NationStates

The Dourian Embassy wrote:I think you should let that one die.

There's nothing to "let die" because Mousey was never involved in any scandal and her image was never tarnished. Uni just thought that by throwing that out there it would become so, merely because he said it.

Sichuan Pepper wrote:

Unibot III wrote:
Furthermore, it is very difficult to destroy a region without a password since it is easier to intercept such refound attempts. That's why WA Liberated regions are eventually liberated or the raiders leave and Utopia was intercepted by the UDL last time this year before The Phantom Knights could destroy it.

That was not UDL. TITO intercepted it. Please do not make up facts here Unibot. I should know as it was my puppet.

It must be odd living in your world where facts are perverted and distorted. You could not be more incorrect.

October 25 2011 wrote: I am glad to announce that although the Phantom Knights and the Alliance of Dictators tried to motion for the destruction of the region, the United Defenders League did finally liberate Utopia on Oct. 23. Coincidentally, the raiders were able to kick-ban the intended lead and it was the mission’s newbie who actually prevailed. So congratulations to Grackalack!

Source: Taken from our update.

The Phantom Knights and the Alliance of Dictators were trying to destroy Utopia (this was the second time that Alliance of Dictators had tried to destroy Utopia -- the first was one that summer when we liberated Utopia in the WASC). We liberated the region while they were moving out for a refound (they had been piled before then). The lead was not you, it was Grackalack -- who I know is not you, because he was a friend in my University who I trained how to defend.

So please, stop trying to sling mud when your facts are incorrect. I believe you are mixing up the Utopia incident with RORMs, which was a year later.

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The Dourian Embassy wrote:"Scandal"? Really? I think you're overstating your point. I know there was *some* blowback, but it was nothing serious, since she didn't participate at all in said griefing, and indeed didn't know it was actually going to happen until after it already had(at which point she could do nothing about it).

She was outright giddy about a WA region being destroyed, Douria. It affects how people view her, since she tries to convey a public image of someone who cares about native rights and the safety of native communities -- which puts an entirely different light on her Technical proposals for "easier" refounding that give griefers an edge.

Unibot III wrote:

Sichuan Pepper wrote:
That was not UDL. TITO intercepted it. Please do not make up facts here Unibot. I should know as it was my puppet.

It must be odd living in your world where facts are perverted and distorted. You could not be more incorrect.

October 25 2011 wrote: I am glad to announce that although the Phantom Knights and the Alliance of Dictators tried to motion for the destruction of the region, the United Defenders League did finally liberate Utopia on Oct. 23. Coincidentally, the raiders were able to kick-ban the intended lead and it was the mission’s newbie who actually prevailed. So congratulations to Grackalack!

Source: Taken from our update.

The Phantom Knights and the Alliance of Dictators were trying to destroy Utopia (this was the second time that Alliance of Dictators had tried to destroy Utopia -- the first was one that summer when we liberated Utopia in the WASC). We liberated the region while they were moving out for a refound (they had been piled before then). The lead was not you, it was Grackalack -- who I know is not you, because he was a friend in my University who I trained how to defend.

So please, stop trying to sling mud when your facts are incorrect. I believe you are mixing up the Utopia incident with RORMs, which was a year later.

Blissfulness was my puppet and TITO intercepted the refound attempt. Not much more proof than that. Had you said liberation the facts might have been correct. You did not. You claimed a refound interception.

Unibot III wrote:She was outright giddy about a WA region being destroyed, Douria. It affects how people view her, since she tries to convey a public image of someone who cares about native rights and the safety of native communities -- which puts an entirely different light on her Technical proposals for "easier" refounding that give griefers an edge.

It always bugs me when people malign motives behind proposals(of any kind) instead of the actual content. This specific issue may irk you considerably, but it wasn't that serious.

And to note, I have talked to some others about this, and they seem to think you're blowing it out of proportion a bit as well. This is the sort of thing that might, might have some effect if the people listening to your accusations don't give it careful consideration, or don't research it. To the ones that do, it seems that either you're intentionally misleading people as to the seriousness of the supposed "offense" or(and I find this more likely), you're allowing your emotions to color your judgement of an event.

Myself and many others do not see what you do here. I'm fully aware of all the events, and I don't see the picture you're painting. When you tell someone they should disregard what Mouse says because she was "recently caught up in a scandal where she expressed glee at a region being griefed", you disregard all arguments except your own.

You and I both know it wasn't griefing at the time those comments were made, it was just plain raiding on a region tangentially involved in defending. We all fully expected a defender liberation to commence soonish(but the piling made that less likely). There was no scandal, no grand conspiracy. She laughed at something she thought was funny... right?. Nothing about it was serious. Let it go.

Sichuan Pepper wrote:

Unibot III wrote:

It must be odd living in your world where facts are perverted and distorted. You could not be more incorrect.



Source: Taken from our update.

The Phantom Knights and the Alliance of Dictators were trying to destroy Utopia (this was the second time that Alliance of Dictators had tried to destroy Utopia -- the first was one that summer when we liberated Utopia in the WASC). We liberated the region while they were moving out for a refound (they had been piled before then). The lead was not you, it was Grackalack -- who I know is not you, because he was a friend in my University who I trained how to defend.

So please, stop trying to sling mud when your facts are incorrect. I believe you are mixing up the Utopia incident with RORMs, which was a year later.

Blissfulness was my puppet and TITO intercepted the refound attempt. Not much more proof than that. Had you said liberation the facts might have been correct. You did not. You claimed a refound interception.

You need to learn to read the arguments in a paragraph, Wordy and understand when it is inappropriate to use bad semantics to join in a conversation to tell us all what accomplishments TITO has made during its year-long recess from real defending. If you want to tell me what you all do on your time not spent defending, liberating or otherwise helping natives, make a dahm update thread for TITO, don't clog up The Security Council with irrelevant side conversations.

I said it was easier to intercept a refound when the password is down. "Intercept a refound" can mean a liberation in the last minute, it can mean a refound.. any successful intervention to prevent a malicious refound that was permitted because of vulnerabilities opened up by the griefers in their attempt to refound. Because a raider has to remove his own soldiers to refound, if the password is down, this leaves a window of opportunity for so-called "aggressive" defenders to liberate the region during the refound process at the final update.

Furthermore, you know this and were just being inaccurate to throw some shit because you felt like it; otherwise you would have read "The Phantom Knights and the Alliance of Dictators" and had known that this was not the same incident as you were thinking it was.

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It always bugs me when people malign motives behind proposals(of any kind) instead of the actual content. This specific issue may irk you considerably, but it wasn't that serious. She did nothing wrong except laugh at something funny.

And to note, I have talked to some others about this, and they seem to think you're blowing it out of proportion a bit as well. This is the sort of thing that might, might have some effect if the people listening to your accusations don't give it careful consideration, or don't research it. To the ones that do, it seems that either you're intentionally misleading people as to the seriousness of the supposed "offense" or(and I find this more likely), you're allowing your emotions to color your judgement of an event.

Myself and many others do not see what you do here. I'm fully aware of all the events, and I don't see the picture you're painting. When you tell someone they should disregard what Mouse says because she was "recently caught up in a scandal where she expressed glee at a region being griefed", you disregard all arguments except your own.

You and I both know it wasn't griefing at the time those comments were made, it was just plain raiding on a region tangentially involved in defending. We all fully expected a defender liberation to commence soonish(but the piling made that less likely). There was no scandal, no grand conspiracy. She laughed at something she thought was funny. Nothing about it was serious. Let it go.

I was suggesting her "security advice" in this matter was disingenuous, you would be correct to suggest that I would be creating an argument built around accusations, if I hadn't also explained why even if it was genuine security advice, it is incorrect security advice and puts "Republicans" at more extensive risk than a more moderate security plan.

The "actual" content of this resolution is as flimsy as my confidence in either Apollo or Mousebumbles to have the best of intentions for "Republicans"; the leanness of the Security Council's books is simply not something that outweighs the security of the region, bearing in mind, we are in fact the WA Security Council. Bearing in mind, due to its name, Republicans will be a target for griefing if it goes founderless and a Liberation Badge is better protection than a password against region destruction. For one thing, passwords are (1) crackable, sometimes and (2) can be obtained through light reconnaissance, which I see every month or so as a defender and had the pleasure of seeing it done on my own region, (3) make it much more difficult for defenders to defend one's region in the event of (1) or (2). Likewise, most regions don't want to threaten the right to mobility, which passwords do -- and if you still grant the right to mobility even after being passworded, you open yourself up to light reconnaissance. So essentially, passwords aren't that great as a security feature unless you plan on your region being a graveyard or you intend to refound which natives decide to do all of the time with fairly good success -- they come to the Security Council and ask for a repeal then.

This is simply ridiculous. This is not how a liberation repeal talk should work at all.

Is the region liberated?

If yes:

Does the natives want the repeal?

If yes:

GO FOR IT.

As much as should not be suggested to repeal a liberation, WA SHOULD NOT go over natives decision of what to do with their region, especially since there is a founder again. Any other talk in this room is an useless blabbing on other arguments outside the Draft.

Unibot III wrote:I was suggesting her "security advice" in this matter was disingenuous, you would be correct to suggest that I would be creating an argument built around accusations, if I hadn't also explained why even if it was genuine security advice, it is incorrect security advice and puts "Republicans" at more extensive risk than a more moderate security plan.

You did. But you also qualified the argument(in the original quoted post) by saying that the folks you were arguing with weren't viable authorities on the subject because of "Insert accusations here". Which was the point I took issue with. Your viewpoint on the level of risk and security are not sacrosanct, and I'd tend more towards the repeal than not.

You're a defender, I get that. A liberation in place makes your job easier if ever in the future this region is raided. I think the point of the repeal is that they are not children in need of hand holding. The founder is active again. They no longer need the international community's assistance. Let them continue on without it.

You started the argument with a dismissal of the other guys views for their stances. You made assumptions based on their alignments as to their motives and not the content, and worked your way from there into opposition of the content. You've got real reasons to oppose this, but it's not because of some Raider Conspiracy.

How about we get a Native to say one way or the other?

Ambassadors, a quick note from the chair, please stay on topic.

Modly OOC: Knock off the Gameplay chatter.

Cerian Quilor wrote:How about we get a Native to say one way or the other?

Natives are over-rated.

Skyrim Diplomacy wrote:

Cerian Quilor wrote:How about we get a Native to say one way or the other?

Natives are over-rated.

Preach on, Brother. But since everyone else seems obsessed with them...

I support this resolution.

We are a refounded region and this should have been wiped away with the rest of the slate.

Also thanks.

Jeffersonian Republicans wrote:I support this resolution.

We are a refounded region and this should have been wiped away with the rest of the slate.

Also thanks.

*sniffs post*

Is that the smell of well-cooked native in the morning?

I said in the previous page that if this got to vote I was going to vote against. While I think the founder is making a (probably minute) mistake, I would now vote FOR this to align myself with the founder's wishes.

meh

The conduct of Unibot towards nations trying to get involved here has been disappointing. Apollo has been working hard to try to pass legislation to benefit the NS world and Mousebumbles continues to be a positive force within the WA, particularly as she goes out of her way to help people get involved.

Once again we have a raider proposing to repeal a liberation under the guise of "it not being necessary (at the moment)".

You don't want to grief Republicans, but there are ulterior motives behind this resolution and your last; you've been rushing your resolutions to the queue without proper drafting because you want to backlog the Security Council to block an emergency liberation proposal.

Such illogical fear-mongering is innocent misguided paranoia at best and malicious targeting at worst.

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About the draft itself, I am in support as the founder of the region supports it and that it good to get rid of them when they are no longer useful.

Solorni wrote:
Such illogical fear-mongering is innocent misguided paranoia at best and malicious targeting at worst.

Except the co-author has literally declared her desire to do so.

Mahaj wrote:

Solorni wrote:
Such illogical fear-mongering is innocent misguided paranoia at best and malicious targeting at worst.

Except the co-author has literally declared her desire to do so.

Can you show me the quote saying that Mousebumbles wants Republicans to be destroyed?

Final Draft

The Security Council,

Acknowledging the purpose of Security Council Resolution #41, "Liberate Republicans," to help return the region to the native nations of Republicans by restoring free entry to the region and removing a password imposed by the Nazi-affiliated region The Greater German Reich,

Noting the Security Council's support of Republicans in their time of need,

Recognizing that the native nations of Republicans wish for this Liberation to be lifted so that they can determine the future path of their region,

Understanding that there is now an active Founding Nation that has the ability to suppress foreign invasions from enemy groups,

Applauding that the founder has limit WA Delegate access to regional control for regional security,

Realizing that the Liberation currently in effect for this region is unnecessary as the region is not at risk for future invasions,

Observing that this Resolution was enacted over a year and a half ago and that foreign invaders are no longer present,

Cognizant of the fact that Republicans’ native population has grown since the enactment of the Liberation,

Believing that this Liberation is no longer required and that the ability to password protect the region should be returned to the community of Republicans,

Hereby Repeals Liberate Republicans.

Solorni wrote:

Mahaj wrote:Except the co-author has literally declared her desire to do so.

Can you show me the quote saying that Mousebumbles wants Republicans to be destroyed?

No...

but she has said that she

wants to backlog the Security Council to block an emergency liberation proposal.

Mahaj wrote:

Solorni wrote:Can you show me the quote saying that Mousebumbles wants Republicans to be destroyed?

No...

but she has said that she

wants to backlog the Security Council to block an emergency liberation proposal.

Where is that quote from?

I have not seen any evidence of any such speeches by Ambassador Hale of Mousebumples. I therefore request evidence, or we will condemn Mahaj for falsiflying evidence on the WA floor. We also hereby order a complete ban on all Mahaj residents on entering Moronist Decisions without passing an approved 500 hour ethics and laboratory course.

On IRC Mahaj showed me their proof: http://www.imagebam.com/image/3ff7d6214711808

Where she says

"Is it wrong that I almost (key word being almost) want to get some new SC props to vote just to **** with the wait time?"
"It would make it more entertaining."

This is not what the ambassadors Mahaj and Unibot have been claiming at all.

Because people have never gone from "Almost wanting to" to "wanting to and doing it".

Mahaj wrote:Because people have never gone from "Almost wanting to" to "wanting to and doing it".

And you ignore the 'it would be entertaining'.


#UDLIgnoresfactsagain