[Submitted] Liberate Haven

[Minnysota]

Gameplayers have argued against this motion.

Gameplayers are part of the behind the scenes organising for what happens post-this shit gets passed.

Let's not generalise some of the people who are going to be working towards saving Haven, k?

All I'm saying is that every argument put forth to support this motion has either been fallacious or so irrational that the people can't even provide an ounce of proof as to why their stance is correct. I'll amend my statement because I do have a few friends that are active in Gameplay.

It really seems like people who support this motion are incapable of providing valid arguments because they spam talking points with no substance to back them up.

[Minnysota]

Hell, I'll throw him a cookie just because he's doing what the lot of you aren't: discussing the actual thread topic.

There's not much to discuss at this point because we've ravaged the already weak argument provided by the OP.

[Katalonua]

Roleplayers viciously assaulted the peaceful region known as The South Pacific, which devastated the Gameplay community. Such events are intolerable and thus we demand retribution. Therefore, I SUPPORT burning the entire RP world to the ground, starting here in Haven. May the RPers pay in blood for their crimes.

........................

Okay, I think even the Raiders and Defenders would tilt their heads a bit at this statement.

Most of the RPers weren't in on that little coup.

Fuck, look me up, my main is Gorgashia.

My Alts are Katalonua (this one), Oroloo, Keldar-9 and Phisych University.

Look them up. None of them have even been in the WA. So, I'm sure you'll believe me when I say: "I never even heard of this coup until right now."

Admittedly, I'm bad at keeping up with current events, but still. I think destroying 'The RP World' because some guys got together to act like a bunch of pricks is unfair.

[Oseato]

The facts of this case are fairly simple. Mallorea has admitted that this is entirely in response to the events in The South Pacific and has sought to punish Haven for its role in those events. However, he has not yet produced any actual evidence of Haven's express support for the coup. Furthermore, Mallorea himself has admitted that he was one of the two people who masterminded the coup.

To support this is to support injustice. If we want justice for what happened in TSP, perhaps we should make a motion to repeal Mallorea's password? or Condemn him for his actions?

Furthermore someone from TSP has already pointed out that the administration of TSP was in favor of amnesty for most people involved in the Coup (with the exception of people like Mallorea and Milograd). This is a complete farce and baseless attack on an established and storied region.

[Nierr]

You are completely ignoring the other major faction there: the leftists. Embassies (which is by your own logic how we define support and being 'in on it') with The Internationale, Antifa and the Red Fleet say it all.


And I'd wager they contributed a damn site more WAs than RPers.

Especially as lots of RPers purposely aren't in the WA.

But Milo's WA RPer 'army' was. They made puppets, joined the WA, posted some damn good propaganda. I don't think anyone who knows about Milo's coup should or would deny any of that.

Still isn't a justification to open Haven up to raiding, nor is it evidence in itself of Havenite involvement.

[Ambroscus Koth]

Roleplayers viciously assaulted the peaceful region known as The South Pacific, which devastated the Gameplay community. Such events are intolerable and thus we demand retribution. Therefore, I SUPPORT burning the entire RP world to the ground, starting here in Haven. May the RPers pay in blood for their crimes.

........................

Okay, I think even the Raiders and Defenders would tilt their heads a bit at this statement.

Most of the RPers weren't in on that little coup.

Fuck, look me up, my main is Gorgashia.

My Alts are Katalonua (this one), Oroloo, Keldar-9 and Phisych University.

Look them up. None of them have even been in the WA. So, I'm sure you'll believe me when I say: "I never even heard of this coup until right now."

Admittedly, I'm bad at keeping up with current events, but still. I think destroying 'The RP World' because some guys got together to act like a bunch of pricks is unfair.

This is about Haven. Not ALL ROLEPLAYERS.

[The Batorys]

... What? This is about Liberating Haven. Feel free to depart though, if you do not wish to debate the issue.

Ironic given that you've not posted a shred of evidence and the one name you gave was someone who CTE'd in December 2013 and only refounded after you posted this proposal.

Admit it! It's total horsecrap! You have no evidence for this whatsoever, and are grasping at imaginary straws.

Yes, the accusations towards Haven are, so far, entirely unsupported by anything that Mall isn't pulling out of his ass.

[Minnysota]

This is about Haven. Not ALL ROLEPLAYERS.

And the arguments provided against Haven were borderline pathetic.

[Katalonua]

........................

Okay, I think even the Raiders and Defenders would tilt their heads a bit at this statement.

Most of the RPers weren't in on that little coup.

Fuck, look me up, my main is Gorgashia.

My Alts are Katalonua (this one), Oroloo, Keldar-9 and Phisych University.

Look them up. None of them have even been in the WA. So, I'm sure you'll believe me when I say: "I never even heard of this coup until right now."

Admittedly, I'm bad at keeping up with current events, but still. I think destroying 'The RP World' because some guys got together to act like a bunch of pricks is unfair.

This is about Haven. Not ALL ROLEPLAYERS.

Yeah... But the guy I'm responding to is saying this should start something that DOES involve all roleplayers.

[Ambroscus Koth]

This is about Haven. Not ALL ROLEPLAYERS.

And the arguments provided against Haven were borderline pathetic.

All I'm saying is that it was pretty unnecessary for him to list off his puppets like it had any bearing on the proposal.

[Lexicor]

Kumbaya my lord... Kumbaya...

[PrussianEmpire]

I have a list of all nations in Haven that declared war on TSP and the GP community. However, it is saved in PDF format and I cannot upload it to this forum. However, I assure you that /at least 3/ nations in Haven participated in this horrible crime against NS.

[Mallorea and Riva]

The facts of this case are fairly simple. Mallorea has admitted that this is entirely in response to the events in The South Pacific and has sought to punish Haven for its role in those events. However, he has not yet produced any actual evidence of Haven's express support for the coup. Furthermore, Mallorea himself has admitted that he was one of the two people who masterminded the coup.

To support this is to support injustice. If we want justice for what happened in TSP, perhaps we should make a motion to repeal Mallorea's password? or Condemn him for his actions?

Furthermore someone from TSP has already pointed out that the administration of TSP was in favor of amnesty for most people involved in the Coup (with the exception of people like Mallorea and Milograd). This is a complete farce and baseless attack on an established and storied region.

Can you show me where I said that this is entirely about Haven's role in TSP? It's entirely about opening up Haven to raiding.

This is about Haven. Not ALL ROLEPLAYERS.

And the arguments provided against Haven were borderline pathetic.

Refusal to accept evidence is not the same as lacking evidence.

[Hittanryan]

I don't know the details about Haven, but I find the generalizations about RP regions disturbing. Not all of us are secret raiders, so don't insinuate that all of us are and should therefore be opened up to the madness of gameplay.

Why shouldn't RP regions with active founders who have absolutely no interest in raiding or defending at all be able to opt out of that side of the game? If this isn't why we play the game, why should we be forced to? We'll just wind up constantly ejecting shitheads who don't even particularly care who they're attacking or why. This is fun...how exactly?

My region has never and will never raid another region. Password protection is fair.

If we were subjected to a SC resolution removing the password on our current region and were subjected to an influx of shitheads, we'd probably abandon that region just so we could found another one with a password. We have no interest in "gameplay" whatsoever, and we never will. We'll resort to any measures available to avoid it.

Let the people who enjoy gameplay enjoy their gameplay, and leave us honest RPers in peace.

[The Batorys]

You're damn skippy I'm angry. The delegates of the GCRs, whatever the hell those are, because I have no idea, can be assured that if they stop fucking with us, I will have absolutely zerofucks to give about raiding and gameplay in general.

Game Created Regions. The Pacific, The North Pacific, The East Pacific, The South Pacific, The West Pacific, The Rejected Realms, Lazarus, Osiris and Balder. So Delegates of said regions.

When we have mods specifically targeting us for harassment, I will not only get angry, but I will advocate for the destruction of the entire gameplay segment of this site, if that's what it takes for people to just leave us alone.

That's not very nice. We love our mods. <3

The quickest way to keep roleplayers from advocatng against the portion of the game that others enjoy is to quit trying to drag us forcefully into it. We don't want to be involved, so quit trying to involve us.

Can't we all just get along?

Don't be shocked when we get extremely pissed off about it. Just as pissed off as the GCRs are liable to get when we advocate getting rid of R/D.

Why would you want to do that? That makes NS fun for those who take part.

"Let's get together and feel all right..."

Why would we want to do that?

Because of the repeated attempts to destroy things we like.

[Mini Miehm]

Good? I guess?

I seriously know absolutely nothing about gameplay. It doesn't interest me, just like roleplay doesn't interest you.

Fair enough.

All i know right now is that a game mod is trolling the roleplay community, and that's seriously uncool. I have no interest in knowing anything about gameplay, because I have no intention of participating. I would appreciate the courtesy of not having to know, just as I don't expect you to know anything about roleplay, because this roleplayer has never even heard of you either.

First, Mall is a forum mod, not a game mod. Those are two very different things. Second, Mods are allowed to act as players. What point would there be in being a mod if you can't play the game? Third, the mods have already ruled that Mall's actions are perfectly legal. He isn't trolling. Fourth, the moderators already knew that Mall was a known raider. And they probably aren't surprised that he's doing something like this as a player. Finally, as has been pointed out above, GP is intricately linked with regions. You can't have one without the other. If you want to avoid being raided, then you should secure your region properly.

Whether the mods break their eternal solidarity or not, he's still trolling. Trolling speaks to motivations, and eve if his PROPOSAL cannot be ruled as trolling, because mod solidarity, his actions since should be. He has no desire but to agitate people who would be happy to be left entirely alone.

We have done the best we can to secure our regions. It's why we have passwords, and now we're being told that our passwords can be stripped at the whim of any old raider who decides our region looks tasty. What more do you want us to do? Just leave us in peace, so we can all get back to doing what we enjoy, with people who share our enjoyment of different aspects of the game. We're not asking for a lot. Can we seriously just have a tiny bit of courtesy between segments of the game?

[Cata Larga]

I have a list of all nations in Haven that declared war on TSP and the GP community. However, it is saved in PDF format and I cannot upload it to this forum. However, I assure you that /at least 3/ nations in Haven participated in this horrible crime against NS.

Best excuse ever. 10/10. Brilliant. Just, just... Brilliant.

Can you please tell me who these nations are? Not even all of them. Just the Haven 3.

[Lexicor]

I have a list of all nations in Haven that declared war on TSP and the GP community. However, it is saved in PDF format and I cannot upload it to this forum. However, I assure you that /at least 3/ nations in Haven participated in this horrible crime against NS.

Convenient that you have evidence but cannot post it. I invoke Habeas Corpus. Your accusations are null and void until evidence is presented to the contrary. Bloody hell.

[Minnysota]

Refusal to accept evidence is not the same as lacking evidence.

No but not providing evidence for a pathetic argument is the same as lacking evidence. That is the case here.

[Nierr]

I have a list of all nations in Haven that declared war on TSP and the GP community. However, it is saved in PDF format and I cannot upload it to this forum. However, I assure you that /at least 3/ nations in Haven participated in this horrible crime against NS.

Can you go back to not winning elections in TEP so that people with actual contributions can actually contribute?

Please?

[Arthurista]

You have our support for this, regions should not be allowed to stagnate in such a slow heat-death-of-the-universe sort of manner. We will provide any support should it be deemed needed for us to do so.

Then let them hide!

Sounds dreadfully boring to me. This particular group has no right to hide.

The above demonstrate the pernicious and spiteful psychology behind the motion. It is nothing more than an attempt by raiders to unilaterally impose their mode of participating in NS on a community which has absolutely zero interest in playing their game.

An RPing group is more than a bunch of people who write collaborative fiction. It is a community of individuals who wish to create a rich, intertwined history. It is a joint effort in creativity and imagination, arts which seem to be rather incomprehensible to some.

Raiding an inactive RPing region with as splendid a history as Haven, just because 'inactivity is boring', is akin to a Neanderthal smashing up the Venus de Milo because he feels it's more fun than admiring it for its artistry. He could scarcely comprehend the intellect that went into the statue, so he interacts with it at a level he could operate on.

In conclusion, and echoing Itailia above, as an RPer I want nothing to do with that morass of flaming, trolling and low-brow abuse and strongly protest this attempt to expose our regions to it. Either present us with incontrovertible evidence that Haven played an instrumental part in the raid (rather than just circumstantial speculation based on the existence of embassies or something), or leave us the hell alone.

[Vetok]

This is about Haven. Not ALL ROLEPLAYERS.

And the arguments provided against Haven were borderline pathetic.

OBJECTION! There haven't been any arguments against Haven presented at all.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

I have a list of all nations in Haven that declared war on TSP and the GP community. However, it is saved in PDF format and I cannot upload it to this forum. However, I assure you that /at least 3/ nations in Haven participated in this horrible crime against NS.

Three. Out of a population of how many?

[Voltrovia]

I have a list of all nations in Haven that declared war on TSP and the GP community. However, it is saved in PDF format and I cannot upload it to this forum. However, I assure you that /at least 3/ nations in Haven participated in this horrible crime against NS.

Convenient that you have evidence but cannot post it. I invoke Habeas Corpus. Your accusations are null and void until evidence is presented to the contrary. Bloody hell.

Can the written contents (if any) of the PDF be copied and pasted into a post?

[Minnysota]

Can you show me where I said that this is entirely about Haven's role in TSP? It's entirely about opening up Haven to raiding.

You're moving the goalposts, now. I'm being honest when I say I think you need to learn how to debate and provide a legitimate argument before starting something like this.