SUBMITTED: Liberate Feudal Japan

[Follas-2]

This draft is ridiculous. I first joined whe "Liberate Feudal Japan" was at the vote. I then witnessed "REPEAL Liberate Feudal Japan" and here again I see "Liberate Feudal Japan".

This is exactly like the "Condemn Grub"/"Condemn Daynor" situation. It mainly occurs because some person decides to get involved in breaking the 4th wall.

You may call this Anti-WA spam, but it is just fact. The WA could be a decent organisation had it not become embroiled in game mechanics not based on RP.

[Topid]

This is exactly like the "Condemn Grub"/"Condemn Daynor" situation. It mainly occurs because some person decides to get involved in breaking the 4th wall.

There is no fourth wall in the SC. It is an OOC organization. You cannot, with a few exceptions for the RP community, commend or condemn nations OOC.

Our chamber is triangular; the fourth wall does not exist. We are governed by different rules than the GA.

[Janet Dobinson]

So griefing is OK as long as it's committed by people you approve of?

I don't see how the native delegate of a region, kicking out a few nations to assist in native approved re-founding can be seen as griefing.

So in other words, yes.

Without the words I striked you would be kicking and screaming, slamming your fists on the table, crying at the top of your lungs. But with the words I striked, fine.

You have hit the nail on the head there.

[Sedgistan]

Except that The KoZ is re-founding with the permission of the natives of Feudal Japan (do visit their forum if you don't believe me). He simply cleared out a few defender puppets/invader sleepers.

Again, please explain your motives. You wouldn't happen to be wanting to get the region un-passworded, so that you could invade it? Why not submit this proposal with your main nation, and then we can really judge what you want to achieve here.

[Janet Dobinson]

Right this is my second rough draft, to keep everyone abreast. More criticisms welcome (if needed!)

The Security Council,

RECOGNIZING that the region of Feudal Japan was invaded on October 1st, 2009;

RECALLING that SC#7 notes "..forces of the FRA, TITO, Equilism, Texas, Europeia, 00000 A World Power, Yggdrasil, The United Kingdom, Crusaders of Justice, Liberty Alliance, Antarctica, and Royal Federation of Nations ... neutraliz[ed] the act of invasion perpetrated by Catlandatopia, Fox Rite, The Cathedral, and Blades of Conquest upon the region Feudal Japan as it was cited in .. [retired] resolution [SC#6]";

NOTING that this second invasion took opportune advantage of the very ‘free-entry’ mandated by resolution SC#6 and the removal of the secret password this entailed;

AWARE that this has once again brought about the regrettable imposition of another secret password and the systematic ejection of resident nations -- nations which had also taken advantage of the ‘free-entry’ initially accorded them by the World Assembly;

DISAPPOINTED that the current delegate of Feudal Japan, The Koz, after being granted the ability to re-institute the password through the retiring of SC#6, has subsequently exploited this power to either eject or ban and eject a large number of nations, including...Yamamoto Kansuke, Mandy Mandelson, The Imperial Fists, Ern Nest, Kanbei, Feudal Japan Girl, Utilax, Bolivarian Alternative, Jambudvipan Envoy XIV, Sunset Bay, The Game, 3blindmice, Active Camel, Enterprise B, Workshop 101;

REALIZING that the size of the region has decreased by 45% since the twenty-first day of The Koz’s delegacy;

UNDERSTANDING that the ability to install a password in the region was initially sequestered to prevent such acts, acts which the wider community have generally found to be distasteful and regressive;

SATISFIED that these ejections are designed to increase the delegate’s influence level, as the regional WFE explicitly admits: “All non-WA nations: please LEAVE the region in order to support the delegate's influence level.";

REMEMBERING that retired resolution SC#6 argued that the World Assembly was disappointed by "the region's current occupiers [who had] left the region to rot and degrade into a mockery of its former self - with no indication of any community activity surviving the decay" -- which concludes that the proposal was indeed a pro-community document;

FURTHER NOTING that in this instance the initial liberation of Feudal Japan has been used to do exactly what it was meant to prevent;

DECLARING that this liberation will correct this situation by fulfilling the original intended aims of SC#6;

HEREBY removes the ability to institute a password in the stated region until such time as it sees fit.

[Flibbleites]

This draft is ridiculous. I first joined whe "Liberate Feudal Japan" was at the vote. I then witnessed "REPEAL Liberate Feudal Japan" and here again I see "Liberate Feudal Japan".

This is exactly like the "Condemn Grub"/"Condemn Daynor" situation. It mainly occurs because some person decides to get involved in breaking the 4th wall.

Yeah, it's like the SC has only two records to play and they're both broken.

[Enn]

This draft is ridiculous. I first joined whe "Liberate Feudal Japan" was at the vote. I then witnessed "REPEAL Liberate Feudal Japan" and here again I see "Liberate Feudal Japan".

This is exactly like the "Condemn Grub"/"Condemn Daynor" situation. It mainly occurs because some person decides to get involved in breaking the 4th wall.

Yeah, it's like the SC has only two records to play and they're both broken.

Don't forget Nazi Europe.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

This draft is ridiculous. I first joined whe "Liberate Feudal Japan" was at the vote. I then witnessed "REPEAL Liberate Feudal Japan" and here again I see "Liberate Feudal Japan".

This is exactly like the "Condemn Grub"/"Condemn Daynor" situation. It mainly occurs because some person decides to get involved in breaking the 4th wall.

You may call this Anti-WA spam, but it is just fact. The WA could be a decent organisation had it not become embroiled in game mechanics not based on RP.

My advice: stick to the GA. Soon the SC will have its own unique voting stream, and those inclined to ignore such nonsense, can.

[Naivetry]

And for whose benefit exactly, Janet Dobinson, are you proposing this resolution? Have you contacted any of the ejected members to see if they mind?

Yeah, I've spoken to a couple. They do indeed mind.

I was curious whom you might have approached, so I did a little searching of my own. (World Assembly, meet level 1 Intel.)

DISAPPOINTED that the current delegate of Feudal Japan, The Koz, after being granted the ability to re-institute the password through the retiring of SC#6, has subsequently exploited this power to either eject or ban and eject a large number of nations, including...Yamamoto Kansuke, Mandy Mandelson, The Imperial Fists, Ern Nest, Kanbei, Feudal Japan Girl, Utilax, Bolivarian Alternative, Jambudvipan Envoy XIV, Sunset Bay, The Game, 3blindmice, Active Camel, Enterprise B, Workshop 101;

Thank you for providing the links. Now, let's look at them, shall we?

All the thumbnails are clickable screenshots I took tonight. Nations that have been active in the last 20 days are ***marked. We'll take a closer look at those below in case you don't want to click. And in case you don't want to read, just skip down past the spoiler tag.

Yamamoto Kansuke

***Mandy Mandelson

***The Imperial Fists

Ern Nest (now CTE'd)

Kanbei

***Feudal Japan Girl

***Utilax

Bolivarian Alternative

Jambudvipan Envoy XIV

Sunset Bay

The Game (oops, CTE'd?)
3blindmice

Active Camel

Enterprise B (raider, as shown in larger screenshot)

Workshop 101


So out of the nations you've listed, we have 4 who have logged in at any point during the last 20 days. If you want to take a look at those, see below.

Mandy Mandelson

Most Recent Government Activity: 6 days ago

* 15 hours ago: Mandy Mandelson was ejected from Feudal Japan by The Kabushiki Kaisha of The KoZ.
* 20 days ago: Mandy Mandelson relocated from The South Pacific to Feudal Japan.
* 20 days ago: Mandy Mandelson altered its national flag.
* 20 days ago: Mandy Mandelson was founded.

The Imperial Fists

Most Recent Government Activity: 2 days, 6 hours ago

* 15 hours ago: The Imperial Fists was ejected from Feudal Japan by The Kabushiki Kaisha of The KoZ.
* 31 days ago: The Imperial Fists relocated from Scroll Islands to Feudal Japan.
* 113 days ago: The Imperial Fists relocated from Lazarus to Scroll Islands.
* 113 days ago: The Imperial Fists altered its national flag.
* 113 days ago: The Imperial Fists was refounded.
* 113 days ago: The Imperial Fists relocated from Scroll Islands to Lazarus.
* 397 days ago: The Imperial Fists relocated from Lazarus to Scroll Islands.
* 397 days ago: The Imperial Fists was refounded.
* 397 days ago: The Imperial Fists relocated from Lazarus to Lazarus.

Feudal Japan Girl

Most Recent Government Activity: 2 days, 22 hours ago

* 15 hours ago: Feudal Japan Girl was ejected from Feudal Japan by The Kabushiki Kaisha of The KoZ.
* 38 days ago: Feudal Japan Girl lodged a message at Feudal Japan Civil Headquarters.
* 38 days ago: Feudal Japan Girl relocated from Hong Kong to Feudal Japan.
* 38 days ago: Feudal Japan Girl lodged a message at Hong Kong Civil Headquarters.
* 115 days ago: Feudal Japan Girl lodged a message at Hong Kong Civil Headquarters.
* 129 days ago: Feudal Japan Girl lodged a message at Hong Kong Civil Headquarters.
* 143 days ago: Feudal Japan Girl lodged a message at Hong Kong Civil Headquarters.
* 143 days ago: Feudal Japan Girl relocated from The Rejected Realms to Hong Kong.
* 153 days ago: Feudal Japan Girl was ejected from Belgium by The Nation of Wallonia-Flanders.
* 154 days ago: Feudal Japan Girl lodged a message at Belgium Civil Headquarters.

This one is obviously a defender puppet (she was kicked out of Belgium by the former raider delegate), and in fact I think I know whose. Trust me, she wouldn't object to this.

Utilax

Most Recent Government Activity: 3 days, 13 hours ago

* 15 hours ago: Utilax was ejected from Feudal Japan by The Kabushiki Kaisha of The KoZ.
* 18 days ago: Utilax lodged a message at Feudal Japan Civil Headquarters.
* 20 days ago: Following new legislation in Utilax, corporations donate huge sums of money to favored politicians.
* 20 days ago: Following new legislation in Utilax, married couples must call each other "darling" or risk a fine.
* 28 days ago: Following new legislation in Utilax, gambling is outlawed.
* 28 days ago: Following new legislation in Utilax, punitive tariffs protect local industry.
* 28 days ago: Following new legislation in Utilax, the latest Harry Potter book is a bestseller.
* 31 days ago: Utilax lodged a message at Feudal Japan Civil Headquarters.
* 31 days ago: Utilax relocated from The East Pacific to Feudal Japan.
* 31 days ago: Utilax was founded.

Oh, but wait. Not a single one of these has logged into their nation since being kicked out. I'm afraid you must not have talked to any of them... unless, of course, they're puppets of someone you know?

But that's immaterial really. The fact remains they have been ejected. If they wanted to leave, wouldn't they just, well, leave?!

It isn't immaterial. Until earlier this week when I needed a switcher, I had left my puppet in Feudal Japan with the rest of them. If I hadn't moved it, I'd have been ejected as well.

So let me ask this again: For whose benefit, exactly, are you proposing this resolution?

poor choice of words on my part,I meant you think a delegate can do anything he want's as long as he's native?

If he also has native support for what he's doing? Yes. You think natives shouldn't be allowed to do what they want with their own region?

EDIT: Typo.

[Neasmyrna]

Really invader people?



Please just read naivetry's posts in this thread.

Again, I don't hear anyone who really cares about this region in particular talking here and saying that they are a native and want their homes back... or even able to say anyone was specifically griefed out of their home region. if you want the WA involved in something you better have a darn good reason.

[Daynor]

And the reason for the first liberation was a "darn good reason"?



Anyway, I'd at least agree that you [author of this proposal] are going about this wrong. Condemn Knights of Zion (KoZ) and/or Sedgistan for their roll in the griefing of Feudal Japan (ejection of all members with use of a secret password).

Hmmm... *Opens flipbook to 'To Do List' Page, begins writing*

[New Dracora]

*right clicks*

*saves*

Cheers dude - gonna save that for a rainy day.

[Naivetry]

And the reason for the first liberation was a "darn good reason"?

"Darn good" is of course a subjective value judgment, but "the natives wanted their region back" is one I'd be willing to give that label.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Oh jeez, here we go again with you fools. The natives HAD the region, you took it from them. End of discussion.

[Danielturner]

This needs to be passed as a matter of urgency. This is exactly why I was against the repeal from the start. I feared that this could happen. We need this past. I urge all delegates to support this proposal.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Just a note:
http://nsdossier.texasregion.net/main.a ... ion=fjapan
That would be a much more effective way of keeping track of nations.

[Cinistra]

The SC res #6 "Liberate Feudal Japan", clearly stated the any future pw protecting would be regarded as illegal (last period). The WA nations apparently did sleep when they let The SC res #7 pass. Regardless the motive of KoZ for pw protecting FJ, his actions is clearly illegal.

[Goobergunchia]

The SC res #6 "Liberate Feudal Japan", clearly stated the any future pw protecting would be regarded as illegal (last period). The WA nations apparently did sleep when they let The SC res #7 pass. Regardless the motive of KoZ for pw protecting FJ, his actions is clearly illegal.

If you believe an in-game action is illegal, it should be reported via the Getting Help page.

[Blackwolfe]

The SC res #6 "Liberate Feudal Japan", clearly stated the any future pw protecting would be regarded as illegal (last period). The WA nations apparently did sleep when they let The SC res #7 pass. Regardless the motive of KoZ for pw protecting FJ, his actions is clearly illegal.

And with the repeal, SC res #6 "Liberate Feudal Japan" no longer exists.

I think it is high time I add my two cents, and I'm certain to get my money's worth.

I'd like to first address the accusations of KoZ and his "griefing". KoZ is the Emperor and Shogun of Feudal Japan. He is the RIGHTFUL heir and as such is entitled to boot anyone he sees fit, as per the laws of Feudal Japan. Now that the rightful government is back, this is not only justified, but supported by every nation that was scattered across the NSverse after the illegitimate and illegal occupation took place.

It has been a long and daunting task to regain what rightfully and LAWFULLY belongs to the TRUE natives of Feudal Japan, and we are proud and thankful to her liberators for allowing us another opportunity to prosper within the embrace of our motherland. As you can see by visiting the forum, a LOT of time and care has gone into developing our off-site forum and its long history.

It's time to just let the TRUE citizens of Feudal Japan settle in and get back to creating one of the GREATEST, CULTURALLY-RICH regions NS has ever known, and drop this petty nonsense. You're not drafting a resolution to LIBERATE FEUDAL JAPAN, you're drafting a res to OCCUPY her, and THAT, my friend, is the ONLY abuse of the spirit of the WA res process I see here.

--Blackwolfe
-Proud Citizen of Feudal Japan

[Knights of Zion]

I haven't read this entire topic, but I can clarify what's presently happening. As I've consistently said since the original liberation, the intent has always been to refound. The last invader ceased to exist this week, so we are moving forward as quickly as possible towards refounding. The more quickly this is accomplished, the more quickly we can do away with the password as we will no longer have fear of invasion.

I hope no one feels they were ejected against their will. If they do not understand the process, I hope they will personally telegram me. I have telegrammed everyone who was ejected twice, on two separate occasions, to explain the situation in detail. As stated in those messages, they are more than welcome in Tokugawa Japan which has an open-door policy, or in Feudal Japan once it is refounded, which will then adopt an identical policy. So far, I have not heard back from anyone who was ejected so I don't think it was taken amiss by any of them.

I'll repeat in one clear statement for the record here: Feudal Japan will not be a password-protected region once it is refounded.

[The KoZ]

The KoZ = Knights of Zion, in case that isn't clear to anyone.

Perhaps I should add, a key aim of this refounding is to protect us, the natives (i.e. friends of the region's original founder) against resolutions like the one being proposed here, or any other repeat attempt at invasion. We want to get on with NS life and put this invader/defender activity behind us. Of course both sides will be welcome to visit after refounding; we'll be aiming to raise our population at that point anyway.

[Janet Dobinson]

For the record, this liberation is not about opening the region up to invasion. It is about preventing another delegate within Feudal Japan from hiding behind a password while systematically banning and ejecting nations: people were quick to support the first liberation, and the circumstances surrounding this second proposal are exactly the same.

As far as I'm concerned The Koz could remain delegate, a liberation won't change that either. However, he can still use his banject tools without hiding behind a password - just like the Belgian community have and continue to.

As for the 'oh but it's about refounding the region'. I don't care. Neither should the SC. The password should be forfeit when it is used in the very same way that the previous delegate used it, actions which led to the installation of the current delegate need I remind anyone. Moreover, as I've said on here, the last invader delegate could have easily made the same argument about wanting to re-found, i.e. I need to eject nations from behind a password to make the process safe. That clearly wouldn't have been acceptable then so why should it be now?

So the question remains, it's acceptable for preferred nations to 'grief' a region?

[Janet Dobinson]

On that note I've gone ahead and submitted the proposal. We'll let the world decide!

[Bears Armed]

Moreover, as I've said on here, the last invader delegate could have easily made the same argument about wanting to re-found, i.e. I need to eject nations from behind a password to make the process safe. That clearly wouldn't have been acceptable then so why should it be now?

Except that after the last invader delegate had finished ejecting residents he (or his allies) then kept the region locked-down under a password for something like two years before the 'Liberation' proposal became possible: How about allowing the current delegate a few weeks to prove their intentions before jumping on them like this? Unless of course, your true intention to to both prevent refounding and remove the password so that the invaders can have another go at seizing control?
(And you still haven't answered the question about which of the ejected nations you've actually spoken with about this, and how -- if they haven't logged into their nations since being ejected -- you've managed to contact them...)

[Anumia]

Janet, something you seem to leave out of your definitions, which unfortunately is the crux of the matter, is intent.

Ejecting nations is ejecting nations, no more and no less, without intent to provide context. A native Delegate doing it to refound is perfectly fine; griefing is when a non-native crashes the region and ejects nations for the purpose of destruction and harm. Similarly, the original liberation was to enable a long-overdue counter-strike against invaders who had taken the region and systematically destroyed it (a very slow griefing if you will), and hand control back to the old native Delegate and recognised (by the natives) Head of the region - for the purposes of re-founding as was quite openly discussed.

It's not a matter of "preferred" nations - the whole liberation/counter-attack/repeal thing wasn't an attempt by an old boy's club to stick a friend of the defenders into power, it was restoring the native Delegate. Once the natives are back, I hardly see how it can be the business of others to decide how they wish to run the region. KoZ and his government are the legally recognised native Government across NS; he is Shogun in direct descent from the original Founder and Shogun of the region, and to ensure an invasion does not happen to the region -again-, he has chosen to safeguard the region by refounding it. Once that has occurred no doubt all those who wish to return (bar perhaps the original invaders ) will be allowed to do so, and the free-for-all open policy will in fact be protected by the fact that an active Founder will now be available - there will be no need for suspicion about new entrants.

As for your premise - passwording a region is a perfectly legitimate feature created and allowed by the game admins. The way you talk it is as if you wish to start a grand crusade to have passwords banned - if you think the game would be better without passwords that's fair enough, but that is a topic for a game mechanics forum, not something that should be done by removing the password on one region at a time through SC resolutions, systematically removing the choice from every founderless region irrelevant of their situation. SC resolutions are not meant to be broad statements on policy across all of NationStates, they are meant to be specific resolutions on specific matters, and a general dislike of Delegates passwording regions is not legitimate grounds for this resolution in my obviously not humble opinion.