[DRAFT] Condemn Krulltopia

[United Federation of Canada]

The Security Council,

ACKNOWLEDGING that The Pacific is one of the largest and most active regions in the international community,

CONCERNED that the delegate for The Pacific Krulltopia has maintained an iron grip on power for almost four years by imposing a miniscule endorsement cap of TWENTY on all nations of The Pacific, save for the nations of Rothinzil, and The Seeker of Power,

ANGERED that Krulltopia suppresses any attempt by other regions to recruit from The Pacific, by banning recruiting nations and suppressing those nations messages on the Regional Message Board,

OUTRAGED that Krulltopia refuses to hold open and free elections in The Pacific, as to maintain their grip on power at any cost,

DISGUSTED that Krulltopia forces a brutal civil code upon all nations in the region to further maintain an iron grip of total domination of nations in the region,

ABHORRED that Krulltopia ejects nations for some of the following reasons, (as excerpted from The Pacific Civil Code):

1. A declaration of dislike for the Delegate of The Pacific or their policies with intent to subvert the Government.

2. Giving your endorsement to a nation with whom you are not familiar personally. (All nations in The Pacific are familiar with the nations that govern them.)

3. Expression of dislike for the policies of The Pacific Government or those Governments allied with or declared friendly by The Pacific Government.

4. Expression of views considered counter to those of The Pacific Government.

5. Failure to become aligned with the Delegate via WA endorsement.

6. Seeking many endorsements without permission.

7. Assisting those seeking many endorsements without permission.

HEREBY condemns Krulltopia for being a power hungry monster of a nation that must remain delegate of The Pacific at all costs.

The Security Council,

ACKNOWLEDGING that The Pacific is one of the largest and most active regions in the international community,

CONCERNED that the delegate for The Pacific Krulltopia has maintained an iron grip on power for almost four years by imposing a miniscule endorsement cap of TWENTY on all nations of The Pacific, save for the nations of Rothinzil, and The Seeker of Power,

ANGERED that the government of The Pacific suppresses any attempt by other regions to recruit from The Pacific, by banning recruiting nations and suppressing those nations messages on the Regional Message Board,

VEXXED that the government of The Pacific ignores all embassy requests from regions attempting to establish international relations with The Pacific in a further attempt to centralize power in the region,

OUTRAGED that the government of The Pacific refuses to hold open and free elections in The Pacific,

DISGUSTED that the government of The Pacific forces a brutal civil code upon all nations in the region to further maintain an iron grip of total domination of nations in the region,

ABHORRED that the government of The Pacific ejects nations for some of the following reasons, (as excerpted from The Pacific Civil Code):

1. A declaration of dislike for the Delegate of The Pacific or their policies with intent to subvert the Government.

2. Giving your endorsement to a nation with whom you are not familiar personally. (All nations in The Pacific are familiar with the nations that govern them.)

3. Expression of dislike for the policies of The Pacific Government or those Governments allied with or declared friendly by The Pacific Government.

4. Expression of views considered counter to those of The Pacific Government.

5. Failure to become aligned with the Delegate via WA endorsement.

6. Seeking many endorsements without permission.

7. Assisting those seeking many endorsements without permission.

HEREBY condemns The Pacific for sponsoring a brutal regime that is counter-productive to the beliefs of freedom and democracy in the international community.

[Vladisvok Destino]

CONCERNED that the delegate for The Pacific Krulltopia has maintained an iron grip on power for almost four years by imposing a miniscule endorsement cap of TWENTY on all nations of The Pacific, save for the nations of Rothinzil, and The Seeker of Power,

I've always wondered why people get so upset about endorsement caps, the only thing it really does is stop you building up influence which if you're specifically trying to build it up in a GCR then you're probably the sort of person the delegate wants to keep low

ANGERED that the government of The Pacific suppresses any attempt by other regions to recruit from The Pacific, by banning recruiting nations and suppressing those nations messages on the Regional Message Board,

The same as nearly all the other GCRs in one way or another, can we assume you'll be writing condemnations of them all?

VEXXED that the government of The Pacific ignores all embassy requests from regions attempting to establish international relations with The Pacific in a further attempt to centralize power in the region,

Someones upset they got their embassy request ignored? Also factually inaccurate they do not ignore 'all' requests, the WFE specifically lists the times they'll accept one. It's interesting that you assume that The Pacific should have their foreign affairs policy dictated to them, considering you claim to be in favour of freedom it seems rather hypocritical of you.

OUTRAGED that the government of The Pacific refuses to hold open and free elections in The Pacific,

Again, hardly unique in Nationstates, will you be condemning all non-democratic regions?

HEREBY condemns The Pacific for sponsoring a brutal regime that is counter-productive to the beliefs of freedom and democracy in the international community.

Except that there are many in the international community that don't believe in freedom and democracy.

[The Great Destruction]

Ok,

all of these things are normal occurances in nationstates. You would need to show us how this is too extreme or radical for the SC to ignore. We are not going to condemn anyone just because you don't like how they manage things. You would have to provide many other nations that have suffered under this regime.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

Nothing out the ordinary here. You could condemn every feeder or sinker for these same things, meaning this proposal is too broad to be effective. Perhaps if you were to focus on a condemnation of Krull rather than the Pacific as a whole it would work out better.

[United Federation of Canada]

Nothing out the ordinary here. You could condemn every feeder or sinker for these same things, meaning this proposal is too broad to be effective. Perhaps if you were to focus on a condemnation of Krull rather than the Pacific as a whole it would work out better.

Very good idea Mr. Ambassador. We will simply change the wording of the draft to condemn Krull.

We thank you for the suggestion.

[United Federation of Canada]

Updated to second draft.

Changed to Condemn Krulltopia only.

[Vladisvok Destino]

Updated to second draft.

Changed to Condemn Krulltopia only.

Except that you're largely trying to Condemn Krull for the same actions as you were trying to condemn the region for without answering the criticism.

[United Federation of Canada]

Updated to second draft.

Changed to Condemn Krulltopia only.

Except that you're largely trying to Condemn Krull for the same actions as you were trying to condemn the region for without answering the criticism.

We were initially condemning the region for supporting Krull.

Most of the condemnation was aimed at Krull any ways, and as Skydip pointed out it would make more sense to condemn Krull for these actions rather than the region as whole, so that is what we are doing.

As for your comments:

I've always wondered why people get so upset about endorsement caps, the only thing it really does is stop you building up influence which if you're specifically trying to build it up in a GCR then you're probably the sort of person the delegate wants to keep low

Why should endorsement caps be needed? What purpose do they serve? Why should other nations not be allowed to collect enough endorsements to become delegate? What gives Krulltopia this right?

The same as nearly all the other GCRs in one way or another, can we assume you'll be writing condemnations of them all?

All of the other feeders have rules in place that do ALLOW recruiters to post short messages. Krulltopia is the only delegate that banjects on sight.

Again, hardly unique in Nationstates, will you be condemning all non-democratic regions

No need to. Most regions can run any way they choose as they had a FOUNDER. The Pacific is a FEEDER, and new players come in all the time. Is this the system we really want to portray? All it does is inspire more nations to create regions that are brutal dictatorships. Hardly what we want now is it?

Satisfied?

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

All of the other feeders have rules in place that do ALLOW recruiters to post short messages.

Incorrect - The West Pacific's Delegate suppresses adspam on sight. One or two special regions are allowed to advertise, but the rest get stomped. What can I say - we of TWP just don't like rubbish on our RMB.

We also have an endo cap - going to condemn us or our Delegate next?

Edit - spelling

[Vladisvok Destino]

Why should endorsement caps be needed? What purpose do they serve? Why should other nations not be allowed to collect enough endorsements to become delegate? What gives Krulltopia this right?

I assume then we shall be seeing you draft condemnation for all the other GCRs that have endorsement caps in place? To answer your question they are in place to keep the legitimate delegate (whether elected or not) in place.

All of the other feeders have rules in place that do ALLOW recruiters to post short messages. Krulltopia is the only delegate that banjects on sight.

See the reply above from Bhang Bhang Duc.

No need to. Most regions can run any way they choose as they had a FOUNDER. The Pacific is a FEEDER, and new players come in all the time. Is this the system we really want to portray? All it does is inspire more nations to create regions that are brutal dictatorships. Hardly what we want now is it?

How other regions choose to run themselves is their own business, the only regions I'm fussed about how they're run are the ones I'm a member in and if I don't want to be in a 'brutal dictatorship' as you describe it then I won't be in one. Again you're assuming there is something wrong with how Krull runs The Pacific without actually showing any evidence of it.

Satisfied?

I'm satisfied that you don't really have any reason to condemn Krull that isn't:

A. Applicable to plenty of other regions
B. not a condemnable action

Does that count?

[Unibot III]

To be perfectly honest, I've never gotten while people need to endorse so much, it always just seems to be a fog for would-be coupers to try to use to their advantage with no actual social benefit coming from this liberality. But alas it has become an entrenched freedom in most other feeders and sinkers.

Notwithstanding this, Krulltopia is most definitely a dictator; you've described perfectly in this resolution the tell-tale signs of a dictator. My concern is more whether being a "dictator" is enough in this game to deserve a condemnation; there's been a lot of dictators in NationStates. I would of been up for a condemnation of Moldavi or Francos -- two former NPO dictators (whether or not Francos Spain opposed being called a "dictator" in an interview once); I don't think Krulltopia is nearly as belligerent and "shocking" as those two unless he suddenly decides to resign and use his uber-influence to make the region as lean as a slice of whole-wheat bread.

[Cerian Quilor]

The New Pacific Order and Krulltopia, as its leader, is despicable in its tyranny and ideology of 'Francoism'.

Now, that said, Krull hasn't done anything to the broader NS world, so he doesn't deserve Condemning by the WASC.

[Drop Your Pants]

ACKNOWLEDGING that The Pacific is one of the largest and most active regions in the international community,

Krull must be doing a good job then

[Communist Eraser]

Good it's back to Krull.

Was getting worried it was all Lazarus

[United Federation of Canada]

ACKNOWLEDGING that The Pacific is one of the largest and most active regions in the international community,

Krull must be doing a good job then

Not at all. It's simply a feeder region, and nations are told to ignore recruitment messages, or they are suppressed, so some people believe they have no where else to go.

Krull does nothing but suppress free speech, and runs a brutal tyrannical regime, and definitely needs to be condemned for it.

Good it's back to Krull.

Was getting worried it was all Lazarus

Lazarus was never involved in this at all, so why is it being brought up?

The New Pacific Order and Krulltopia, as its leader, is despicable in its tyranny and ideology of 'Francoism'.

Now, that said, Krull hasn't done anything to the broader NS world, so he doesn't deserve Condemning by the WASC.

Here's another question. What has Krull and The New Pacific Order done to make the international community a better place? They have an OBLIGATION as a FEEDER region to set a good example for new nations, and they fail at that miserably. Krull definitely needs to be condemned for this.

When Skyrim Diplomacy weighs in on this issue then we will decide whether we are going to proceed with this as it stands.

[Vladisvok Destino]

Here's another question. What has Krull and The New Pacific Order done to make the international community a better place?

What have any of the feeders/sinkers done to make the international community a better place? A lack of positive contribution does not automatically equal a negative contribution.

They have an OBLIGATION as a FEEDER region to set a good example for new nations, and they fail at that miserably. Krull definitely needs to be condemned for this.

A. On what grounds do you give them this obligation?
B. Your definition of a good example =/= an actual good example. You're assuming that your idea of how a region should be run is how all regions should be run and that's simply not the case. Some people enjoy dictatorship regions, some democratic, some completely anarchic and none of them are "right" or "good" more than any other.

[United Federation of Canada]

What have any of the feeders/sinkers done to make the international community a better place? A lack of positive contribution does not automatically equal a negative contribution.

Feeder regions are some of the largest regions in the International Community and have the obligation to make a positive contribution.

A. On what grounds do you give them this obligation?

They are a feeder region. They are the first thing a new nation sees when they are founded, and have an obligation to show that nation that the International Community is a vibrant, active place, and not a brutal tyrannical one.

B. Your definition of a good example =/= an actual good example. You're assuming that your idea of how a region should be run is how all regions should be run and that's simply not the case.

Not at all. Krull is more than entitled to run a brutal dictatorial region, if they FOUND one on that basis. A feeder region is supposed to show new nations that they CAN have a say in what goes on, and Krull takes that freedom away from them upon their initial founding.

Some people enjoy dictatorship regions, some democratic, some completely anarchic and none of them are "right" or "good" more than any other.

That is very true and they are entitled to FOUND their own region based upon those beliefs. A feeder region is designed to promote the betterment of the International Community which Krull fails miserably at.

[Krulltopia]

You do know that if by some miracle this does pass....I actually like the look of the Condemnation Badge, right?

Also, this is my second condemnation attempt in a week, did I do something evil and not notice?

[Vladisvok Destino]

Feeder regions are some of the largest regions in the International Community and have the obligation to make a positive contribution.

That's not really an answer, you haven't shown that any of the mentioned regions have made any contribution.

They are a feeder region. They are the first thing a new nation sees when they are founded, and have an obligation to show that nation that the International Community is a vibrant, active place, and not a brutal tyrannical one.

By your own admission The Pacific is an active place, so your argument seems self defeating here.

Not at all. Krull is more than entitled to run a brutal dictatorial region, if they FOUND one on that basis. A feeder region is supposed to show new nations that they CAN have a say in what goes on, and Krull takes that freedom away from them upon their initial founding.

Why is it supposed to show that? The way Krull runs the region is valid and is an example of how regions can be run, why should newer nations only be shown the aspect of regional governence that you think they should?

That is very true and they are entitled to FOUND their own region based upon those beliefs. A feeder region is designed to promote the betterment of the International Community which Krull fails miserably at.

Again, prove that it is designed to promote betterment. The only thing the feeders are designed for is for new nations to fall into, nothing else.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Here's another question. What has Krull and The New Pacific Order done to make the international community a better place? They have an OBLIGATION as a FEEDER region to set a good example for new nations, and they fail at that miserably. Krull definitely needs to be condemned for this.

Writing in caps does not lend your, for want of a better word, argument any weight. So far you have not produced a reason why a feeder region is obliged to set a good example, just your opinion.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

You do know that if by some miracle this does pass....I actually like the look of the Condemnation Badge, right?

Also, this is my second condemnation attempt in a week, did I do something evil and not notice?

Yes. You know, the thing that I mentioned? That thing. Ssh. Let us never speak of this again.

Against, because Krull does tyranny with such panache that he deserves to be commended for it instead.

[United Federation of Canada]

You do know that if by some miracle this does pass....I actually like the look of the Condemnation Badge, right?

Also, this is my second condemnation attempt in a week, did I do something evil and not notice?

You are evil. You suppress free speech and democracy on all levels. You are a brutal tyrannical, power-hungry monster, who must remain the delegate of that region at all costs.

OOC: See, what is the point?

You do know that if by some miracle this does pass....I actually like the look of the Condemnation Badge, right?

Condemnations do nothing in this game, and have no meaning other than a shiny badge for the holder. This is why I was going after the entire region in the first place, as nations in that region may NOT like having a condemnation badge over their heads, and do something about Krull.

[A mean old man]

Don't talk about the "obligations" of feeder regions until you've worked in their governments for a while.

[Krulltopia]

You know, throwing insults me doesn't exactly lend weight to you argument either.

By the way, I just suppressed a Nazi. I suppose that makes me evil, right?

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

You know, throwing insults me doesn't exactly lend weight to you argument either.

By the way, I just suppressed a Nazi. I suppose that makes me evil, right?

It makes you a damn filthy freedom-hating commie pinko, is what it makes you.

Like I said, I'm against because you do your job too well for me to want to condemn you.