[SUBMITTED] Condemn Antifa

[Poniard]

People, please read this: This player is no longer a Nazi, and if they are, so what? It is a fact that Antifa has target not only Nazis, fascists, and other ideologies that could be considered "hateful," but it has also target capitalist regions, Japanese regions if I'm not mistaken, and other right-winged groups. This group isn't living up to their good intentions and deserves a condemning for it. We get it, the Greater German Reich is bad, but the focus here is Antifa and why it should or shouldn't be condemned. Right now, the reasoning is mainly against them, and Poniard sides with those reasons.

ANTIFA is the newspaper that everyone should read and feel good knowing that people are out there fighting fascism on and off line. And if anyone looks at the long list of nazi and fascist regions that are being shutdown, then one will see that we as anti-fascist fighters are living up to our good intentions.

Furthermore, to protect hateful ideologies under the guise of 'free speech' is a gross misunderstanding of freedom and everyone knows it.

(OOC: Familiar flag, familiar region, and familiar support of ANTIFA. I think we've already met before, and I surmise the same vice versa on NationStates relating to the same debate of condemning the same group. I'd thought it would be best to point out the coincidences, in case it is all true and somehow relevant.)

Moving on though: You seem to have left out ANTIFA has also targeted capitalist regions along with various others with little to no intentions of violence or hate. Also people do have a right to freedom of speech even when it is a bad form of speech. Other people also have the right in ignoring or shunning such speech by pointing out how wrong it is. Normally we would congratulate such groups for targeting Nazis, and to some extent fascism depending on their foreign policies. ANTIFA however goes so far to target capitalist regions as well along with other right-winged regions. If there is a reason for this, then it better be pointed out because this is quite frankly unacceptable to have capitalists mixed in with fascism and Nazism.

[Vladisvok Destino]

ANTIFA is the newspaper that everyone should read and feel good knowing that people are out there fighting fascism on and off line. And if anyone looks at the long list of nazi and fascist regions that are being shutdown, then one will see that we as anti-fascist fighters are living up to our good intentions.

Furthermore, to protect hateful ideologies under the guise of 'free speech' is a gross misunderstanding of freedom and everyone knows it.

ANTIFA is a poor joke and everyone should feel bad that they're in this game. It's quite funny to see you talk about hateful ideologies when that's exactly what ANTIFA stand for.

[Nomadic Beings]

ANTIFA is the newspaper that everyone should read and feel good knowing that people are out there fighting fascism on and off line. And if anyone looks at the long list of nazi and fascist regions that are being shutdown, then one will see that we as anti-fascist fighters are living up to our good intentions.

Furthermore, to protect hateful ideologies under the guise of 'free speech' is a gross misunderstanding of freedom and everyone knows it.

(OOC: Familiar flag, familiar region, and familiar support of ANTIFA. I think we've already met before, and I surmise the same vice versa on NationStates relating to the same debate of condemning the same group. I'd thought it would be best to point out the coincidences, in case it is all true and somehow relevant.)

Moving on though: You seem to have left out ANTIFA has also targeted capitalist regions along with various others with little to no intentions of violence or hate. Also people do have a right to freedom of speech even when it is a bad form of speech. Other people also have the right in ignoring or shunning such speech by pointing out how wrong it is. Normally we would congratulate such groups for targeting Nazis, and to some extent fascism depending on their foreign policies. ANTIFA however goes so far to target capitalist regions as well along with other right-winged regions. If there is a reason for this, then it better be pointed out because this is quite frankly unacceptable to have capitalists mixed in with fascism and Nazism.

your OOC: is irrelevant, unless you are seeking an emotive discussion, ofc.


Now: If this freedom you say should be allotted to hate groups, then why is the swazi flag banned? Moreover, why is the flag banned, yet, the ideology is allowed to continue? The answer is people are confused. They know that the ideology should be wiped from the face of the earth, yet, they are tricked by those that have interests in maintaining ideologies of exploitation and hate, to believe they are up holding 'freedom,' which is glaringly obvious that no such ideology has anything to do with freedom.

It is also the case that most capitalists and right-wingers (there are some capitalist that have aided in 'ANTIFA') will side with fascism etc, because the 'left' posses a threat to their ideology of on going exploitation. Therefore, often times some capitalists will harbor fascists in their regions and if and when that is the case, then such intentions are clear.


What are those regions you speak of, again?


TRF/SRBT

[Proletaurus]

Ok, Folks. If someone good and experienced WA-SC Proposal maker could boil some coffee, sit down and write Condemnation Draft which would be good written, based on facts, rational thinking without Fascist counter-propaganda from perspectives of freedom of speech, meanwhile respecting players rights to found new player founded regions... that would make a Day!

Notes and tasks for making good Condemnation-Draft

- One wing of 'Antifa' doesn't have to nescessary agree with other wing in some particular actions taken.
- Make research and update that ancient '300 regions' count as it is propably far over 600 currenly.
- Holocaust really happened and concentration camps were real. Quantanamo still exists.
- Region Antifa is poorly administered memorial region, not Organisation itself
- Anti-fascist Forces were in action long before region Antifa was even founded, and will be there after. However called.
- Keeping in their minds that: "If something stinks like Nazi, it is Nazi".
- Showing exact examples where forces of antifa destroyed living and active community. (Yeh. Nationalist Union is propably best if not only examble in this matter, and it was then and it is now clear what they represent)
- 'Bad-jokes' are not condemn-worthy. Are they?
- Any Condemnation drafts which not include link/name of to The MT Army cannot be considered to been made seriously.
- Capitalisim, Clapitalims[/region], Calapalism[/region] etc. cannot be used as examples how hateful Antifa could be.
- Comrade YKO was deleted by mods because he did what was right thing to do. He was extremely good what he was doing.
- 'Antifa' has made dozens of defensive operations to secure various regions being now trophies of NE, GGR & ilks...
- 'Antifa' has attacked by defenders when deployed to the defense of aforementioned regions.
- Anti-fascists are against Fascists, Nazis, Far-right wingers, racial supprematists, religious fanatics, inhumane corporate profeteering, etc. moral decay in The Game and out of it.

Thank you.

P.

[Nomadic Beings]

I'm out of coffee, Comrade P. xD

How about commending all the groups involved in Anti-Fascist Action

[Vladisvok Destino]

How about commending all the groups involved in Anti-Fascist Action

Generally people tend to avoid commending the worthless, but if you really want to discuss it I'm sure you're free to start your own topic on the matter.

[Bagong Hukbong Bayan]

The security council,

FURTHER UNDERSTANDING that this is a crime against freedom of expression, a fundamental right in the eyes of many developed nations;

Fascists complaining about infringement of rights. These pearls have been clutched.

[Nomadic Beings]

hahahahahahahahaah

[Dolgavakia]

On Antifa attacking non-fascist regions, like capitalist and Japanese-themed regions: I only know of a few (as in maybe three or four at most) non-fascist capitalist regions that The Red Fleet has attacked, not Antifa as a whole. And Tokyo had been under the control of Nazis before Antifa members took it. Now, as I understand it, it is a region open to all but fascists. How is that being anti-Japanese?

[Syxk]

Fascists complaining about infringement of rights. These pearls have been clutched.

I'm not a fascist, it is inherently clear I'm not anymore.

and that roleplay nation was just that, a roleplay nation.

Get your facts right.

[Nomadic Beings]

Fascists complaining about infringement of rights. These pearls have been clutched.

I'm not a fascist, it is inherently clear I'm not anymore.

and that roleplay nation was just that, a roleplay nation.

Get your facts right.

I can see role playing the 'bad guy' if it were some fantasy based game, but you chose to role play as a supporter for a party that's responsible for the holocaust and countless other atrocities against humanity. Why is this? Don't answer....so, let me get this "right," we are to believe that since you answered a few issues, you are no longer a fascist or some one that has a fetish for such ideas....yeah right hahahahaahaah

so, before you start spouting "get your facts right" why don't you take a moment and reflect

[Dolgavakia]

In his defense, he did make a thread revealing his non-Nazi beliefs and apologizing for his very realistic roleplaying.

[Poniard]

(Reads the title.)

How did this get submitted? Isn't there suppose to be a rather lengthy discussion over any errors with this before sending it in?

[Syxk]

(Reads the title.)

How did this get submitted? Isn't there suppose to be a rather lengthy discussion over any errors with this before sending it in?

yeah, I edited the slight errors that actually been reported

[Nomadic Beings]

In his defense, he did make a thread revealing his non-Nazi beliefs and apologizing for his very realistic roleplaying.

That's not a defense, nor is it an apology.

1) Your defense just highlights the issues I had pointed out.

2) An apology requires action, not just answering a few issues and minimal transcription.

I.e. "Hey guys I'm sorry I played an advocate of the holocaust, you know, it was just a game. Now, I'm not like that anymore. Oh, yeah and I would like to condemn a non-region ('ANTIFA' is not a centralized organization) for their steadfast antifascist stance. Everything is good, right?" = not an apology.

This isn't an apology and your defense begs a few questions; ones that I have already asked.

[Dolgavakia]

Personally I believe him when he says he's not a Nazi. But otherwise we appear to agree.
And I do remember something about still having doubts about the Holocaust... can't confirm that though.

[Nomadic Beings]

how's the condemnation going?

[Slafstopia]

Perhaps you should check on it yourself, rather than spamming?

I'd say it's going terribly, since it has 16 hours to get 53 approvals.

[Nomadic Beings]

Spamming?

What I have found in the SC is that people love to use terms like "flaming" "spamming" etc.

For what? This condemnation is a joke, everyone knows it, nothing wrong with making it obvious.

[Slafstopia]

Sorry, I couldn't detect your sarcasm. Gaming has made me insane.

Anyway, since I can't just leave this useless post here, I believe that everything substantial about this proposal has been logically countered. So, not gonna happen.

Hooray!

[Poniard]

Although Poniard agrees with the need for condemning Antifa still, we do not see how this proposal will pass in the current state. We feel this proposal is either missing information or the current information is lacking further detail. Does that mean we should commend Antifa instead? Of course not. We're just thinking now that a more proper condemning has not been written yet.

In addition despite the writer changing their ways, some groups don't seem to recognize this and it seems any further efforts on their parts to condemn them will only lead to further ridicule on the writer. A more credible writer will have to arrive to actually make the condemning of Antifa a reality. Unless anything else is needing to be stated, the diplomats of Poniard are pretty much done here.

[Communist Destroyer]

OOC: you so called antifa are the real fascists, believe it or not and every time a porposal like this comes up your only means of counter argument is attacks against ones charicature.

grow up, commies. you collapsed under your own fail whilst National Socialism had to be ganged up on by cowards.

thats the real crime

[The North Polish Union]

Wow. And this proposal was dead too...

And I'm pretty sure the SC is OOC (except maybe in the case of condemnations for RP actions, which this isn't).

[Abacathea]

Wow. And this proposal was dead too...

And I'm pretty sure the SC is OOC (except maybe in the case of condemnations for RP actions, which this isn't).

It can go either way, I've seen some fantastic IC posts on here.

[Sedgistan]

Communist Destroyer - that's the second SC thread you've gravedug today to post a rant. *** Warned. ***