[Submitted] Liberate Haven

[The Batorys]

I am one of them

This is incredibly awkward for all of the posters above and below you who are trying to say that Haven was entirely uninvolved. Would you like to explain to the best of your recollection what happened in April of 2013 regarding the coup?

Right, so one dude who has been not even existing for the past eight months, and one other dude.

And you're asserting that Haven, as a region participated?

That's fucking laughable.

Beyond which... as I've said before, when someone tries something once, and then is never seen to do that thing again, the logical conclusion is that when they tried it, they didn't like it, so decided it wasn't for them.

Furthermore, if people are going to be punished for the alleged coup in TSP, why not you? You were as much a part of it as anyone, apparently.

[Kraciva]

I am one of them

This is incredibly awkward for all of the posters above and below you who are trying to say that Haven was entirely uninvolved. Would you like to explain to the best of your recollection what happened in April of 2013 regarding the coup?

Would you like to provide proof of what happened in April 2013 regarding these incidents to educate those who weren't there? Or will you continue supporting your arguments with baseless words?

[Prekonate]

I am one of them

This is incredibly awkward for all of the posters above and below you who are trying to say that Haven was entirely uninvolved. Would you like to explain to the best of your recollection what happened in April of 2013 regarding the coup?

Several people from haven and other regions participated after milo seized control, im not sure how anyone could deny that. It was not a haven wide thing nor did the majority of Havenites participate. Off the top of my head, sharf, questers, oseato, leistung (I am leistung). One is off ns, the other three are on Maredoratica now. None remain in haven now, so claiming haven's "heavy involvement" is a pretty heavy misrepresentation.

[The Batorys]

Does this surprise anyone? The one who presented the argument still can't support his argument. Mall, pls lrn2debate. Don't let someone else do it for you.

Indeed.

He's making the claim, it's on him to supply evidence.

[Mallorea and Riva]

How do you know about the Havenites involved in the raid?

He's posted no evidence, you've posted no evidence. According to the words of Nervun, neither of you are at fault for doing so. You can avoid presenting 'evidence', we can avoid presenting evidence. Done and done.

I linked a nation which was involved, as well as evidence of its involvement. Additionally I showed that the government of Haven was complicit with Milograd's coup via the embassy. We've got someone who claims to be a Haven native admitting involvement, but I don't have a hard connection between the player and Haven yet. Evidence is mounting.

This is incredibly awkward for all of the posters above and below you who are trying to say that Haven was entirely uninvolved. Would you like to explain to the best of your recollection what happened in April of 2013 regarding the coup?

Several people from haven and other regions participated after milo seized control (unilaterally), im not sure how anyone could deny that. It was not a haven wide thing nor did the majority of Havenites participate. Off the top of my head, sharf, questers, oseato, leistung (I am leistung). One is off ns, the other three are on Maredoratica now.

Duly noted. The Delegate of Haven at the time, then knew what was going on and accepted the embassy. Thank you for your information.

[The Batorys]

I'm fully aware that Haven does not want to be raided.

Haven does not wish to participate whatsoever in the raider or defender game. Go play with people that want to play with you. This is a simple message that has been repeated time and again across the RP community, starting even before the proliferation of Reploid Production's I.G.N.O.R.E. weapons of increasingly comical phallacy. It is high time that this message is spread to Gameplay as well.

Go play with people who want to play with you.

Indeed.

I think it is high time that made its way over to Gameplay.

Go fucking play with people who want to play with you, Mall.

[Maltropia]

Additionally I showed that the government of Haven was complicit with Milograd's coup via the embassy.

And everyone explained why that was a stupid piece of evidence.

[The Batorys]

This is incredibly awkward for all of the posters above and below you who are trying to say that Haven was entirely uninvolved. Would you like to explain to the best of your recollection what happened in April of 2013 regarding the coup?

Several people from haven and other regions participated after milo seized control (unilaterally), im not sure how anyone could deny that. It was not a haven wide thing nor did the majority of Havenites participate. Off the top of my head, sharf, questers, oseato, leistung (I am leistung). One is off ns, the other three are on Maredoratica now.

So raiding Haven makes no sense.

[Delmonte]

Additionally I showed that the government of Haven was complicit with Milograd's coup via the embassy.

And everyone explained why that was a stupid piece of evidence.

Thoroughly, irretrievably stupid.

I'm here if you run low on adjectives.

[Oseato]

The Delegate of Haven at the time, then knew what was going on and accepted the embassy. Thank you for your information.

Where does it say that? I've never contended that people didn't participate, only that Haven as a unified bloc never did anything. Chevrokia I believe was (is?) the delegate and was never involved in the actions that you're using for justification. Again, most of the people come from other rping sources like Maredoratica.

[Prekonate]

He's posted no evidence, you've posted no evidence. According to the words of Nervun, neither of you are at fault for doing so. You can avoid presenting 'evidence', we can avoid presenting evidence. Done and done.

I linked a nation which was involved, as well as evidence of its involvement. Additionally I showed that the government of Haven was complicit with Milograd's coup via the embassy. We've got someone who claims to be a Haven native admitting involvement, but I don't have a hard connection between the player and Haven yet. Evidence is mounting.

Several people from haven and other regions participated after milo seized control (unilaterally), im not sure how anyone could deny that. It was not a haven wide thing nor did the majority of Havenites participate. Off the top of my head, sharf, questers, oseato, leistung (I am leistung). One is off ns, the other three are on Maredoratica now.

Duly noted. The Delegate of Haven at the time, then knew what was going on and accepted the embassy. Thank you for your information.

?? Chevrokia was the delegate and had no knowledge of the events. He probably accepted the embassy b/c it was the south pacific...honestly the attempts to "catch" me are just laughable.

[Grand Russian Federation]

Fully opposed. This sets a dangerous precedent for the future, what if people just want to RP in peace? Instead they'll be "liberated" and then forced into the R/D game. Why can't you just leave our RP regions in peace and go raid some other regions?
I don't want to play your game, Mall, and neither do other people. Go find your own mates to have fun with and stop disturbing the big kids.

[The Batorys]

He's posted no evidence, you've posted no evidence. According to the words of Nervun, neither of you are at fault for doing so. You can avoid presenting 'evidence', we can avoid presenting evidence. Done and done.

I linked a nation which was involved, as well as evidence of its involvement. Additionally I showed that the government of Haven was complicit with Milograd's coup via the embassy. We've got someone who claims to be a Haven native admitting involvement, but I don't have a hard connection between the player and Haven yet. Evidence is mounting.

Several people from haven and other regions participated after milo seized control (unilaterally), im not sure how anyone could deny that. It was not a haven wide thing nor did the majority of Havenites participate. Off the top of my head, sharf, questers, oseato, leistung (I am leistung). One is off ns, the other three are on Maredoratica now.

Duly noted. The Delegate of Haven at the time, then knew what was going on and accepted the embassy. Thank you for your information.

That demonstrated nothing.

Everything else you expect us to take you at your word on.

Why the fuck would we believe a single thing you say as to the delegate "knowing" what was going on.

Embassies don't work that way for RP. They're not a "show of support." They're fucking networking.

[Vetok]

He's posted no evidence, you've posted no evidence. According to the words of Nervun, neither of you are at fault for doing so. You can avoid presenting 'evidence', we can avoid presenting evidence. Done and done.

I linked a nation which was involved, as well as evidence of its involvement. Additionally I showed that the government of Haven was complicit with Milograd's coup via the embassy. We've got someone who claims to be a Haven native admitting involvement, but I don't have a hard connection between the player and Haven yet. Evidence is mounting.

I'm sorry, what? You mentioned Crave, I posted he was CTE over seven months ago. You mentioned the embassy, but failed to explain how an embassy is a 'reward' for these ebil Axis of Roleplay people in Haven who helped Milograd. Then you've just said over and over that certain RP'ers here are guilty and trying to cover up their involvement in it all. Then you failed to mention yourself your part in helping Milo coup this TSP thing.

Are you seeing a pattern here?

[The Batorys]

Additionally I showed that the government of Haven was complicit with Milograd's coup via the embassy.

And everyone explained why that was a stupid piece of evidence.

Beat me to it.

[Ambroscus Koth]

And everyone explained why that was a stupid piece of evidence.

Thoroughly, irretrievably stupid.

I'm here if you run low on adjectives.

Those are adverbs

[Northrop-Grumman]

This is incredibly awkward for all of the posters above and below you who are trying to say that Haven was entirely uninvolved. Would you like to explain to the best of your recollection what happened in April of 2013 regarding the coup?

Several people from haven and other regions participated after milo seized control (unilaterally), im not sure how anyone could deny that. It was not a haven wide thing nor did the majority of Havenites participate. Off the top of my head, sharf, questers, oseato, leistung (I am leistung). One is off ns, the other three are on Maredoratica now.

So, if true, basically this makes this whole thing even more pointless considering those people aren't even in Haven anymore. Wow...yes, let's punish people who had nothing to do with it!

[Mallorea and Riva]

I linked a nation which was involved, as well as evidence of its involvement. Additionally I showed that the government of Haven was complicit with Milograd's coup via the embassy. We've got someone who claims to be a Haven native admitting involvement, but I don't have a hard connection between the player and Haven yet. Evidence is mounting. Duly noted. The Delegate of Haven at the time, then knew what was going on and accepted the embassy. Thank you for your information.

?? Chevrokia was the delegate and had no knowledge of the events. He probably accepted the embassy b/c it was the south pacific...honestly the attempts to "catch" me are just laughable.

So the Delegate of the region had no idea that TSP was getting couped, or that Milograd had asked Haven for support, or that he was making WFE concessions? Now that's absurd.

The goalposts on demands for evidence have been getting shifted consistently. I've demonstrated now beyond any reasonable doubt that multiple members of Haven participated at the time, and that the Delegate had no problem expressing approval via an embassy.

I linked a nation which was involved, as well as evidence of its involvement. Additionally I showed that the government of Haven was complicit with Milograd's coup via the embassy. We've got someone who claims to be a Haven native admitting involvement, but I don't have a hard connection between the player and Haven yet. Evidence is mounting.

I'm sorry, what? You mentioned Crave, I posted he was CTE over seven months ago. You mentioned the embassy, but failed to explain how an embassy is a 'reward' for these ebil Axis of Roleplay people in Haven who helped Milograd. Then you've just said over and over that certain RP'ers here are guilty and trying to cover up their involvement in it all. Then you failed to mention yourself your part in helping Milo coup this TSP thing.

Are you seeing a pattern here?

Crave CTE earlier does not mean that the player didn't do anything... That doesn't absolve anyone of their actions. I've explained multiple times how the embassy concept worked, look at the history of TSP and look at the RP regions rewarded with embassies for support. Finally my involvement in the coup merely demonstrates that I know what happened.

[Virana]

No the justification is that the raiders can do more with the region. I say as much in the proposal.

If I said that I think I could do more with your account than you are, could we have your password removed?

Oh wait, things don't work like that. Lack of justification behind this resolution.

[Oseato]

Several people from haven and other regions participated after milo seized control (unilaterally), im not sure how anyone could deny that. It was not a haven wide thing nor did the majority of Havenites participate. Off the top of my head, sharf, questers, oseato, leistung (I am leistung). One is off ns, the other three are on Maredoratica now.

So, if true, basically this makes this whole thing even more pointless considering those people aren't even in Haven anymore. Wow...yes, let's punish people who had nothing to do with it!

Yes. That seems to sum this up perfectly.

[Tiami]

Additionally I showed that the government of Haven was complicit with Milograd's coup via the embassy.

And everyone explained why that was a stupid piece of evidence.

Couldn't have said better myself.

[Ambroscus Koth]

No the justification is that the raiders can do more with the region. I say as much in the proposal.

If I said that I think I could do more with your account than you are, could we have your password removed?

Oh wait, things don't work like that. Lack of justification behind this resolution.

They work like that on the regional level, because the mechanics allow for it.

[The Batorys]

I linked a nation which was involved, as well as evidence of its involvement. Additionally I showed that the government of Haven was complicit with Milograd's coup via the embassy. We've got someone who claims to be a Haven native admitting involvement, but I don't have a hard connection between the player and Haven yet. Evidence is mounting. Duly noted. The Delegate of Haven at the time, then knew what was going on and accepted the embassy. Thank you for your information.

?? Chevrokia was the delegate and had no knowledge of the events. He probably accepted the embassy b/c it was the south pacific...honestly the attempts to "catch" me are just laughable.

Indeed...

It's not some random little tiny region. It's the South fucking Pacific. Lots of people would accept an embassy from it just for that reason alone.

[Mallorea and Riva]

So, if true, basically this makes this whole thing even more pointless considering those people aren't even in Haven anymore. Wow...yes, let's punish people who had nothing to do with it!

Yes. That seems to sum this up perfectly.

Would you prefer it if I removed the lines which refer to TSP in their entirety?

[Oseato]

?? Chevrokia was the delegate and had no knowledge of the events. He probably accepted the embassy b/c it was the south pacific...honestly the attempts to "catch" me are just laughable.

So the Delegate of the region had no idea that TSP was getting couped, or that Milograd had asked Haven for support, or that he was making WFE concessions? Now that's absurd.

If you knew Chevrokia, or literally anyone in Haven, you'd know how things actually worked. Chevrokia knew nothing of what was going on, as I've said multiple times. There simply is no evidence to support your claim that Haven acted in a unified form.