noting that since it’s revival, at least ten large regions have suffered under DEN occupation, including:

• Paradoxia
• Power is Rising
• Japan
• Union of Proletarian States
• The West Pacific
• California
• St Abbaddon
• Yorkshire
• NeoConfederate States of America
• Anarchy

Further Noting that this is not the first raider organization to be associated with the name DEN: a name that has been a part of raider history since the dawn of the world,

Recalling that the original incarnation of DEN was defeated by defenders, causing the old organization to take up residency in Ile de France,

Disappointed that the current version of DEN has garnered the support of Ile De France, motivating the old raiders to become a more active raider force,

Concerned by the fact that DEN has inherited and consolidated the possessions and conquests of the now defunct raider region, The Black Riders,

Pointing out that Gest - the founder of DEN, and highest ranking member of it’s military - has already been branded with a condemnation via Security Council Resolution #122,

Troubled by the number of raider regions and organizations that have shown support for the activities carried out by DEN, and that such support has resulted in partnerships with a number of regions, including Brotherhood of Shadows, HYDRA Command, Knights of Ren, The Black Hawks, Auralia, Europeia, Lone Wolves United, The Land of Kings and Emperors, The Kingdom of Great Britain, and Cimmeria,

Understanding that while DEN is far from the only raider organization in the world, it is one of the most well known and active groups, giving it symbolic meaning in the eyes of the world as a representation of the raider ideology,

Denouncing the regional destruction carried out by raider influence under the organization and leadership of DEN, and all the future destruction that is sure to follow,

Wishing to discourage future groups from falling under raider influence, while simultaneously expressing the utmost disapproval of DEN,

Hereby Condemns DEN.

You may as well delete old DEN/IDF history; it's not even close to accurate and doesn't help your case. I've been an IDF native since July 21, 2004, was a DEN and DA officer and is RW friends with the leader of that era's DEN, and I don't recognize the story you're trying to tell.

That said, your problem isn't with that era's DEN, it's with this one. Our DEN fought it's fight and had faded away until this one emerged — and the two are very different in terms of how they operate. If you want to make this condemn stick, build a case for what they're doing on the gamemap now, not what we did 10+ years ago.

[Naginii]

I'm just worried that one day my region will be invaded and we'll have to remake everything and let all the nations that were in it try to find us again....

So don't go founderless. Your region isn't worth raiding seriously as long as you have a founder. The worst you'd get is a tag if you had 1-2 endorsements on your delegate or no delegate, and a tag can be reversed with little effort. Always save a copy of the WFE and the flag elsewhere for backup, and make a note of which tags and embassies your region has. People do a lot of complaining or worrying, but make little effort to have a countermeasure against raids.

Non-Executive delegacies are always your best bet. It isn't difficult to give your non-executive delegate a RO position which grants them the authority they lack in the delegate seat. It seems like a lot of bother, but it takes less effort than cleaning up or posting on the forum, and gives you absolute protection. What's to get in the way of that?

Exactly. Don't want to get raided? Don't make yourself a target. Learn how to play the game. Compete. That's the point.

[Cora III]

Exactly.

Funniest thing in this all is the fact that most vocal instructors for natives to avoid getting raided and/or how to fix/minimize harm caused by DEN's raiding activity have lately been - not that surprisingly - DEN members and affiliates themselves. Even to the degree there are ABC level DIY guides for that in free circulation. Aren't DEN acts (and raiders generally) more commendworthy in these efforts to educate NS-players then defenders who fail to do their natural job?

[McMannia Squared]

.....Hydra got mentioned in a condemnation?

I'm literally crying tears of joy.

[McMannia Squared]

I'm also impressed with the condemnation, very well written, detailed, and eloquent.

[Wallenburg]

.....Hydra got mentioned in a condemnation?

I'm literally crying tears of joy.

Too many smilies, dude. Just some advice.

[McMannia Squared]

I get giddy sometimes when I drink. I apologize

[Nohbdy]

You may as well delete old DEN/IDF history; it's not even close to accurate and doesn't help your case. I've been an IDF native since July 21, 2004, was a DEN and DA officer and is RW friends with the leader of that era's DEN, and I don't recognize the story you're trying to tell.

That said, your problem isn't with that era's DEN, it's with this one. Our DEN fought it's fight and had faded away until this one emerged — and the two are very different in terms of how they operate. If you want to make this condemn stick, build a case for what they're doing on the gamemap now, not what we did 10+ years ago.

Yeah, I was informed offsite that that entire section is inaccurate. My interpretation of the historical information I had available really deviated from what it actually said. Sorry.

Next draft will be keeping part of the section, but I'll probably just take it out. Thank you for your input Naginii.

[Lychgate]

Eliminate the "recognizing DEN as the most powerful military in the world" sentence. That turns your condemnation into a badge for them, and takes away from the "express shock or dismay" effect. I don't exactly see how that sentence helps your proposal, but maybe that's just me.

[Naginii]

Exactly.

Funniest thing in this all is the fact that most vocal instructors for natives to avoid getting raided and/or how to fix/minimize harm caused by DEN's raiding activity have lately been - not that surprisingly - DEN members and affiliates themselves. Even to the degree there are ABC level DIY guides for that in free circulation. Aren't DEN acts (and raiders generally) more commendworthy in these efforts to educate NS-players then defenders who fail to do their natural job?

^^This.

Alphaks, Franks and I used to argue that raiding was a way of renewing the game, like fire in a forest. It reminded the natives what was at stake if they became complacent. Franks famously raided his own region (IDF) to prove the point to us natives not to take things for granted and to become active participants in building a robust region.

[The Constellation Islands]

This is interesting, NSA, I never thought you'd go after your own region.

Then again, I can see your frustration. These shoddy anti-DEN proposals are like an itchy and scratchy turtleneck collar that you can't get off, this would be the be-all and end-all of anti DEN proposals.

But keep in mind, history has proven to repeat itself, someone could come along wishing to repeal this should it pass, and restart this anti-DEN proposal death spiral.

Considering you've been very helpful with my proposals in the past, it's only courteous that I do the same.

The Confederacy of The Constellation Islands hereby approves and supports this proposal.

[Thorn1000]

Okay, if anyone from DEN is reading this, can you please answer something for me. If you want to fight a war, instead of just annoying the living hell out of everyone and having to make a new region, why not just ask them if you can RP a war?

Because rp-ing is gross. Also we don't "annoy the living hell out of everyone" just most regions and or people in general

[Alagaeia]

UM The Kingdom of Great Britain is not a raider region guys! This is offensive, we are definitely Imperialist. Can we at least be labelled correctly if we must be labelled?

[The Silver Sentinel]

UM The Kingdom of Great Britain is not a raider region guys! This is offensive, we are definitely Imperialist. Can we at least be labelled correctly if we must be labelled?

Nah, you guys are raiders. But at least you are raiders that have a clear objective.

[Nohbdy]

Just an fyi to everyone, I have not posted in a day or two due to very spotty internet connections over the past few days, and my hatred of using the forums on mobile. I find it hard to make edits when I can barely see the screen.

UM The Kingdom of Great Britain is not a raider region guys! This is offensive, we are definitely Imperialist. Can we at least be labelled correctly if we must be labelled?

I meant to simply label you as a partnered region, but I see how it looks like I'm calling you raiders. I'll see if I can fix it.

EDIT: Spelling errors, which kind of proves my point.

[Bhikkustan]

Okay, if anyone from DEN is reading this, can you please answer something for me. If you want to fight a war, instead of just annoying the living hell out of everyone and having to make a new region, why not just ask them if you can RP a war?

Because rp-ing is gross. Also we don't "annoy the living hell out of everyone" just most regions and or people in general

Dude, that is pretty obvious flame baiting.