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[DRAFT] Repeal Condemn True North

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Welsh Cowboy
Minister
 
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Founded: Dec 03, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Welsh Cowboy » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:46 pm

As one of the players behind True North, I don't really care if this resolution is repealed or not. I mean, it didn't do anything...

Yeah, I disagreed with the resolution at the time, but I just don't see why the SC should be bothered with this issue again. True North is pretty much dead anyway...
Champions, 53rd Baptism of Fire

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United Federation of Canada
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Founded: Oct 09, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby United Federation of Canada » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:26 pm

Welsh Cowboy wrote:As one of the players behind True North, I don't really care if this resolution is repealed or not. I mean, it didn't do anything...

Yeah, I disagreed with the resolution at the time, but I just don't see why the SC should be bothered with this issue again. True North is pretty much dead anyway...


And since True North is going to die, the condemnation should be repealed.

We repealed Quote of the Day's commendation, as they no longer exist.

We repealed Liberate Nationalist Union as they are now a founded region, and the liberation would be pointless.

This is also a pointless condemnation and it should be stricken from the record.

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SkyDip
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
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Postby SkyDip » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:30 pm

United Federation of Canada wrote:We repealed Quote of the Day's commendation, as they no longer exist.

We did not repeal Commend TQOTD solely because the nation CTEd, but because there were many factual inaccuracies in the proposal. Apples ≠ oranges.
Elias Thaddeus Greyjoy, WA Ambassador of SkyDip
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Gordano and Lysandus wrote:SkyDip's actions have, ultimately, destroyed the World Assembly.

Eist wrote:Yea... If you are just going to casually dismiss SkyDip's advice, you are probably not going to get very far at all.

Sedgistan wrote:SkyDip is trying to help, and is giving sound advice. I'd suggestion listening to him, as he has experience of writing (and advising others with) legal proposals.

Frisbeeteria wrote:What Skydip said. This bitchfest is an embarrassment to the Security Council.

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United Federation of Canada
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Founded: Oct 09, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby United Federation of Canada » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:46 pm

SkyDip wrote:
United Federation of Canada wrote:We repealed Quote of the Day's commendation, as they no longer exist.

We did not repeal Commend TQOTD solely because the nation CTEd, but because there were many factual inaccuracies in the proposal. Apples ≠ oranges.


Would you have repealed it, if they still existed?

Somehow I think not.

Therefore it was a pointless commendation and it was stricken from the record, as this one should be.

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SkyDip
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
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Postby SkyDip » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:03 pm

United Federation of Canada wrote:
SkyDip wrote:We did not repeal Commend TQOTD solely because the nation CTEd, but because there were many factual inaccuracies in the proposal. Apples ≠ oranges.


Would you have repealed it, if they still existed?

Somehow I think not.

Therefore it was a pointless commendation and it was stricken from the record, as this one should be.

What you think is irrelevant, because you obviously do not hold all the facts on that matter. I did, in fact, propose my first draft of the repeal while TQOTD was still around. That Commendation was far from pointless - it was just factually inaccurate in many cases. Which does not compare to your attempt here, and the strawmen can probably end on that comparison.
Elias Thaddeus Greyjoy, WA Ambassador of SkyDip
Read my Guide to the Security Council, a comprehensive collection of history, tactics, and tips for the Security Council!


Gordano and Lysandus wrote:SkyDip's actions have, ultimately, destroyed the World Assembly.

Eist wrote:Yea... If you are just going to casually dismiss SkyDip's advice, you are probably not going to get very far at all.

Sedgistan wrote:SkyDip is trying to help, and is giving sound advice. I'd suggestion listening to him, as he has experience of writing (and advising others with) legal proposals.

Frisbeeteria wrote:What Skydip said. This bitchfest is an embarrassment to the Security Council.

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United Federation of Canada
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Founded: Oct 09, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby United Federation of Canada » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:07 pm

SkyDip wrote:
United Federation of Canada wrote:
Would you have repealed it, if they still existed?

Somehow I think not.

Therefore it was a pointless commendation and it was stricken from the record, as this one should be.

What you think is irrelevant, because you obviously do not hold all the facts on that matter. I did, in fact, propose my first draft of the repeal while TQOTD was still around. That Commendation was far from pointless - it was just factually inaccurate in many cases. Which does not compare to your attempt here, and the strawmen can probably end on that comparison.


And the condemnation of True North wasn't full of innaccuracies?

Lets see here:

NOTING, the region's high population has been achieved through 'puppet flooding' nations into the region.


Okay, and why does this concern the Security Council?

DISAPPOINTED, that regions committed to either recruiting new nations to their own region or welcoming new nations that join the Pacifics have been pushed down population rankings due to the actions of said region.


Oh boo-hoo. It was for one whole update.

BELIEVING that the sheer number of puppet states negatively affects the world and can hamper other nations attempting to travel with speed.


Hardly.

THEREFORE, punishing the region that has committed the above offence the most as a note that the Security Council disagrees with these actions.


Once again why does the Security Council care about such matters?

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Welsh Cowboy
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Founded: Dec 03, 2011
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Postby Welsh Cowboy » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:25 pm

Honestly, though, we don't care about the condemnation. I mean, seriously, the project is done...

Thanks for trying to fix the SC, but I just don't see the need to spend 4 days voting on this.
Champions, 53rd Baptism of Fire

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United Federation of Canada
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Founded: Oct 09, 2012
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Postby United Federation of Canada » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:35 pm

Welsh Cowboy wrote:Honestly, though, we don't care about the condemnation. I mean, seriously, the project is done...

Thanks for trying to fix the SC, but I just don't see the need to spend 4 days voting on this.


The condemnation is pointless, and should not be allowed to remain on the books.

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Cerian Quilor
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Cerian Quilor » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:38 pm

What is the point of any condemnation?
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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United Federation of Canada
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Founded: Oct 09, 2012
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Postby United Federation of Canada » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:23 pm

Cerian Quilor wrote:What is the point of any condemnation?


The express "Shock and Dismay at a Nation" in character.

There was nothing in character about this condemnation.

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Cerian Quilor
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Cerian Quilor » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:49 pm

There are numerous resolutions - condemn The Black Hawks or Condemn the Black Riders, for example that are not in-character.

RP is not the only world in NS.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Cromarty
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Founded: Oct 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Cromarty » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:19 am

But it is the only legitimate world in the SC. Hence Rule 4.
Cerian Quilor wrote:There's a difference between breaking the rules, and being well....Cromarty...
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Brommander of the Cartan Militia: They're Taking The Cartans To Isengard!
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Cerian Quilor
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Cerian Quilor » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:35 am

And Condemn True North didn't violate Rule 4.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Cromarty
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Founded: Oct 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Cromarty » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:53 am

Cerian Quilor wrote:And Condemn True North didn't violate Rule 4.

Oh indeed, I'm not defending his point at all, just saying the Security Council is specificly RP.
Cerian Quilor wrote:There's a difference between breaking the rules, and being well....Cromarty...
<Koth>all sexual orientations must unite under the relative sexiness of madjack
Former Delegate of Osiris
Brommander of the Cartan Militia: They're Taking The Cartans To Isengard!
Кромартий

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Sedgistan
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Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:25 am

Not really, and please return to debating the proposal.

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Milograd
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Founded: Feb 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Milograd » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:08 pm

I agree that True North's condemnation should be repealed, but I don't believe that this proposal is ready to be submitted.

REALIZING that no particular region was actually harmed by the actions of True North,

The word "particular" is superfluous here. One could argue that "actually" is also unnecessary, but I won't.

CONCERNED the Security Council has carried out a grave injustice, by condemning a region that has caused no harm to the international community,

Calling the condemnation a "grave injustice" seems hyperbolic and overly apologetic to me. I also don't believe that the comma after "injustice" is necessary.

BELIEVING that True North's true goal was to earn a condemnation from the Security Council for it's actions, thus is not worthy of condemnation by the Security Council,

"It's" is a contraction, and does not denote possession. "Its" is the word that you're looking for.

I don't believe that TN intended to be condemned for making a large puppet region, and we have no reason to believe that that was their motive for creating their puppets. If it was, you should probably provide us with evidence for your claim. Also, I would add "and is" before "thus."

DISGUSTED that the Security Council has awarded a "Shiny Badge" to a region that has done nothing worthy of a condemnation by the Security Council,

I would omit the proposal's statement about the "shiny badge" if I were you. You've already said that the condemnation was unjust. If you're trying to suggest that a condemnation provides TN with undeserved attention, which is an entirely different sentiment, the proposal should say that forthright. Additionally, your repeated usage of the phrase "condemnation by the Security Council" doesn't read well because it is awfully wordy. It could easily be shortened to "condemnation."
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