[draft] Condemn Das Dritte Reich

[Abacathea]

Okies, a few important notes here.

A: This was constructed at the request of a nation who wanted to do this but wasn't sure how, I offered to draft, but posting here for formatting reasons.

B: I have no intimate knowledge of the region, the bulk of information posted here is as a result of information provided to me by Dench with exception of some research done myself to flesh it out.

Condemn Das Dritte Reich

A resolution to express shock and dismay at a nation or region.

Category: Condemnation | Nominee: Das Dritte Reich | Proposed by: Dench

Description: applauding the Security Council, its functions and its tireless work as a body of the WA for the international community;

Further recognizing that it is a fundamental principal of the Security Council in its charter to address and publicize regions and nations alike who fail the international community as a whole through thought and deed;

Noting that this is yet another fascist region established by a corrupt and brutal government, specifically hakidaku which in itself is ranked within the worlds top 10% of corrupted governance and that this region, which has established itself within the NationStates community is bent solely on the purposes of spreading disharmony and chaos in any region it touches;

Outraged that this fascist region, has not only recruited members of the former Nazi Reich a region which has previously fallen due to it's actions, but has allowed them to continue to practice their hatred and encouraged their open hate speech in this new environment;

Aware that this region has been involved in close to thirty raids to date including the attempted raid of italy;

Concerned that a region with such extreme views and tactics also boasts a distinct affirmation towards the use of biological weaponry.

Further noting their breaches of WA law including but not limited to

WAR #2 Rights and Duties of WA States
WAR #30 Freedom of Expression
WAR #35 The Charter of Civil Rights
WAR #43 WA Labor Relations Act

Believing that this region, like any disease should not be ignored, and that it's repeated violations of World Assembly law and general approach to the NationStates communities as whole is worthy of being treated by being noted by this esteemed council and it's members;

Hereby Condemns: Das Dritte Reich.

This may well need some further fleshing out, so as usual all comments welcomed.

Abacathea

[Cerian Quilor]

The name can't be 'Condemn Dench' with Dench as the nominee if it is directed at Das Dritte Reich

[Abacathea]

The name can't be 'Condemn Dench' with Dench as the nominee if it is directed at Das Dritte Reich

Minor oversight lol shouldn't draft at 2 in the morning will edit to reflect

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

I'd rather not give them the kudos of a badge.

And while your drafting of this proposal is laudable, Dench should present himself here with his reasons why this proposal should be supported.

[Vladisvok Destino]

And while your drafting of this proposal is laudable, Dench should present himself here with his reasons why this proposal should be supported.

Have to agree with this, would be nice to hear from the author directly at some stage.

With regards to the proposal itself:

1. So it's a fascist region, big deal. Once again people focusing on one particular brand of "hatred" while ignoring others. Immediately makes me think this proposal is a waste of time.
2. On a legal point, I'd question the use of "Nationstates Community" and whether it's a rule 4 violation in its current context.
3. They're raiders, condemnable I suppose although I'd rather have a bit more meat on the bones. What other raids have they been involved in? Is there anything particularly shocking about their raids as opposed to other raiding groups?
4. One post by a recently elected delegate doesn't trike me as "a distinct affirmation towards the use of biological weaponry" is there anything more on this one?
5. Less than half the nations in the region are in the WA, why should we be concerned by non-WA nations not following WA laws?

Overall a weak condemn which comes across as another "zomg nazis ;_;" proposal.

[Abacathea]

I'd rather not give them the kudos of a badge.

And while your drafting of this proposal is laudable, Dench should present himself here with his reasons why this proposal should be supported.

I suspect he may well yet. I was asked Thursday to draft this and I only got a chance at 2am
(Gmt) last night so there's a chance he has yet actually reviewed this himself yet. It is of course still an early draft and might need considerable tweaking. (As pointed out by our learned friend just above me).

As for the badge aspect, I was always under the illusion that while many regions (riders for example) wear their badges proudly, the idea behind a condemn is not to do it simply because a region may "want" one. So fundamentally I never take into consideration whether its a kudos or not, simply whether they've warranted it.

I am aware it's not a fully strong condemnation and definitely not one of my stronger works, but if Dench has more to offer information wise presumably I can toughen it up.

Clarification on that rule 4 though would be handy.

[Kidlantis]

Although it sounds good that you're condemning them, I personally think they should be condemned as well for their recruiters and their ad-spam in many regions.

[Dench]

And while your drafting of this proposal is laudable, Dench should present himself here with his reasons why this proposal should be supported.

Have to agree with this, would be nice to hear from the author directly at some stage.

With regards to the proposal itself:

1. So it's a fascist region, big deal. Once again people focusing on one particular brand of "hatred" while ignoring others. Immediately makes me think this proposal is a waste of time.
2. On a legal point, I'd question the use of "Nationstates Community" and whether it's a rule 4 violation in its current context.
3. They're raiders, condemnable I suppose although I'd rather have a bit more meat on the bones. What other raids have they been involved in? Is there anything particularly shocking about their raids as opposed to other raiding groups?
4. One post by a recently elected delegate doesn't trike me as "a distinct affirmation towards the use of biological weaponry" is there anything more on this one?
5. Less than half the nations in the region are in the WA, why should we be concerned by non-WA nations not following WA laws?

Overall a weak condemn which comes across as another "zomg nazis ;_;" proposal.

I know that there are many other brands of hatred in this world, but fascism is a particularly potent one, this region has taken members from the former nazi reich gladly under its wing, in fact hakidaku was head of their "SS" at one point, so I believe the hatred in this region is worse in this region than any other one.

Yes on a legal point it could be questionable talking of "nationstates", maybe we should say something such as the "world community" or the "international community"

They are raiders, although they haven't become established yet I believe them condemnable for this among other reasons, they did have a successful raid on illuminati assembly (a non-executive founder region) and at the time their region was the same size if not smaller than the region they raided.

http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=2511372, http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=2511388 these was a comment from hakidaku that he asked his wehrmacht reichsmarschall to copy paste onto the RMB, this shows that both of them agree with it I guess, and that makes all 3 of the "reichsmarschalls" advocates of the use of biological warfare, also the comments disregard for the law if it were to pass is pretty shocking to me.

On the above subject I believe hakidaku has been banned from RMB posting, thats the only reason I can see for his using of others to post on the RMB, I believe this is a rather serious punishment for disregard of rules (I don't know if this could be added into the proposal?)

Having less than half nations in a region hasn't stopped people condemning regions for disregard of WA before, as with the condemnation of GGR, less than 50% of their region are in the WA (probably a lot less).

Sorry for not posting this myself, and being a little slow of the mark myself to post, I would have posted this myself, but this is my first time in this game and I have heard it can be a "snake pit" so therefore I looked for a more established SC drafter as help, and luckily I found one .

Oh yes, I nearly forgot, I do not believe that the reason for going against of condemnation should be them "wanting a shiny badge" anyway but they seem to want to cast national socialism as a good thing and therefore their region, a condemnation could seriously wound this standpoint.

EDIT: Added another RMB post in to prove the point that hakidaku disregards WA laws on chemical weapons.

[Dench]

Although it sounds good that you're condemning them, I personally think they should be condemned as well for their recruiters and their ad-spam in many regions.

I don't know if this should be utilized, although they have broken rules on ad-spam and continually annoyed regions, I don't know if it would be a violation of rule 4 or not...

[Ainin]

Although it sounds good that you're condemning them, I personally think they should be condemned as well for their recruiters and their ad-spam in many regions.

I don't know if this should be utilized, although they have broken rules on ad-spam and continually annoyed regions, I don't know if it would be a violation of rule 4 or not...

It is. No RL stuff in NSWA resolutions.

[Dench]

I don't know if this should be utilized, although they have broken rules on ad-spam and continually annoyed regions, I don't know if it would be a violation of rule 4 or not...

It is. No RL stuff in NSWA resolutions.

Alright, thanks for the heads up.

[Vladisvok Destino]

I know that there are many other brands of hatred in this world, but fascism is a particularly potent one, also I have observed attempts to condemn communist regions which have been quickly battered down, this is my first time having anything to do with a proposal so I didn't want to jump straight in with a really difficult condemnation to pass.

So essentially it comes down to an author wanting an easy badge, fair enough at least we know your intent from the start.

Yes on a legal point it could be questionable talking of "nationstates", maybe we should say something such as the "world community" or the "international community"

I would suggest "international community" would be a better phrase, it fits into the clause and avoids the original question mark.

http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=2511372, I believe that this was a comment from hakidaku that he asked his wehrmacht reichsmarschall to copy paste onto the RMB, this shows that both of them agree with it I guess, and that makes all 3 of the "reichsmarschalls" advocates of the use of biological warfare, also the comments disregard for the law if it were to pass is pretty shocking to me.

You "believe" the comment was from hakidaku, do you have any evidence of that? If you don't then it doesn't show that both of them agree with it. The comment may be shocking to you however it's quite common and there are a lot of debates regarding compliance with WA resolutions.

On the above subject I believe hakidaku has been banned from RMB posting, thats the only reason I can see for his using of others to post on the RMB, I believe this is a rather serious punishment for disregard of rules (I don't know if this could be added into the proposal?)

Technically it might be possible, but considering the amount of effort that would go into wording such a clause to make it rules compliant (see rule 4b for the main one you'd have to dodge) I'd suggest it wouldn't be worth it.

Having less than half nations in a region hasn't stopped people condemning regions for disregard of WA before, as with the condemnation of GGR, less than 50% of their region are in the WA (probably a lot less).

Condemn GGR mentions that the Security Council had to liberate a region from GGR, not that they ignored General Assembly resolutions (the angle your trying for,) so I ask again why a region should be condemned for ignoring resolutions they have no obligation to pay attention to?

Overall we now know this is an author looking for a cheap pat on the back and I hope that the Security council will take that into account and disregard this nonsense.

Edit: quote tags are bad.

[Dench]

I know that there are many other brands of hatred in this world, but fascism is a particularly potent one, also I have observed attempts to condemn communist regions which have been quickly battered down, this is my first time having anything to do with a proposal so I didn't want to jump straight in with a really difficult condemnation to pass.

So essentially it comes down to an author wanting an easy badge, fair enough at least we know your intent from the start.

Yes on a legal point it could be questionable talking of "nationstates", maybe we should say something such as the "world community" or the "international community"

I would suggest "international community" would be a better phrase, it fits into the clause and avoids the original question mark.

http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=2511372, I believe that this was a comment from hakidaku that he asked his wehrmacht reichsmarschall to copy paste onto the RMB, this shows that both of them agree with it I guess, and that makes all 3 of the "reichsmarschalls" advocates of the use of biological warfare, also the comments disregard for the law if it were to pass is pretty shocking to me.

You "believe" the comment was from hakidaku, do you have any evidence of that? If you don't then it doesn't show that both of them agree with it. The comment may be shocking to you however it's quite common and there are a lot of debates regarding compliance with WA resolutions.

On the above subject I believe hakidaku has been banned from RMB posting, thats the only reason I can see for his using of others to post on the RMB, I believe this is a rather serious punishment for disregard of rules (I don't know if this could be added into the proposal?)

Technically it might be possible, but considering the amount of effort that would go into wording such a clause to make it rules compliant (see rule 4b for the main one you'd have to dodge) I'd suggest it wouldn't be worth it.

Having less than half nations in a region hasn't stopped people condemning regions for disregard of WA before, as with the condemnation of GGR, less than 50% of their region are in the WA (probably a lot less).

Condemn GGR mentions that the Security Council had to liberate a region from GGR, not that they ignored General Assembly resolutions (the angle your trying for,) so I ask again why a region should be condemned for ignoring resolutions they have no obligation to pay attention to?

Overall we now know this is an author looking for a cheap pat on the back and I hope that the Security council will take that into account and disregard this nonsense.

Edit: quote tags are bad.

I didn't mean I wanted to give an easy badge, I would propose a condemnation of antifa or another hateful reason but I believe this region has more reason to be condemned for, as they disregard WA rules, have raided regions and have taken members from the nazi reich under their wing, a region which was destroyed for hate speech and all its members moved to fluffy bunny town.

http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=2511388 there is my evidence for hakidaku having posted that WA post, it was just posted after I wrote that message, I will edit that if you like.


I was merely asking if it were possible to add breaking rules to the resolution, if you believe it possible then it could be done I guess although I can see where your coming from with the surpassing of rule 4.

I understand a region had to be liberated from the GGR, but I believe this region has enough reason to be condemned as I have said before.

Finally reiterate I do not merely want an "easy badge", if I wanted that I could condemn the realm among other regions.

[Ainin]

I believe this region has more reason to be condemned for, as they disregard WA rules

If you claim they break WA Rules in the resolution, it is a violation of Rule 4 (No real life). Stuff like rule-breaking should be taken up with Moderation here. Against on technical grounds.

[Dench]

I believe this region has more reason to be condemned for, as they disregard WA rules

If you claim they break WA Rules in the resolution, it is a violation of Rule 4 (No real life). Stuff like rule-breaking should be taken up with Moderation here. Against on technical grounds.

By rules I mean resolutions, sorry.

They have already been punished for their RMB rule breaking.

[Abacathea]

OOC: vladisvok, as its my name that ultimately is attached to this thread, I feel t essential to clarify that I am NOT looking for an easy badge and I don't believe Dench personally is either or I wouldn't have signed up to this either, and I'd stress that accusation should be tossed around with care.

[Vladisvok Destino]

OOC: vladisvok, as its my name that ultimately is attached to this thread, I feel t essential to clarify that I am NOT looking for an easy badge and I don't believe Dench personally is either or I wouldn't have signed up to this either, and I'd stress that accusation should be tossed around with care.

I direct you to Denchs post:

I know that there are many other brands of hatred in this world, but fascism is a particularly potent one, also I have observed attempts to condemn communist regions which have been quickly battered down, this is my first time having anything to do with a proposal so I didn't want to jump straight in with a really difficult condemnation to pass.

Here we have the author acknowledging that there are many types of hate but that he has chosen the easy target because he doesn't wan to face a challenge.

If you dislike the accusation then perhaps you should have looked into the matter more carefully before choosing to OP the topic? This is lazy proposal writing designed to jump on the bandwagon that the GCRs have put back into motion and there can be no more obvious definition of looking for an easy badge than that.

[Hakidaku]

Hm, guess I dont have to worry about this as it doesnt look as it is going to pass from the comments ive seen.

Although I do have to agree with dench that it is almost impossible to pass a resolution againdt communist hateed because anyone who does is labelled a "nazi lover".

If it is such an easy badge though why has it been discredited for so many reasons? Are all nazi related condemnations "easy"? And because he is new, should he be villified for not trying to pass such an impposible resolution as a condemnation of communists on a left biased game?

[Feux]

Hm, guess I dont have to worry about this as it doesnt look as it is going to pass from the comments ive seen.

Heh. If I had a dime for very bold and capitalized "AGAINST" on my draft threads...

[Hakidaku]

Hm, guess I dont have to worry about this as it doesnt look as it is going to pass from the comments ive seen.

Heh. If I had a dime for very bold and capitalized "AGAINST" on my draft threads...

If I had a dime for the amount of times you banned me from lazarus.

[Abacathea]

~snip~

If you dislike the accusation then perhaps you should have looked into the matter more carefully before choosing to OP the topic? This is lazy proposal writing designed to jump on the bandwagon that the GCRs have put back into motion and there can be no more obvious definition of looking for an easy badge than that.

Personally, I do dislike the accusation, but thats just me, I don't feel I've ever simply went "this is the easy route, that suits me", I enjoy the graft, hence why I tend towards the WA anyway, there's something satisfactory about the grind involved. That said, Dench's belief in an easy authorship aside, there's clearly an uphill battle here, and I'm inclined to enjoy the challenge until such a time as I feel I'm still at the bottom of the hill.

That said, given the information I was provided, I personally see no reason why this shouldn't be pursued providing I can access stronger information than what I have already to back it up. I also see no reason why when someone came to me and asked would I do a draft for them I should have said no, I enjoy this sort of work so why not.

Not trying to seem like an ass here, and I apologise if it's coming across that way (text vs tone = disaster) I just felt it important to justify that I'm not simply going "this will be an easy win for me" 'cos it's damn clear already it won't be lol.

[Feux]

Heh. If I had a dime for very bold and capitalized "AGAINST" on my draft threads...

If I had a dime for the amount of times you banned me from lazarus.

We would both be very rich.

[Dench]

OOC: vladisvok, as its my name that ultimately is attached to this thread, I feel t essential to clarify that I am NOT looking for an easy badge and I don't believe Dench personally is either or I wouldn't have signed up to this either, and I'd stress that accusation should be tossed around with care.

I direct you to Denchs post:

I know that there are many other brands of hatred in this world, but fascism is a particularly potent one, also I have observed attempts to condemn communist regions which have been quickly battered down, this is my first time having anything to do with a proposal so I didn't want to jump straight in with a really difficult condemnation to pass.

Here we have the author acknowledging that there are many types of hate but that he has chosen the easy target because he doesn't wan to face a challenge.

If you dislike the accusation then perhaps you should have looked into the matter more carefully before choosing to OP the topic? This is lazy proposal writing designed to jump on the bandwagon that the GCRs have put back into motion and there can be no more obvious definition of looking for an easy badge than that.

Your argument does not stand up as you use a sole comment of mine which says I do not want to start on a "very difficult proposal", this does not show I want an easy badge as you so arrogantly put it, it shows that I believe this is not as difficulter proposal as one such as a condemnation of antipha.

So can I dispell this rumour that I want an "easy badge" because it is proving obvious that this is not going to be that kind of proposal is it? Anyway that argument is irrevelant to the nature of the proposal, and can we now put it aside.

[Frisbeeteria]

On the above subject I believe hakidaku has been banned from RMB posting, thats the only reason I can see for his using of others to post on the RMB, I believe this is a rather serious punishment for disregard of rules (I don't know if this could be added into the proposal?)

We'll tolerate a certain amount of puppetwank in the SC, since people don't want their spies and sleepers publicly outed. There are gameplay reasons for overlooking most of the arguments you make about all the Nazi crap and poor raiding and such. However, when you start shit-talking your own puppet Hakidaku about breaking the rules, well that pushed me a bit too far.

Using one of your puppets to condemn a region created by another of your puppets is pretty much poor form, and I think Abacathea needs to know who's using them in this transparent attempt to get badges for both author and Condemned. The fact that you recognize that rulebreaking is bad, but continually and willfully persist in doing so, says pretty much everything about your character that needs to be said.

Yeah. Good luck with this one.

[Hakidaku]

On the above subject I believe hakidaku has been banned from RMB posting, thats the only reason I can see for his using of others to post on the RMB, I believe this is a rather serious punishment for disregard of rules (I don't know if this could be added into the proposal?)

We'll tolerate a certain amount of puppetwank in the SC, since people don't want their spies and sleepers publicly outed. There are gameplay reasons for overlooking most of the arguments you make about all the Nazi crap and poor raiding and such. However, when you start shit-talking your own puppet Hakidaku about breaking the rules, well that pushed me a bit too far.

Using one of your puppets to condemn a region created by another of your puppets is pretty much poor form, and I think Abacathea needs to know who's using them in this transparent attempt to get badges for both author and Condemned. The fact that you recognize that rulebreaking is bad, but continually and willfully persist in doing so, says pretty much everything about your character that needs to be said.

Yeah. Good luck with this one.

Damn and that shiny badge would have looked nice.

Oh well, this isn't a rule break and im happy to cuss of myself for the greater good, and I don't believe I've broken any rules in months, and that was because I didn't originally read the rules, I guess I need to be more observant in the future.

Who knows this episode might get me, or my region condemned in the future .