[Resuscitated Draft] Condemn Bitely

[Imperium Anglorum]

I am a member of the UDL. You can look if you would like: http://s4.zetaboards.com/UDL/topic/10186436/4/#new

Next post: 'It's been insinuated that you are a returning player that used to be known under a different name. Can you PM Ravania and myself the identity of that former name, or at least a reason why you will not divulge it?'

What whitespace are you referring to?

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The new line between 'blah' and 'comment'. It is entirely unnecessary.

[The Silver Sentinel]

I am a member of the UDL. You can look if you would like: http://s4.zetaboards.com/UDL/topic/10186436/4/#new

Next post: 'It's been insinuated that you are a returning player that used to be known under a different name. Can you PM Ravania and myself the identity of that former name, or at least a reason why you will not divulge it?'

Because it is nobody's business but my own. If you are insinuating something here, please spit it out already. Otherwise get back on topic, as my identity has nothing to do with this train wreck.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Because it is nobody's business but my own. If you are insinuating something here, please spit it out already. Otherwise get back on topic, as my identity has nothing to do with this train wreck.

It's like Chester has returned with his talk of GHRs and stuff! This player even does that annoying whitespace after every ... tag! And it even has the old UDL sticker!

It's been spit out.

[The Silver Sentinel]

Because it is nobody's business but my own. If you are insinuating something here, please spit it out already. Otherwise get back on topic, as my identity has nothing to do with this train wreck.

It's like Chester has returned with his talk of GHRs and stuff! This player even does that annoying whitespace after every ... tag! And it even has the old UDL sticker!

It's been spit out.

Good for you. You have made an accusation which you have absolutely no way of proving. Are you proud of yourself?

[Imperium Anglorum]

It's been spit out.

Good for you. You have made an accusation which you have absolutely no way of proving. Are you proud of yourself?

You've accused me of stalking you via two telegrams which you know are total bollocks. Are you proud of yourself? What's next, saying I'm stalking you because of the fact that I use the Security Council forum and follow links?

[Sedgistan]

A report was submitted on the legality of this proposal, regarding this clause as a possible Rule 4 a/c violation:

Shocked that this rough draft of legislation actually managed to reach quorum, due largely to the amount of money Bitely's Ambassador put in to the proposal's WA telegram campaign, which targeted every single member nation of the World Assembly, over 20 000 nations,

I've looked at it, and do not consider it a violation. It doesn't reference the "real world" outside of NS - it's referring to a part of the game, so definitely doesn't violation Rule 4a. As for Rule 4c, the key part is that it doesn't refer to it "as part of a game". The language is "SC-IC" and is an appropriate IC description of a quirk of the NationStates world.

It's therefore not illegal to refer to the various paid aspects of the site - you just have to be incredibly careful how you do it. "Examplestan spent $50 on stamps and recruitment-bombed Testregionia" would be illegal. Something along the lines of "Examplestan invested significant sums of money in sending telegrams to nations within Testregionia" would be fine. I actually think Excidium Planetis has worded the clause quoted above extremely well.

With that sorted, please end the threadjack and return to debating the proposal.

[Vancouvia]

I miss the good ol days when someone could toss out 80 bucks on a text based RP game and not be singled out for it

[The Silver Sentinel]

I miss the good ol days when someone could toss out 80 bucks on a text based RP game and not be singled out for it

It's a little thing called jealousy. They can't afford to do it, so they bitch and snipe at people who can. Just goes to show that telegram stamps were the worst idea they have ever come up with in this game. Max makes money and we have to put up with garbage like this.

[Excidium Planetis]

A report was submitted on the legality of this proposal, regarding this clause as a possible Rule 4 a/c violation:

Shocked that this rough draft of legislation actually managed to reach quorum, due largely to the amount of money Bitely's Ambassador put in to the proposal's WA telegram campaign, which targeted every single member nation of the World Assembly, over 20 000 nations,

I've looked at it, and do not consider it a violation. It doesn't reference the "real world" outside of NS - it's referring to a part of the game, so definitely doesn't violation Rule 4a. As for Rule 4c, the key part is that it doesn't refer to it "as part of a game". The language is "SC-IC" and is an appropriate IC description of a quirk of the NationStates world.

It's therefore not illegal to refer to the various paid aspects of the site - you just have to be incredibly careful how you do it. "Examplestan spent $50 on stamps and recruitment-bombed Testregionia" would be illegal. Something along the lines of "Examplestan invested significant sums of money in sending telegrams to nations within Testregionia" would be fine. I actually think Excidium Planetis has worded the clause quoted above extremely well.

With that sorted, please end the threadjack and return to debating the proposal.

Thank you mods.

Real world is 4(a), not 4(c), and as I nowhere referred to the money as real world money, it is not a violation. Saying it is is tantamount to saying that mentions of raiding are real world violations because they refer to the real world action of raiding.

If you're so sure, then submit the resolution. I can guarantee it will be deleted.

You were saying?

Now, thank you for wasting my time by submitting this before it was even done being drafted and debated, exactly what I criticized Bitely for doing.

I miss the good ol days when someone could toss out 80 bucks on a text based RP game and not be singled out for it

If that was the only thing, I would have no problem. I considered buying stamps myself to speed up my own campaign. The real problem is not that Bitely spent money, it's that Bitely used money to get crappy, completely unrevised/edited/debated/etc. legislation passed. If Bitely had just had the resolution debated first before submission, I wouldn't have cared how much money was spent.

[Kaboomlandia]

Full support. Bitely paid for their badge. That's a no-no.

[Tinfect]

OOC:
Honestly, I think this has about the chances of an Ice Cube on Venus to actually pass at vote, but you have my support.

[Phydios]

"We throw our full support behind this resolution, for the reasons stated. However, we must inform the Excidium Planetis delegate that it has a typographical error. In the seventh clause, the word 'inacts' should be 'enacts'."

[Ambroscus Koth]

Full support. Bitely paid for their badge. That's a no-no.

...Are we gonna condemn everyone who uses stamps for WA campaigning now? That's a pretty shitty precedent.

[Tinfect]

...Are we gonna condemn everyone who uses stamps for WA campaigning now? That's a pretty shitty precedent.

OOC:
It is more to do with the fact that it is pretty much the only reason it made it to vote, and it even managed to drive the abomination of a proposal to a barely passing vote.

[Ambroscus Koth]

...Are we gonna condemn everyone who uses stamps for WA campaigning now? That's a pretty shitty precedent.

OOC:
It is more to do with the fact that it is pretty much the only reason it made it to vote, and it even managed to drive the abomination of a proposal to a barely passing vote.

Who cares? He used the completely legitimate tools he had access to and made something happen with them. That seems like something we should be commending, sticking with your proposal until the very end and doing what it takes to get it through. More GA authors should be like Bitely.

[Excidium Planetis]

"We throw our full support behind this resolution, for the reasons stated. However, we must inform the Excidium Planetis delegate that it has a typographical error. In the seventh clause, the word 'inacts' should be 'enacts'."

Damn. I should have preformed better.

At least I don't plan on this making it to quorum the first time. I hope that it doesn't so I can get some feedback like that, improve it, and resubmit it.

Full support. Bitely paid for their badge. That's a no-no.

...Are we gonna condemn everyone who uses stamps for WA campaigning now? That's a pretty shitty precedent.

No, we are going to condemn people for using money to ram through unedited crap instead of drafting like a sensible person.

[Kaboomlandia]

More GA authors should be like Bitely.

OOC: I'm not bashing the fact that Bitely used stamps. What I'm miffed at is that Bitely bought 20,000 telegram stamps and used them to push a travesty of a proposal to quorum, wasting four days of everybody's time and necessitating a repeal, using up four more days of the WA's time.

[Excidium Planetis]

OOC:
It is more to do with the fact that it is pretty much the only reason it made it to vote, and it even managed to drive the abomination of a proposal to a barely passing vote.

Who cares? He used the completely legitimate tools he had access to and made something happen with them. That seems like something we should be commending, sticking with your proposal until the very end and doing what it takes to get it through. More GA authors should be like Bitely.

Oh Gawd no...

I don't want more campaign telegrams with grammatical errors being sent out to everyone to ram through destructive legislation that never saw a drafting phase. Please, no more Bitelys.

[Imperium Anglorum]

More GA authors should be like Bitely.

OOC: I'm not bashing the fact that Bitely used stamps. What I'm miffed at is that Bitely bought 20,000 telegram stamps and used them to push a travesty of a proposal to quorum, wasting four days of everybody's time and necessitating a repeal, using up four more days of the WA's time.

If he ran 2 Delegate campaigns and one full WA campaign... that is a full total of 21 829 stamps, my friends. Equivalent to 21.83 dollars.

[Topid]

OOC: I'm not bashing the fact that Bitely used stamps. What I'm miffed at is that Bitely bought 20,000 telegram stamps and used them to push a travesty of a proposal to quorum, wasting four days of everybody's time and necessitating a repeal, using up four more days of the WA's time.

If he ran 2 Delegate campaigns and one full WA campaign... that is a full total of 21 829 stamps, my friends. Equivalent to 21.83 dollars.

Which for four days of fun, is pretty affordable, IMO.

I'm a little confused. I feel I put far stupider things to vote just for LULz and no one seemed to care.

EDIT: Actually now that I think about it mine failed, his passed. That's probably the difference.

[Ramaeus]

Where's my condemnation for being one of the biggest reasons this passed!? I demand consistency!

[Excidium Planetis]

If he ran 2 Delegate campaigns and one full WA campaign... that is a full total of 21 829 stamps, my friends. Equivalent to 21.83 dollars.

Which for four days of fun, is pretty affordable, IMO.

I'm a little confused. I feel I put far stupider things to vote just for LULz and no one seemed to care.

EDIT: Actually now that I think about it mine failed, his passed. That's probably the difference.

Yes. The difference is that stupidity on the level of World Space Administration is normally defeated before it even makes it to vote... but Bitely manage to get it to vote and get it to pass, mostly due to the fact that Bitely paid for a ton of stamps.

Where's my condemnation for being one of the biggest reasons this passed!? I demand consistency!

Sadly, there is no Condemnation for voting for a poor resolution. Only for writing one, not having a drafting phase, a paying to ensure it makes it to vote.

[Tano]

The most ironic thing is that condemning Bitely is simply rewarding him for his behavior. Both Commends and Condemns work as badges, Commends for "good" in-game things and Condemns for "evil".

You are empowering Bitely and simply giving him extra notoriety/influence.

In the GA thread for Bitely's proposal, a couple posters made the point that the fact that it even passed is a bad thing because despite repeals, it will still be recorded forever in the GA archives. Passing this would ensure the same thing: it would cement Bitely forever in the annals of the Security Council.

Funnily enough this post is actually running counter to my own interests (I personally would love to see him get condemned) but the chance to point out the irony of your actions was too enticing to pass up. So best of luck with the proposal.

[Ambroscus Koth]

I'm with Tano: I'm totally for this proposal but for all the wrong reasons

[Excidium Planetis]

The most ironic thing is that condemning Bitely is simply rewarding him for his behavior. Both Commends and Condemns work as badges, Commends for "good" in-game things and Condemns for "evil".

You are empowering Bitely and simply giving him extra notoriety/influence.

In the GA thread for Bitely's proposal, a couple posters made the point that the fact that it even passed is a bad thing because despite repeals, it will still be recorded forever in the GA archives. Passing this would ensure the same thing: it would cement Bitely forever in the annals of the Security Council.

Funnily enough this post is actually running counter to my own interests (I personally would love to see him get condemned) but the chance to point out the irony of your actions was too enticing to pass up. So best of luck with the proposal.

If he's going to be enshrined forever anyways, might as well also enshrine him forever as a "villain". Plus, as mentioned, it is great catharsis to Condemn people you are frustrated with.