NATION

PASSWORD

[Submitted] Liberate Haven

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.
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Mallorea and Riva
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[Submitted] Liberate Haven

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:05 pm

Here's a draft that I've been kicking around in my head for awhile. I'm open to all suggestions for improvement, but obviously I will not be abandoning the effort and I do not consider recommendations to scrap this idea entirely as a suggestion for improvement.
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Liberate Haven


The Security Council,

Aware that the region Haven has hidden behind a password for a decade,

Disappointed that many regions have taken to cowering behind passwords for protection for long durations rather than acting to strengthen themselves,

Confident that a number of raiding organizations could utilize the region for far more interesting things than the current residents are choosing to,

Dismissing the argument that peaceful regions such as Haven should not be attacked by noting that such "peaceful regions" were heavily involved in the 2013 coup of The South Pacific.

Believing that the activity created by such invasions will outweigh any potential moral evils associated with stripping the region of its protection,

Hoping that this Liberation will spur activity in similarly protected regions lest they meet the same fate,

Hereby Liberates Haven


I'm not familiar with exactly when Haven passworded itself, so if that four year figure needs adjusting one way or the other that information would be appreciated.

Evidence of claims: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=303025&p=20782239#p20782239 Haven native admits Haven involvement
The Haven regional history displays an embassy which lasted only as long as the coup did. Those embassies were used to connect regions which had provided support for Milograd's coup of TSP.
Last edited by Mallorea and Riva on Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:10 am, edited 4 times in total.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: "I don't think chatting with someone over the Internet about casual topics falls under faithful or unfaithful. :<"

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Venico
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Postby Venico » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:07 pm

Full support, can help campaign if needed.
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I only regret that I have but one WA to give for my region
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Union of Kiwi Socialists
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Postby Union of Kiwi Socialists » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:13 pm

Very interesting. I can see your side of the argument with removing the password, but this may cause other password-protected regions to fear for their own safety.

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Venico
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Postby Venico » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:15 pm

Union of Kiwi Socialists wrote:Very interesting. I can see your side of the argument with removing the password, but this may cause other password-protected regions to fear for their own safety.


And why shouldn't they?
Priest of Raider Unity!

I only regret that I have but one WA to give for my region
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Mallorea and Riva
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Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:15 pm

Union of Kiwi Socialists wrote:Very interesting. I can see your side of the argument with removing the password, but this may cause other password-protected regions to fear for their own safety.

In which case they may very well start actively recruiting and gaining members for strength rather than sitting on the region names rotting away like Haven has.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: "I don't think chatting with someone over the Internet about casual topics falls under faithful or unfaithful. :<"

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Union of Kiwi Socialists
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Postby Union of Kiwi Socialists » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:16 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:
Union of Kiwi Socialists wrote:Very interesting. I can see your side of the argument with removing the password, but this may cause other password-protected regions to fear for their own safety.

In which case they may very well start actively recruiting and gaining members for strength rather than sitting on the region names rotting away like Haven has.


Fair enough, it should be up to the founder to provide safety for their region, and upon their deletion for inactivity, it must become the responsibility of the Delegate.

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Estenia
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Postby Estenia » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:17 pm

I support it.
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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:17 pm

Union of Kiwi Socialists wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:In which case they may very well start actively recruiting and gaining members for strength rather than sitting on the region names rotting away like Haven has.


Fair enough, it should be up to the founder to provide safety for their region, and upon their deletion for inactivity, it must become the responsibility of the Delegate.

Indeed. In haven's case there is no founder, so the Delegate (or at least the natives as a whole) are indeed responsible for ensuring activity.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: "I don't think chatting with someone over the Internet about casual topics falls under faithful or unfaithful. :<"

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Union of Kiwi Socialists
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Postby Union of Kiwi Socialists » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:18 pm

Then I'm sure my region's delegate (and myself if it gets the support to reach the WA debating floor) will support this.

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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:20 pm

I appreciate all the support that this has so far received. I will obviously be drafting it for a few days before submitting so any criticisms of content or style are welcome.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: "I don't think chatting with someone over the Internet about casual topics falls under faithful or unfaithful. :<"

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Ramaeus
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Postby Ramaeus » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:21 pm

You make a very persuasive case, Mall.
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Canton Empire
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Postby Canton Empire » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:22 pm

:mad: Yes, and after this "liberation" is voted on, you can legalize bullying.
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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:24 pm

Canton Empire wrote::mad: Yes, and after this "liberation" is voted on, you can legalize bullying.

If you're implying that I am in some way violating the rules please take the accusations to the Moderation forum. If you're stating that raiding is illegal bullying you are simply incorrect. Why you put "liberation" in quotes, I'll never know.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: "I don't think chatting with someone over the Internet about casual topics falls under faithful or unfaithful. :<"

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New Tsavon
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Postby New Tsavon » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:28 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:
Canton Empire wrote::mad: Yes, and after this "liberation" is voted on, you can legalize bullying.

If you're implying that I am in some way violating the rules please take the accusations to the Moderation forum. If you're stating that raiding is illegal bullying you are simply incorrect. Why you put "liberation" in quotes, I'll never know.

Possibly because you're opening a region, that clearly has no interest in such things, to raiding.
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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:29 pm

New Tsavon wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:If you're implying that I am in some way violating the rules please take the accusations to the Moderation forum. If you're stating that raiding is illegal bullying you are simply incorrect. Why you put "liberation" in quotes, I'll never know.

Possibly because you're opening a region, that clearly has no interest in such things, to raiding.

They seemed to have an interest in it when it was TSP getting wrecked and not them.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: "I don't think chatting with someone over the Internet about casual topics falls under faithful or unfaithful. :<"

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New Tsavon
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Postby New Tsavon » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:30 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:
New Tsavon wrote:Possibly because you're opening a region, that clearly has no interest in such things, to raiding.

They seemed to have an interest in it when it was TSP getting wrecked and not them.

I'm willing to believe they have since changed their minds.
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Venico
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Postby Venico » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:30 pm

New Tsavon wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:If you're implying that I am in some way violating the rules please take the accusations to the Moderation forum. If you're stating that raiding is illegal bullying you are simply incorrect. Why you put "liberation" in quotes, I'll never know.

Possibly because you're opening a region, that clearly has no interest in such things, to raiding.


And we've done the same thing to Nazi Europe in the past. Opening up a region that is cowardly hiding behind a password is within this council's interest.
Priest of Raider Unity!

I only regret that I have but one WA to give for my region
[21:46] <+Xoriet> How can you resist Ven? It's impossible!

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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:31 pm

New Tsavon wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:They seemed to have an interest in it when it was TSP getting wrecked and not them.

I'm willing to believe they have since changed their minds.

"We're on offense, I like this game it's great!"
"We're on defense... I don't want to play anymore this game isn't fair no way"

See the issue there?
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: "I don't think chatting with someone over the Internet about casual topics falls under faithful or unfaithful. :<"

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Cormac A Stark
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Postby Cormac A Stark » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:34 pm

Venico wrote:And we've done the same thing to Nazi Europe in the past. Opening up a region that is cowardly hiding behind a password is within this council's interest.

Nazi Europe is Nazi Europe. The Security Council also pretty decisively reversed course on that and repudiated its earlier decision.

Opposed. I'm usually all for messing with the Security Council, but this is too far even for me. Natives who responsibly secure their regions should be left alone; there are plenty who haven't out there.

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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:35 pm

Cormac A Stark wrote:
Venico wrote:And we've done the same thing to Nazi Europe in the past. Opening up a region that is cowardly hiding behind a password is within this council's interest.

Nazi Europe is Nazi Europe. The Security Council also pretty decisively reversed course on that and repudiated its earlier decision.

Opposed. I'm usually all for messing with the Security Council, but this is too far even for me. Natives who responsibly secure their regions should be left alone; there are plenty who haven't out there.

Those who secure their region and then launch attacks at others don't deserve the protection of the SC. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: "I don't think chatting with someone over the Internet about casual topics falls under faithful or unfaithful. :<"

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Canton Empire
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Postby Canton Empire » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:38 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:
Canton Empire wrote::mad: Yes, and after this "liberation" is voted on, you can legalize bullying.

If you're implying that I am in some way violating the rules please take the accusations to the Moderation forum. If you're stating that raiding is illegal bullying you are simply incorrect. Why you put "liberation" in quotes, I'll never know.

I put liberation in quotes because its a typical raider move to drag a region into a conflict in which it doesnt want to be involved in. So now do know.
DO NOT SAY YES TO THIS LEGALIZED TYRNNY!
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Mallorea and Riva
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Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:40 pm

Canton Empire wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:If you're implying that I am in some way violating the rules please take the accusations to the Moderation forum. If you're stating that raiding is illegal bullying you are simply incorrect. Why you put "liberation" in quotes, I'll never know.

I put liberation in quotes because its a typical raider move to drag a region into a conflict in which it doesnt want to be involved in. So now do know.
DO NOT SAY YES TO THIS LEGALIZED TYRNNY!

They don't have a problem being involved when it's them being the aggressors. It's simply incorrect to say that they are innocent, as I outlined in the draft which I suspect you have not fully read.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: "I don't think chatting with someone over the Internet about casual topics falls under faithful or unfaithful. :<"

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Cormac A Stark
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Postby Cormac A Stark » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:40 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:Those who secure their region and then launch attacks at others don't deserve the protection of the SC. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of those who attacked The South Pacific are hidden behind Founders, which is even more cowardly still than being hidden behind a password.

People like you for example.

I see no reason to target Haven when other regions that did the same thing are protected from retaliation. I'm particularly not persuaded by this argument when it comes from you, given that you shared the lead in the coup of The South Pacific.

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Venico
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Postby Venico » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:42 pm

Cormac, my point was there is precedent to open up a desirable nut for the Security Council to feast on. And while it may be cowardly in your eyes to hide behind a founder, the SC can't do anything about that. It can however remove Haven's password and allow the righteous fires of justice rage through its fields.
Priest of Raider Unity!

I only regret that I have but one WA to give for my region
[21:46] <+Xoriet> How can you resist Ven? It's impossible!

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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:44 pm

Cormac A Stark wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:Those who secure their region and then launch attacks at others don't deserve the protection of the SC. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of those who attacked The South Pacific are hidden behind Founders, which is even more cowardly still than being hidden behind a password.

People like you for example.

I see no reason to target Haven when other regions that did the same thing are protected from retaliation. I'm particularly not persuaded by this argument when it comes from you, given that you shared the lead in the coup of The South Pacific.

If the day comes that The Black Hawks goes founderless and you choose to enact your revenge I'll keep this in mind. Until then, as Venico said, simply because we cannot hit *all* of the transgressors doesn't mean that we can't hit some of them.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: "I don't think chatting with someone over the Internet about casual topics falls under faithful or unfaithful. :<"

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