Venico wrote:Steal? Maybe. Grind into the dust? Totally.
One follows logically enough from the other. At least you didn't mince words about it.
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by Allanea » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:37 am
by Venico » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:41 am
by Bretton » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:44 am
Dear Friend,
We are closing the region Haven and turning it into a memorial region for all those we lost in the banning from the unjust moderators. I am asking that you move your nation to The Genesis Corporation. TGC is a new region that we are going to use for active role play. Even if you no long want to role play on NationStates anymore, I recommend you join the rest of us from Haven at TGC. I am asking that you please move there as soon as you read this, so we can finally set this region up as a memorial region. If you don't move your nation, we will have to eject you from the region. (Even though that is the last thing I want to do, it will just take more time if you stay.)
Sincerely,
Your WA Delegate and Fellow RPer `GoCss
by Venico » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:49 am
by Unibot III » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:24 am
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Sternberg » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:56 am
[...] Dismissing the argument that peaceful regions such as Haven should not be attacked by noting that such "peaceful regions" were heavily involved in the 2013 coup of The South Pacific.
Confident that a number of raiding organizations could utilize the region for far more interesting things than the current residents are choosing to,
[...] Believing that the activity created by such invasions will outweigh any potential moral evils associated with stripping the region of its protection,
Hoping that this Liberation will spur activity in similarly protected regions lest they meet the same fate
I'm not a hypocrite, I'm a raider. I raid. It's what I do. Haven is the hypocritical group for hiding behind a password which they do not deserve ...
DISGUSTED by Mallorea and Riva's involvement in the coup of the South Pacific, in which the administration of Mallorea and Riva assisted in purging around 1,000 nations from the South Pacific alongside 3,000 total with Milograd and JAL
by Zepplin Manufacturers » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:08 am
by Tiami » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:13 am
by Kylarnatia » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:41 am
Dismissing the argument that peaceful regions such as Haven should not be attacked by noting that such "peaceful regions" were heavily involved in the 2013 coup of The South Pacific.
The Ancient Empire of Kylarnatia // Imperium Antiquum KylarnatiaeI write mostly in PMT-FaNT, and I enjoy worldbuilding and storytelling. Any questions? Ask away!
Lord of Gholgoth | Factbook (Work in Progress) | Embassy & Consulate Programme
"Kylarnatia is a rare Nile platypus." - Kyrusia
by Stevid » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:45 am
Mallorea and Riva wrote:Here's a draft that I've been kicking around in my head for awhile. I'm open to all suggestions for improvement, but obviously I will not be abandoning the effort and I do not consider recommendations to scrap this idea entirely as a suggestion for improvement.(Image)Liberate Haven
The Security Council,
Aware that the region Haven has hidden behind a password for well over four years,
Disappointed that many regions have taken to cowering behind passwords for protection for long durations rather than acting to strengthen themselves,
Confident that a number of raiding organizations could utilize the region for far more interesting things than the current residents are choosing to,
Dismissing the argument that peaceful regions such as Haven should not be attacked by noting that such "peaceful regions" were heavily involved in the 2013 coup of The South Pacific.
Believing that the activity created by such invasions will outweigh any potential moral evils associated with stripping the region of its protection,
Hoping that this Liberation will spur activity in similarly protected regions lest they meet the same fate,
Hereby Liberates Haven
I'm not familiar with exactly when Haven passworded itself, so if that four year figure needs adjusting one way or the other that information would be appreciated.
Aware that the region Haven has hidden behind a password for well over four years
Disappointed that many regions have taken to cowering behind passwords for protection for long durations rather than acting to strengthen themselves
Confident that a number of raiding organizations could utilize the region for far more interesting things than the current residents are choosing to
Dismissing the argument that peaceful regions such as Haven should not be attacked by noting that such "peaceful regions" were heavily involved in the 2013 coup of The South Pacific
Believing that the activity created by such invasions will outweigh any potential moral evils associated with stripping the region of its protection
Hoping that this Liberation will spur activity in similarly protected regions lest they meet the same fate
by Questers » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:45 am
by Questers » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:48 am
Mallorea and Riva wrote:Here's a draft that I've been kicking around in my head for awhile. I'm open to all suggestions for improvement, but obviously I will not be abandoning the effort and I do not consider recommendations to scrap this idea entirely as a suggestion for improvement.(Image)Liberate Haven
The Security Council,
Aware that the region Haven has hidden behind a password for well over four years,
Disappointed that many regions have taken to cowering behind passwords for protection for long durations rather than acting to strengthen themselves,
Confident that a number of raiding organizations could utilize the region for far more interesting things than the current residents are choosing to,
Dismissing the argument that peaceful regions such as Haven should not be attacked by noting that such "peaceful regions" were heavily involved in the 2013 coup of The South Pacific.
Believing that the activity created by such invasions will outweigh any potential moral evils associated with stripping the region of its protection,
Hoping that this Liberation will spur activity in similarly protected regions lest they meet the same fate,
Hereby Liberates Haven
I'm not familiar with exactly when Haven passworded itself, so if that four year figure needs adjusting one way or the other that information would be appreciated.
by Stevid » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:53 am
Questers wrote:I am quite confident I can use your country more interestingly than you can use it. I am believe that any activity created by taking your country will outweigh any moral evils associated with strippng you of your protection. I therefore propose that your password should be removed and we should be able to use your nationstates.net account. If the majority wants to do it, and benefits from doing it, it's ok, right? This is such a senseless argument. There are rules on this forum - this game - and passwords exist to protect us the vacuity of gameplay. If the gameplayers can actually get the password and break into the region - good luck with tht one, by the way, because there are only two people who know it (I am one of them) that is another thing, but you can not remove an obstacle that exists for the very reason that it is working well in a specific case. If you can just get passwords removed by majority, what's the point in them?
by Questers » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:55 am
by The Dark Star Republic » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:21 am
So I wouldn't expect regions like Haven to be under threat, unless the invaders were considerably cleverer than defenders.
by Nephmir » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:21 am
Confident that a number ofraidingorganizations could utilize the region for far more interesting things than the current residents are choosing to,
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by Questers » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:30 am
What is the purpose of the password then? Seems like a pointless thing to have. If gameplayers want to raid a region they can just liberate it. So ultimately why bother having the password?Nephmir wrote:Proposals to liberate a region to invade it afterwards is not an "abuse of SC powers". It's completely legal, as stated in the stickies in this forum, and one of the intended uses of the liberation.
by Zepplin Manufacturers » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:45 am
by Stevid » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:48 am
Nephmir wrote:Proposals to liberate a region to invade it afterwards is not an "abuse of SC powers". It's completely legal, as stated in the stickies in this forum, and one of the intended uses of the liberation.
While I don't think this region is significant enough to raid anymore, I think the response to the passing of this resolution and the follow-up raid would be very significant.
I support.Confident that a number ofraidingorganizations could utilize the region for far more interesting things than the current residents are choosing to,
I'd suggest removing "raiding" entirely and either leaving it be or replacing it with a more broad term. Not a lot of delegates would support this as soon as they saw the word "raiding" in it, as we've seen in this thread so far. Not every delegate will finish reading after seeing that mentioned in the proposal.
Just advice of course, as I've never actually attempted to right an honest proposal
*Grabs notepad and starts plotting first proposal*
Mallorea and Riva wrote:Of course i want to raid Haven. Again the draft says that. There is no sneaky hidden agenda here. And it's not because of TSP. That line is just there to demonstrate the hyprocrisy of the region. It really doesn't matter that it wasn't recent.
by Nephmir » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:54 am
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The 300 Endorsements of Nephmir
"100 by land, 100 by air, 100 by sea."
Mercenary of The Sable Order
Commander in Project Soul
by Oyada » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:54 am
Nephmir wrote:I'd suggest removing "raiding" entirely and either leaving it be or replacing it with a more broad term. Not a lot of delegates would support this as soon as they saw the word "raiding" in it, as we've seen in this thread so far. Not every delegate will finish reading after seeing that mentioned in the proposal.
by Nephmir » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:02 am
Oyada wrote:Nephmir wrote:I'd suggest removing "raiding" entirely and either leaving it be or replacing it with a more broad term. Not a lot of delegates would support this as soon as they saw the word "raiding" in it, as we've seen in this thread so far. Not every delegate will finish reading after seeing that mentioned in the proposal.
Nice to see the standards of honesty, integrity, and commitment to clarity are all alive and well in the Security Council. "Well, if we actually admit that what we want to do is force a region open so we can trash it, people might not agree to let us!"
This is exactly what's wrong with Raiding/Defending. It's a cheap exploit of a game mechanic that's too deeply ingrained in the code to be removed, and it allows bullies and vandals to break into other people's regions, for no purpose other than to damage them. It is morally no better than kicking in someone's front door, spraying graffiti all over their wallpaper, breaking anything fragile one can find, and then leaving with a cheery, "so long, we all had fun". It is not only wanton vandalism, but vandalism which is not (and, realistically, probably cannot be) policed against by the moderation team. As the final and bitterest pill, there is essentially nothing that anyone of us not interested can do about being forced into it; any RP region which does not wish to have its peace and quiet disrupted is obliged to have founder protection, in order to keep the R/D types out. It's not even as though there's any active defence against it - except by becoming a Raid/Defend type oneself. We don't, and can't, go scrawling densely-written RP posts across Raider and Defender regions' message boards all day; even if we had the ability, most of us aren't interested in doing so. We're too busy, you know, writing. Being creative. Not breaking everyone else's stuff.
Conducted without the consent of the victim region, providing nothing in the way of benefit to them, and leaving them to pick up the pieces, R/D is nothing more than a plague. In the real world, it would be a crime. This resolution is designed to facilitate the commission of that crime.
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Military Gameplay
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The 300 Endorsements of Nephmir
"100 by land, 100 by air, 100 by sea."
Mercenary of The Sable Order
Commander in Project Soul
by Sternberg » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:08 am
Nephmir wrote: You obviously don't know much about me, do you? I am no Raider.
I suggested this to allow the unbiased, for lack of a better word, decision making for delegates. Defenders are quick to throw away this resolution without fully thinking about what it will change, while Raiders seem to acknowledge the changes. At first, the Raiders will benefit from this, but then the Defenders will have the long-term advantage. Although, you are correct, I don't believe that the region should be raided for "fun" or based on an event that happened over a year ago like the Raiders who wish to support this (excuse my hasty generalizations, but if this is not true feel free to correct me).
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