Liberate Nazi Europe [Draft]

[Grossdeutsches Drittes Reich]

I never normally bother with the forums or World Assembly, but I've decided to write a Security Council resolution because of the current affairs in my region. Can people criticise and assist in some way.

The Security Council,

RECOGNISING Nazi Europe as a region with a very long and vibrant history in NationStates for better or for ill.

NOTING that a small group of ministers have been in power for in excess of a year with no level of accountability.

ALSO NOTING that a password has been in effect for the best part of three months, causing the once venerable region to slowly die off with no fresh members coming in and recently refounded members unable to return home.

CONCERNED that the ministers have taken an unprovoked move to remove all of the regions members and initiated an attempt to refound the region without consulting the broader regional membership and on the false premise of threats to the region.

BELIEVING that the moves by the said ministers is actually an attempt to grasp more power for themselves, so that they can flaunt their contradictory views against the broader base of the regional population.

AFFIRMING the right of the broader base of the regional membership to participate in determining the regions future and wishing to restore that right to those members who now find themselves in The Rejected Realms or forced to move to Blitzkrieg

HEREBY liberates the region of NAZI EUROPE.

[United Federation of Canada]

Again? Will this issue NEVER fucking die?

[Cromarty]

Again? Will this issue NEVER fucking die?

I think that's a little unfair. This liberation isn't one to open up the region to invasion, but for what we can assume to be ejected natives to regain their region.

I am in favour.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

This will, no doubt, have unintended consequences given the rash of bullshit Liberation attempts we've seen as of late from Cormac and others surrounding this region. I think it's still in the best interest of the region to keep the password up.

Edit for spelling

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Very, very much in favour.

[Proletaurus]

Very, very much in favour.

Yes. Indeed. It would be actually equivalent to WWII in NationStates... Or like Superbowl.

SEMI-FINAL
HOME TEAM / VISITORS
All Aryan NaziF*ck-Masters vs. 'Commie Subhumans' of The World

or

FC Oppressors vs. AC Emancipators

or

Reaction vs. Progression

or something similar...

It would be nice to see how that battle would end. Wawes after waves of Invasions, Dozens and dozens WA-troopers every single update possible and continuous Arms-race in WA-SC Repeal Liberation and Liberation Proposals...

And All of this under beautiful sunny landscape with ugly (but earned) Shadow of Condemnation. Of course, NE will be liberated only when it effectively cease to exist in NS for purposes what were reasons of it's original founding.

Maybe it's just a dream.

[Three Weasels]

Judging by the length their delegate has held office, we'd wager the password is a security implementation. To remove the password would be a violation of their sovereign rights in this case. Only once in our delegacy have we approved a liberation, and it was for a region that had its sovereignty brutally violated. We see no evidence to suggest that this is the case here.

[Galiantus]

Judging by the length their delegate has held office, we'd wager the password is a security implementation. To remove the password would be a violation of their sovereign rights in this case. Only once in our delegacy have we approved a liberation, and it was for a region that had its sovereignty brutally violated. We see no evidence to suggest that this is the case here.

I strongly agree.

AGAINST

[Frattastan]

NOTING that a small group of ministers have been in power for in excess of a year with no level of accountability

Fits well with the theme of the region.

[Hesse]

Invasions have been attempted against NE in the past, and it is most likely not within the region's best interests to remove the password.

And it also seems like that the writer has drafted this proposal out of spite from being ejected from the region, since he did not endorse the current delegate.

AGAINST

[Jamie Anumia]

I'm rather tired of Liberate NE proposals now. I'm Against, anyway. My reasoning is the same as before, I believe a region has the right to decide whether to put a password on their region or not.

[Sedgistan]

From: Emperor Longinus I of Sardakhar, Almighty God on Earth
To: The Government of Grossdeutsches Drittes Reich

We in Sardakhar note your boldness in making this proposal for the Liberation of a certain region. We have to note a few things, however:

1. Your nation apparently was formerly a member of the very same region that you want the Security Council to liberate now: Nazi Europe. Your new region is titled "Nazi Exiles". Hopefully you do not propose this simply because of resentment but because of a genuine desire to liberate the region.
2. From what we have heard, Nazi Europe is a seemingly an almost-regular issue around here. There had been a number of previous attempts to liberate this notorious region and the region itself had repeatedly experienced instability, including invasions, in the past. Now, we do not want to see the Security Council lose its dignity and meaning, becoming reduced to a stage of an increasingly boring, repetitive, and monotone liberate-repeal-liberate-repeal, and so on and so on.
3. As Hesse has said before, Nazi Europe not removing the password is understandable, because it does not want to face even more invasions. Let them have their peace... and perhaps let them die off slowly until it finally ceases to exist on this Earth.

Invasions have been attempted against NE in the past, and it is most likely not within the region's best interests to remove the password.

We agree with the following argument:

Judging by the length their delegate has held office, we'd wager the password is a security implementation. To remove the password would be a violation of their sovereign rights in this case. Only once in our delegacy have we approved a liberation, and it was for a region that had its sovereignty brutally violated. We see no evidence to suggest that this is the case here.

Lastly, we note that some nations have become bored with this kind of proposals and perhaps do not want to see more of it, at least for now.

Therefore, the Empire of Sardakhar is officially against this proposal and does not want to see it submitted, in any form, into the halls of the Security Council, at least for now.

[Delegate Vinage]

Mmm interesting.... an individual formerly within Nazi Europe is calling on the international community to assist in bringing in the leaders of NE into accountability.

Does the author realise that if the region was to be liberated it would almost certainly be raided? Or is that the authors intent here?

[United Federation of Canada]

Mmm interesting.... an individual formerly within Nazi Europe is calling on the international community to assist in bringing in the leaders of NE into accountability.

Does the author realise that if the region was to be liberated it would almost certainly be raided? Or is that the authors intent here?

It would appear the author's intent is to liberate, as to prevent the region from being refounded behind the protection of a password.

All we can say to this is good luck.

[Grossdeutsches Drittes Reich]

@ Hesse, I wasn't ejected for not endorsing, I was ejected because the ministers decided to take a firmer grip on the region. They implemented a plan to refound the region, rather than trying to make the region stronger, by getting more members in and making the region a great place to reside. They are more interested in cementing their positions, regardless of whether it benefits the region. If you hadn't noticed, the region has been practically emptied. It was not just me.

@ Jamie, the region didn't decide. Three or four ministers did, and they clearly don't hold the regions interests in with their own, they never even consulted the region, they just went ahead and decided to eject the majority of its members.

The region clearly hasn't been successfully invaded in a year and a 120 days, and there are a lot of regions without founders that have a WA Delegate who is strong enough to be unseated. If the ministers of the region had taken responsibility for the region prior to now, we could have a larger region, with more active WA's that would give the region the required security, this never happened. I believe the best thing for the region is to liberate it, and let the old members return, and try and build the region up and give the members the right to choose how the region works.

This WA Delegate is clearly contravening the Security Council by imposing such measures against the majority of his own regions population.

What's wrong with the spelling?

[United Federation of Canada]

@ Hesse, I wasn't ejected for not endorsing, I was ejected because the ministers decided to take a firmer grip on the region. They implemented a plan to refound the region, rather than trying to make the region stronger, by getting more members in and making the region a great place to reside. They are more interested in cementing their positions, regardless of whether it benefits the region. If you hadn't noticed, the region has been practically emptied. It was not just me.

@ Jamie, the region didn't decide. Three or four ministers did, and they clearly don't hold the regions interests in with their own, they never even consulted the region, they just went ahead and decided to eject the majority of its members.

The region clearly hasn't been successfully invaded in a year and a 120 days, and there are a lot of regions without founders that have a WA Delegate who is strong enough to be unseated. If the ministers of the region had taken responsibility for the region prior to now, we could have a larger region, with more active WA's that would give the region the required security, this never happened. I believe the best thing for the region is to liberate it, and let the old members return, and try and build the region up and give the members the right to choose how the region works.

This WA Delegate is clearly contravening the Security Council by imposing such measures against the majority of his own regions population.

What's wrong with the spelling?

You obviously don't understand the politics at play here so I will enlighten you.

They passworded the region initially so they could not be raided, as they are raiders themselves and are a region with a dead founder.

They intend to refound so they don't need a password and can resume raiding and spreading their hate without fear.

All in all it is despicable, but if they are successful this issue will finally die once and for all, and then we can begin arguing about condemning them again until the end of time.

[Grossdeutsches Drittes Reich]

I think your post highlights that you don't understand the politics here. We've been threatened with raid after raid after raid since I've been on NS and in that region (which is basically the entire time I've been on NS), and nothing was done about it for months, it was always laughed off, because in reality nothing ever happened. No real attempts have ever been made.

This has happened since the introduction of a relatively new minister into a circle of ministers who've generally been uninterested in the regions heritage or future, but more for their own discussion board. They've held sway for so long, but now they've overstepped the mark, and ejected a whole load of members who've been in the region for years (I'm a relative newcomer in comparison) and decided to take it on themselves to refound the region, regardless of whether the rest of the region backs them or not.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

If you were to read the recent Liberate NE proposals that have been floating around here (there have been - what? - four or so in the past two months) you would realize that Liberating the region will open Nazi Europe up to invasion and will ultimately (I believe) lead to the destruction of the region by outside forces. A lot of people don't even like the fact that the region exists. You are better off with the password, despite the internal politics of the region that may be in play here as well.

[Grossdeutsches Drittes Reich]

The region is being internally destroyed, I wouldn't say that is any better.

Also you say that assuming that the liberation proposals have actually meant anything, everyone has read through what they mean, they have barely been serious proposals, which makes the threats behind them probably as serious. So in essence they are unsubstantiated threats.

Maybe they're a smokescreen, whose to suggest that the "antifascists" wouldn't like the region to die internally, then when it is so weak that it has few loyal members, they can strike. I don't want to let that happen, I want the region rebuilt, therefore if it is opened then we can work together to build the region back up to strength and defy the socialists who would like to see us destroyed.

I'm also hoping that the defenders of nationstates who seem to prize regional sovereignty would actually do their utmost to protect the region from such incursions, but in it's current state of internal decay, the defenders are unable to do anything. My liberation is to alter that, scenario, if a foreign invasion occurs, I would be the first to see the region re-secured with the help of defenders and in that scenario locked down. That hasn't occurred or even really been attempted, therefore I think all of this talk of "foreign invasion" is superfluous.

[Vladisvok Destino]

The region is being internally destroyed, I wouldn't say that is any better.

The one difference you could argue is that the intent of those "internally destroying" the region is to refound it under the memberships control so that it is more secure. Any foreign invasion would have the intent of destroying the region and at best holding it as a trophy. Out of the two choices NE has a better chance of survival under the former.

Also you say that assuming that the liberation proposals have actually meant anything, everyone has read through what they mean, they have barely been serious proposals, which makes the threats behind them probably as serious. So in essence they are unsubstantiated threats.

Because there is a password in place the threats are unsubstantiated in so much as they cannot be acted upon while it is in place. If you haven't noticed there are enough groups around who would love to take the region as a trophy if given the chance to do so.

Maybe they're a smokescreen, whose to suggest that the "antifascists" wouldn't like the region to die internally, then when it is so weak that it has few loyal members, they can strike.

Except that again as long as the password is in place (and reasonable security measures are used to avoid it getting leaked outside the region) then they can't strike. Again by liberating the region you open it to a larger security risk.

I don't want to let that happen, I want the region rebuilt, therefore if it is opened then we can work together to build the region back up to strength and defy the socialists who would like to see us destroyed.

Or in it's current state it's more likely the socialists you seem to think want to see you destroyed would be successful in that cause.

I'm also hoping that the defenders of nationstates who seem to prize regional sovereignty would actually do their utmost to protect the region from such incursions, but in it's current state of internal decay, the defenders are unable to do anything. My liberation is to alter that, scenario, if a foreign invasion occurs, I would be the first to see the region re-secured with the help of defenders and in that scenario locked down. That hasn't occurred or even really been attempted, therefore I think all of this talk of "foreign invasion" is superfluous.

You might want to see the policies of the major defender groups with regards to defending facist/Nazi/similar regions, you can bet Nazi Europe would be pretty much left on it's own.

Ultimately this doesn't bother me that much, liberate it or don't, but at least be aware that in doing so you pose as much risk to the region as you claim those in power do.

[Galiantus]

I want the region rebuilt, therefore if it is opened then we can work together to build the region back up to strength and defy the socialists who would like to see us destroyed.

By definition, a refounding would also be a rebuilding. Especially of your defenses, which are currently preventing the region from growing. If I was in the shoes of anyone in a region in a similar situation - nazi or not - I would reccomend a refound. With a founder, you will be safe from invasion, free to grow as you please, and you can ensure that only those loyal to the region stay there. I think the decision being made by your ex-region-mates is a logical one that is good for the region.

[Imperium of Tanith]

Mmm interesting.... an individual formerly within Nazi Europe is calling on the international community to assist in bringing in the leaders of NE into accountability.

Does the author realise that if the region was to be liberated it would almost certainly be raided? Or is that the authors intent here?

I almost believe the answer to be yes, so that the current leaders would be removed from power, leaving a gap that the refounded members and exiled can fill. Basically, he wants to liberate it, knowing theyll be raided, giving reason for a Coup to occur, and forcing out the current Ministers of NE.
In simple terms, causing a almost certain bloody revolution without lifting a finger or getting blood on his hands.

This Delegate does applaude this stroke of political genius by the Reich.

And while this Delegate does believe that NE probably needs to clean house in the Government, it will refuse to allow the SC to be the reason of any Government downfall, Nazi or otherwise.
Therefore, Against.

[Captain Woodhouse]

1. Your nation apparently was formerly a member of the very same region that you want the Security Council to liberate now: Nazi Europe. Your new region is titled "Nazi Exiles". Hopefully you do not propose this simply because of resentment but because of a genuine desire to liberate the region.

It's more like toxic love. Drittes is infatuated with NE; the feeling isn't mutual. He's always been a dissatisfied customer. One of his few and far between RMB posts is a clue what's behind his Liberation:

Is this region even national socialist? I mean, I see posts on here than range from vehemently opposed to national socialism to posts that are mildly sympathetic. That's about it. None of the ministers seem to oppose some of the strongly anti-national socialist propaganda (as Morraghana pointed out) being written. This region seems to be soft at best, or a nest of communists at worst!

http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=1164160

The one difference you could argue is that the intent of those "internally destroying" the region is to refound it under the memberships control so that it is more secure. Any foreign invasion would have the intent of destroying the region and at best holding it as a trophy. Out of the two choices NE has a better chance of survival under the former.

Because there is a password in place the threats are unsubstantiated in so much as they cannot be acted upon while it is in place. If you haven't noticed there are enough groups around who would love to take the region as a trophy if given the chance to do so.

You might want to see the policies of the major defender groups with regards to defending facist/Nazi/similar regions, you can bet Nazi Europe would be pretty much left on it's own.

Bang on assessment. Couldn't have said it any better.

By definition, a refounding would also be a rebuilding. Especially of your defenses, which are currently preventing the region from growing. If I was in the shoes of anyone in a region in a similar situation - nazi or not - I would reccomend a refound. With a founder, you will be safe from invasion, free to grow as you please, and you can ensure that only those loyal to the region stay there. I think the decision being made by your ex-region-mates is a logical one that is good for the region.

Another good call—and plenty more in this thread.

I sincerely appreciate all of you educating NE's problem child.

[United Federation of Canada]

Could NE please hurry up and refound their region so this issue can finally DIE once and for all?

[Captain Woodhouse]

Also you say that assuming that the liberation proposals have actually meant anything, everyone has read through what they mean, they have barely been serious proposals, which makes the threats behind them probably as serious. So in essence they are unsubstantiated threats.

Cormac's Lib was fairly serious. The NE ministers you've backstabbed—and Svarttjern, our forum admin—did their best to shoot it down via TG campaign and SC debate. Are you presuming to know how much we did or didn't influence the outcome of that resolution?

. . . whose to suggest that the "antifascists" wouldn't like the region to die internally, then when it is so weak that it has few loyal members, they can strike.

That's exactly what they want; we don't wanna give it to them. From USSR RMB:

Honestly I would've preferred them right where they are. In a founderless region hiding behind a password. You can do more damage with subterfuge and infiltration than you can removing their password and giving them a free ticket to pick a new region, with a founder, to thumb their noses at the world from.

Where they are now, they must maintain vigilance and question any new blood they pick up. Succumb to greed and pass this, inevitably leading to probably the largest battle NS has seen in years, and you give them the very failsafe that's protecting us and thousands of other regions; A founder.

http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=1888855

I'm also hoping that the defenders of nationstates who seem to prize regional sovereignty would actually do their utmost to protect the region from such incursions

Yeah, I see them all rallying around you. If you're as familiar as you say you are with past NE liberation efforts, you'd know the most vocal defender org in the game has a policy against defending Nazi themed regions. Many other defenders also refuse to do so. A couple said they would defend a Nazi region if the members weren't peddling hate.

Care to make a political statement, Drittes? Tell the SC and the defenders you think are gonna help you rescue and rebuild NE what a love monger you are.

The region clearly hasn't been successfully invaded in a year and a 120 days

A couple reasons why the last obvious invasion (about seven mos. ago) failed: 1) Update miscalculation. 2) German Dragons was on the ball. He's one of the most dedicated delegates I've met on NationStates. Dragons' constant vigilance is why NE still swims.

Dragons' and minister diligence have prevented numerous attacks since then. Don't believe it? Ask Cromarty—who supports your Liberation for good reason—the NPA and New Warsaw Pact.

I don't want to let that happen, I want the region rebuilt, therefore if it is opened then we can work together to build the region back up to strength and defy the socialists who would like to see us destroyed.

What a comedian. When have you ever recruited? You sure didn't offer to help me when I put out a recruitment call to all members on the RMB before multiple real threats forced a permanent password.

We asked you to disclose your WA nation and/or join the WA and endorse GD to make the region less vulnerable to attack. You said you would and reneged.

@ Jamie, the region didn't decide. Three or four ministers did, and they clearly don't hold the regions interests in with their own, they never even consulted the region, they just went ahead and decided to eject the majority of its members.

Where'd you get the idea NE was a democracy? German Dragons, Svarttjern, CR, Gregorach and Chicken Cutlet are on board with the current course of action. You and the remaining inactive members and puppets were informed of our decision well in advance to give you the opportunity to move to our safe satellite region. Where are all the other aggrieved members you pretend to represent? None of them have followed you to Nazi Exiles.

This has happened since the introduction of a relatively new minister into a circle of ministers who've generally been uninterested in the regions heritage or future, but more for their own discussion board.

Yeah, I know who that 'relatively new minister' is. Beyond your interminable pique over Nazi Europe's failure to fulfill your expectations, your unjustifiable hostility toward me from the get-go is why you're here.

Have you bothered reading NE Policy on the forum? Any assault on NE will be repelled with utmost prejudice.

You've disclosed confidential TG information in the Security Council, placing NE in the spotlight—again; sabotaging our regional preservation efforts. I consider that, creating Nazi Europeia/flag rip-off, and your liberation draft an assault.