[Submitted] Liberate Haven

[Mallorea and Riva]

That's not only not what I said, but it is also bafflingly strange that you jumped to that from what was said. The outsiders are those who are not involved looking in at this thread. They see you make claims which are demonstrably false, and then this harms your opposition politically.

Jumping to conclusions? Like what you did when you found out a small handful of Havenites who no longer are in Haven participated in a single gameplay action? You automatically assumed it was a region-wide activity thus making them perfect targets for raider vandalism?

The opposition to this proposal initially categorically denied that Haven had any connection to TSP. Then the embassy was pointed out and they denied completely that anyone from the region was involved. Then it was shown that one was and they said only the one. Then a native admitted more involvement, and this cycle has just continued. People who weren't there making claims on things that they simply don't know about, and then on discovering that they are demonstrably wrong they jump to the next defensive line in the argument. The opposition has moved so far so quickly away from where they started that it is amazing.

[Mallorea and Riva]

I don't personally know anyone in Haven, unless they are a puppet of another player and I am not aware of it.

My point still stands, you are trying to get around the mechanism specifically designed to stop raiders

I'm definitely trying to use a mechanic to counter the password to the region, that much is said outright in the proposal.

[Rannoch of the Veil]

My point still stands, you are trying to get around the mechanism specifically designed to stop raiders

I'm definitely trying to use a mechanic to counter the password to the region, that much is said outright in the proposal.

And why?? There's no point in raiding Haven other than to inflate some egos

Jumping to conclusions? Like what you did when you found out a small handful of Havenites who no longer are in Haven participated in a single gameplay action? You automatically assumed it was a region-wide activity thus making them perfect targets for raider vandalism?

The opposition to this proposal initially categorically denied that Haven had any connection to TSP. Then the embassy was pointed out and they denied completely that anyone from the region was involved. Then it was shown that one was and they said only the one. Then a native admitted more involvement, and this cycle has just continued. People who weren't there making claims on things that they simply don't know about, and then on discovering that they are demonstrably wrong they jump to the next defensive line in the argument. The opposition has moved so far so quickly away from where they started that it is amazing.

Frankly, so what? If a few people from Haven start R/D-ing, does that mean Haven now needs to be raided? I think not; that's like saying if an R/D-er RPs at some point, he no longer counts as an R/D-er

[Chester Pearson]

I don't personally know anyone in Haven, unless they are a puppet of another player and I am not aware of it.

My point still stands, you are trying to get around the mechanism specifically designed to stop raiders

Once again... How is this any different than the feeders drafting the liberation of Nazi Europe, that passed by a landslide margin?

[The Serbian Empire]

My point still stands, you are trying to get around the mechanism specifically designed to stop raiders

Once again... How is this any different than the feeders drafting the liberation of Nazi Europe, that passed by a landslide margin?

The fact a mod authored it and has tried to liberate as for him to get a street credit boost in the raider community. It also doesn't have that Nazi aspect that anti-fascists (Libertarians and Social Democrats) would want to liberate due to the Nazi Fascism aspect.

[Rephesus]

Jumping to conclusions? Like what you did when you found out a small handful of Havenites who no longer are in Haven participated in a single gameplay action? You automatically assumed it was a region-wide activity thus making them perfect targets for raider vandalism?

The opposition to this proposal initially categorically denied that Haven had any connection to TSP. Then the embassy was pointed out and they denied completely that anyone from the region was involved. Then it was shown that one was and they said only the one. Then a native admitted more involvement, and this cycle has just continued. People who weren't there making claims on things that they simply don't know about, and then on discovering that they are demonstrably wrong they jump to the next defensive line in the argument. The opposition has moved so far so quickly away from where they started that it is amazing.

You're generalizing again.

I know I for one never denied that. Who is 'they'?

The 'Native' is from Maredoratica, at the time of the proposal he was aswell. Everyone he said was involved is not in Haven at the time of proposal.

[Rannoch of the Veil]

Once again... How is this any different than the feeders drafting the liberation of Nazi Europe, that passed by a landslide margin?

The fact a mod authored it and has tried to liberate as for him to get a street credit boost in the raider community. It also doesn't have that Nazi aspect that anti-fascists (Libertarians and Social Democrats) would want to liberate due to the Nazi Fascism aspect.

Ta, I wasn't going to dignify that with an answer

[Gristol-Serkonos]

Let's hypothesize that in some strange messed up alternate timeline, this resolution passed the Security Council, what will the author do with the region?

Will he focus its "revitalization efforts" towards Roleplay or Gameplay?

Adria Santos
High Commissioner of the Sovereign Empire of Gristol Serkonos in the World Assembly.

[Chester Pearson]

Once again... How is this any different than the feeders drafting the liberation of Nazi Europe, that passed by a landslide margin?

The fact a mod authored it and has tried to liberate as for him to get a street credit boost in the raider community. It also doesn't have that Nazi aspect that anti-fascists (Libertarians and Social Democrats) would want to liberate due to the Nazi Fascism aspect.

I am talking from a technical point of view. What makes this any different? The precedent has been set after all....

[Towers]

Confident that a number of raiding organizations could utilize the region for far more interesting things than the current residents are choosing to,

Believing that the activity created by such invasions will outweigh any potential moral evils associated with stripping the region of its protection,

Hoping that this Liberation will spur activity in similarly protected regions lest they meet the same fate,

So what you are trying to say, in far too many words is, that people are having the wrong kind of fun? Really, that's the path we're on?

Because if, as you have implyed, the whole TSP incident isn't the crux of your argument then what this boils down to is nothing more than a crusade against people who are having and I reiterate THE WRONG KIND OF FUN?

Madness, utter madness.

[The Serbian Empire]

The fact a mod authored it and has tried to liberate as for him to get a street credit boost in the raider community. It also doesn't have that Nazi aspect that anti-fascists (Libertarians and Social Democrats) would want to liberate due to the Nazi Fascism aspect.

I am talking from a technical point of view. What makes this any different? The precedent has been set after all....

There is little more than a name that separates the difference of reaction. There's no technical difference to be had. Just the image of Haven not being made of Neo-Nazis since the odds are none of those in Nazi Europe knew Rudolf Hess.

[Hittanryan]

Jumping to conclusions? Like what you did when you found out a small handful of Havenites who no longer are in Haven participated in a single gameplay action? You automatically assumed it was a region-wide activity thus making them perfect targets for raider vandalism?

The opposition to this proposal initially categorically denied that Haven had any connection to TSP. Then the embassy was pointed out and they denied completely that anyone from the region was involved. Then it was shown that one was and they said only the one. Then a native admitted more involvement, and this cycle has just continued. People who weren't there making claims on things that they simply don't know about, and then on discovering that they are demonstrably wrong they jump to the next defensive line in the argument. The opposition has moved so far so quickly away from where they started that it is amazing.

Actually, I never denied that Haven had a connection. In fact, I couldn't care less what they did or didn't do, because I couldn't care less about R/D. They seized some delegate in whatever region that barely does anything together. Big deal. I don't care.

All I care about is being able to opt out of some shitty metagame invented around the rules of WA delegates.

[Oseato]

Jumping to conclusions? Like what you did when you found out a small handful of Havenites who no longer are in Haven participated in a single gameplay action? You automatically assumed it was a region-wide activity thus making them perfect targets for raider vandalism?

The opposition to this proposal initially categorically denied that Haven had any connection to TSP. Then the embassy was pointed out and they denied completely that anyone from the region was involved. Then it was shown that one was and they said only the one. Then a native admitted more involvement, and this cycle has just continued. People who weren't there making claims on things that they simply don't know about, and then on discovering that they are demonstrably wrong they jump to the next defensive line in the argument. The opposition has moved so far so quickly away from where they started that it is amazing.

Again. This is completely false. Prekonate admitted that one Havenite was involved, the rest were from Maredoratica. Never did we categorically deny all Havenic involvement, only that Haven as a unified bloc supported the coup.

You just keep twisting words like its your job. It's amazing really.

[Aurora Confederacy]

---moved---

[Dukopolious]

Honestly the worst proposal I've ever seen on NS since the last time they tried this with haven.

And by a mod too.

[Virana]

well an idea banded around IRC, not my own, i suggested that a tick box to swear in a WAD was put in place, but for PLAYER FOUNDED REGIONS, all passwords are removed but all players outside are banned from entering, so you can not simply walk in, to join a region, a player must TG the founder or the WAD, the founder, (and WAD if given powers) reads the TG, he / she will by the TG have two buttons

when "invite" is clicked, two more buttons appear, asking "are you sure", [yes][no], once [yes] is sent, the person recieving the telegram gets a button

, after which it is then pressed and the person moves to the region he/she asked to be in. If that player leaves the region, you need to be re-invited in order to re enter.

This isn't the place to discuss that. This is a thread to discuss the Liberate Haven resolution. I'd recommend you post that to the "Discussion about R/D Game and RP Opting Out" thread.

Please, make sure this thread remains a discussion on this resolution.

[Mallorea and Riva]

well an idea banded around IRC, not my own, i suggested that a tick box to swear in a WAD was put in place, but for PLAYER FOUNDED REGIONS, all passwords are removed but all players outside are banned from entering, so you can not simply walk in, to join a region, a player must TG the founder or the WAD, the founder, (and WAD if given powers) reads the TG, he / she will by the TG have two buttons

when "invite" is clicked, two more buttons appear, asking "are you sure", [yes][no], once [yes] is sent, the person recieving the telegram gets a button

, after which it is then pressed and the person moves to the region he/she asked to be in. If that player leaves the region, you need to be re-invited in order to re enter.

You should put any ideas you have in the appropriate thread so that they get seen and addressed, putting them in here isn't going to help much.

The opposition to this proposal initially categorically denied that Haven had any connection to TSP. Then the embassy was pointed out and they denied completely that anyone from the region was involved. Then it was shown that one was and they said only the one. Then a native admitted more involvement, and this cycle has just continued. People who weren't there making claims on things that they simply don't know about, and then on discovering that they are demonstrably wrong they jump to the next defensive line in the argument. The opposition has moved so far so quickly away from where they started that it is amazing.

Again. This is completely false. Prekonate admitted that one Havenite was involved, the rest were from Maredoratica. Never did we categorically deny all Havenic involvement, only that Haven as a unified bloc supported the coup.

You just keep twisting words like its your job. It's amazing really.

Except that's not what he said. He said that "Several people from haven and other regions participated"... and then he said that you were involved. Were you?

[Ulil]

Boo!

[Ainocra]

The Star Empire will not approve this. If the natives of that region wish to remain behind a password I see no reason to stop them.

[Rephesus]

The Star Empire will not approve this. If the natives of that region wish to remain behind a password I see no reason to stop them.

Other than to allow raiders to vandalize it and kick natives, of course.

[Oseato]

.

Again. This is completely false. Prekonate admitted that one Havenite was involved, the rest were from Maredoratica. Never did we categorically deny all Havenic involvement, only that Haven as a unified bloc supported the coup.

You just keep twisting words like its your job. It's amazing really.

Except that's not what he said. He said that "Several people from haven and other regions participated"... and then he said that you were involved. Were you?

That's exactly what he said. I'm not sure why you insist on twisting the words. I was involved in the events of The South Pacific so I would know. I've never been a member of Haven and all our discussion of the coup was based, not in Haven, but in Maredoratica and another site entirely.

[Premislyd]

The Star Empire will not approve this. If the natives of that region wish to remain behind a password I see no reason to stop them.

Other than to allow raiders to vandalize it and kick natives, of course.

Some ppl on the internet were mean to me and kicked out my fictional nation on an internet browser game.

pls cry some more

[Cyllea]

Its okay, guys. It still only has 12 approvals.

[Oseato]

Other than to allow raiders to vandalize it and kick natives, of course.

Some ppl on the internet were mean to me and kicked out my fictional nation on an internet browser game.

pls cry some more

This is a really mature and useful comment. Thanks for contributing to the discussion of the proposal at hand.

[Premislyd]

Some ppl on the internet were mean to me and kicked out my fictional nation on an internet browser game.

pls cry some more

This is a really mature and useful comment. Thanks for contributing to the discussion of the proposal at hand.

The proposal is already submitted.

Noting the fact that Mallorea and Riva has said that he's not campaigning for it makes any further discussion spam, tbh