[Submitted] Liberate Haven

[Mallorea and Riva]

Here's a draft that I've been kicking around in my head for awhile. I'm open to all suggestions for improvement, but obviously I will not be abandoning the effort and I do not consider recommendations to scrap this idea entirely as a suggestion for improvement.

Liberate Haven

The Security Council,

Aware that the region Haven has hidden behind a password for a decade,

Disappointed that many regions have taken to cowering behind passwords for protection for long durations rather than acting to strengthen themselves,

Confident that a number of raiding organizations could utilize the region for far more interesting things than the current residents are choosing to,

Dismissing the argument that peaceful regions such as Haven should not be attacked by noting that such "peaceful regions" were heavily involved in the 2013 coup of The South Pacific.

Believing that the activity created by such invasions will outweigh any potential moral evils associated with stripping the region of its protection,

Hoping that this Liberation will spur activity in similarly protected regions lest they meet the same fate,

Hereby Liberates Haven

I'm not familiar with exactly when Haven passworded itself, so if that four year figure needs adjusting one way or the other that information would be appreciated.

Evidence of claims: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=303025&p=20782239#p20782239 Haven native admits Haven involvement
The Haven regional history displays an embassy which lasted only as long as the coup did. Those embassies were used to connect regions which had provided support for Milograd's coup of TSP.

[Venico]

Full support, can help campaign if needed.

[Union of Kiwi Socialists]

Very interesting. I can see your side of the argument with removing the password, but this may cause other password-protected regions to fear for their own safety.

[Venico]

Very interesting. I can see your side of the argument with removing the password, but this may cause other password-protected regions to fear for their own safety.

And why shouldn't they?

[Mallorea and Riva]

Very interesting. I can see your side of the argument with removing the password, but this may cause other password-protected regions to fear for their own safety.

In which case they may very well start actively recruiting and gaining members for strength rather than sitting on the region names rotting away like Haven has.

[Union of Kiwi Socialists]

Very interesting. I can see your side of the argument with removing the password, but this may cause other password-protected regions to fear for their own safety.

In which case they may very well start actively recruiting and gaining members for strength rather than sitting on the region names rotting away like Haven has.

Fair enough, it should be up to the founder to provide safety for their region, and upon their deletion for inactivity, it must become the responsibility of the Delegate.

[Estenia]

I support it.

[Mallorea and Riva]

In which case they may very well start actively recruiting and gaining members for strength rather than sitting on the region names rotting away like Haven has.

Fair enough, it should be up to the founder to provide safety for their region, and upon their deletion for inactivity, it must become the responsibility of the Delegate.

Indeed. In haven's case there is no founder, so the Delegate (or at least the natives as a whole) are indeed responsible for ensuring activity.

[Union of Kiwi Socialists]

Then I'm sure my region's delegate (and myself if it gets the support to reach the WA debating floor) will support this.

[Mallorea and Riva]

I appreciate all the support that this has so far received. I will obviously be drafting it for a few days before submitting so any criticisms of content or style are welcome.

[Ramaeus]

You make a very persuasive case, Mall.

[Canton Empire]

Yes, and after this "liberation" is voted on, you can legalize bullying.

[Mallorea and Riva]

:mad: Yes, and after this "liberation" is voted on, you can legalize bullying.

If you're implying that I am in some way violating the rules please take the accusations to the Moderation forum. If you're stating that raiding is illegal bullying you are simply incorrect. Why you put "liberation" in quotes, I'll never know.

[New Tsavon]

:mad: Yes, and after this "liberation" is voted on, you can legalize bullying.

If you're implying that I am in some way violating the rules please take the accusations to the Moderation forum. If you're stating that raiding is illegal bullying you are simply incorrect. Why you put "liberation" in quotes, I'll never know.

Possibly because you're opening a region, that clearly has no interest in such things, to raiding.

[Mallorea and Riva]

If you're implying that I am in some way violating the rules please take the accusations to the Moderation forum. If you're stating that raiding is illegal bullying you are simply incorrect. Why you put "liberation" in quotes, I'll never know.

Possibly because you're opening a region, that clearly has no interest in such things, to raiding.

They seemed to have an interest in it when it was TSP getting wrecked and not them.

[New Tsavon]

Possibly because you're opening a region, that clearly has no interest in such things, to raiding.

They seemed to have an interest in it when it was TSP getting wrecked and not them.

I'm willing to believe they have since changed their minds.

[Venico]

If you're implying that I am in some way violating the rules please take the accusations to the Moderation forum. If you're stating that raiding is illegal bullying you are simply incorrect. Why you put "liberation" in quotes, I'll never know.

Possibly because you're opening a region, that clearly has no interest in such things, to raiding.

And we've done the same thing to Nazi Europe in the past. Opening up a region that is cowardly hiding behind a password is within this council's interest.

[Mallorea and Riva]

They seemed to have an interest in it when it was TSP getting wrecked and not them.

I'm willing to believe they have since changed their minds.

"We're on offense, I like this game it's great!"
"We're on defense... I don't want to play anymore this game isn't fair no way"

See the issue there?

[Cormac A Stark]

And we've done the same thing to Nazi Europe in the past. Opening up a region that is cowardly hiding behind a password is within this council's interest.

Nazi Europe is Nazi Europe. The Security Council also pretty decisively reversed course on that and repudiated its earlier decision.

Opposed. I'm usually all for messing with the Security Council, but this is too far even for me. Natives who responsibly secure their regions should be left alone; there are plenty who haven't out there.

[Mallorea and Riva]

And we've done the same thing to Nazi Europe in the past. Opening up a region that is cowardly hiding behind a password is within this council's interest.

Nazi Europe is Nazi Europe. The Security Council also pretty decisively reversed course on that and repudiated its earlier decision.

Opposed. I'm usually all for messing with the Security Council, but this is too far even for me. Natives who responsibly secure their regions should be left alone; there are plenty who haven't out there.

Those who secure their region and then launch attacks at others don't deserve the protection of the SC. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

[Canton Empire]

:mad: Yes, and after this "liberation" is voted on, you can legalize bullying.

If you're implying that I am in some way violating the rules please take the accusations to the Moderation forum. If you're stating that raiding is illegal bullying you are simply incorrect. Why you put "liberation" in quotes, I'll never know.

I put liberation in quotes because its a typical raider move to drag a region into a conflict in which it doesnt want to be involved in. So now do know.
DO NOT SAY YES TO THIS LEGALIZED TYRNNY!

[Mallorea and Riva]

If you're implying that I am in some way violating the rules please take the accusations to the Moderation forum. If you're stating that raiding is illegal bullying you are simply incorrect. Why you put "liberation" in quotes, I'll never know.

I put liberation in quotes because its a typical raider move to drag a region into a conflict in which it doesnt want to be involved in. So now do know.
DO NOT SAY YES TO THIS LEGALIZED TYRNNY!

They don't have a problem being involved when it's them being the aggressors. It's simply incorrect to say that they are innocent, as I outlined in the draft which I suspect you have not fully read.

[Cormac A Stark]

Those who secure their region and then launch attacks at others don't deserve the protection of the SC. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of those who attacked The South Pacific are hidden behind Founders, which is even more cowardly still than being hidden behind a password.

People like you for example.

I see no reason to target Haven when other regions that did the same thing are protected from retaliation. I'm particularly not persuaded by this argument when it comes from you, given that you shared the lead in the coup of The South Pacific.

[Venico]

Cormac, my point was there is precedent to open up a desirable nut for the Security Council to feast on. And while it may be cowardly in your eyes to hide behind a founder, the SC can't do anything about that. It can however remove Haven's password and allow the righteous fires of justice rage through its fields.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Those who secure their region and then launch attacks at others don't deserve the protection of the SC. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of those who attacked The South Pacific are hidden behind Founders, which is even more cowardly still than being hidden behind a password.

People like you for example.

I see no reason to target Haven when other regions that did the same thing are protected from retaliation. I'm particularly not persuaded by this argument when it comes from you, given that you shared the lead in the coup of The South Pacific.

If the day comes that The Black Hawks goes founderless and you choose to enact your revenge I'll keep this in mind. Until then, as Venico said, simply because we cannot hit *all* of the transgressors doesn't mean that we can't hit some of them.