[DRAFT] Liberate Eastern Islands of Dharma

[Mallorea and Riva]

The region was dead Fratt. Nothing was happening in there.

Regardless of how active it is, raiders have targeted EID because of who used to call it home. EID is a highly symbolic region in gameplay and the General Assembly. In the GA, it formed half of long-standing "EID vs. AO" feud, which is why members of Antarctic Oasis were so eager to help out in raiding the region, a fact you very well know, as you're the one who counseled them on it. The sole purpose of the raid was to add insult to injury. As you said, you want "the complete and utter destruction of the region," and I think it's pretty obvious by now that the goal is to refound.

Yes, EID was "closed" by Unibot, and there was little to no activity for months beforehand. That doesn't matter. This isn't some unheard-of region. There is a very specific reason why raiders are still there, and it has nothing to do with "revitalizing" or "reinvigorating" the region. The endgame here is a locked region with a WFE highlighting the pettiness of this whole affair.

You should know, you abandoned the region just like Unibot did well before it was raided I was unaware that EID was such a mecca of activity and importance that it deserves to be saved. Believe it or not if I were to one day become the founder of EID I actually would have plans for creating a region out of it. That's more than I can say for the previous state of the region, a dead husk. If it's so petty, be the better man and turn the other cheek.

[Human Metrinome]

Wow this has turned into one hell of a debate, but has little to do with the intent of this thread. I genuinely want to craft a Liberation proposal for EID. Any input on this would,be welcome.

[Glen-Rhodes]

You should know, you abandoned the region just like Unibot did well before it was raided I was unaware that EID was such a mecca of activity and importance that it deserves to be saved.

I would be fine with seeing EID cease to exist. What I am not fine with is seeing it displayed as a trophy, with the only intent being to insult a group of people in a petty, grade school fashion.

Believe it or not if I were to one day become the founder of EID I actually would have plans for creating a region out of it. That's more than I can say for the previous state of the region, a dead husk. If it's so petty, be the better man and turn the other cheek.

Yes, we are all very aware of how griefers like yourself revitalize and reinvigorate regions, transforming them into cities on their hills. Please don't insult us, Mall. We are all very aware of the disdain you have for Unibot and others, and how EID is the personification of that disdain.

Wow this has turned into one hell of a debate, but has little to do with the intent of this thread. I genuinely want to craft a Liberation proposal for EID. Any input on this would,be welcome.

You should try to explain that EID is being targeted not because of its inactivity, but because of what it represents to the broader NationStates. Also, you should emphasize that the raiders will likely wait to the last moments to password the region, and that a preemptive liberation is necessary to prevent the region from being refounded as a permanent trophy. Of course, all of this would need to comply with the relevant Security Council rules.

[Octavius Caesar]

I am against this for one, this would send a troubling precedent. We could just go through all the founderless regions and "liberate" them so no raiders could grief them? Right?! No more refounds! Yay!...

No. The Security Council could prevent almost every raid if this precedent were set. If you want to liberate when there actually is a password, fine, I'm against it but that's not what we're talking here. But then this would actually work with the system, instead of breaking R/D. The whole point of a liberation is to free a region when you can't do anything else against it. You can still go in and liberate it.

Against and I will campaign against if this comes to vote.

[Unibot III]

No. The Security Council could prevent almost every raid malicious refound attempt if this precedent were set.

Let's not forget the two are not the same. Thank you.

[Mallorea and Riva]

You should know, you abandoned the region just like Unibot did well before it was raided I was unaware that EID was such a mecca of activity and importance that it deserves to be saved.

I would be fine with seeing EID cease to exist. What I am not fine with is seeing it displayed as a trophy, with the only intent being to insult a group of people in a petty, grade school fashion.

Again GR if you view this side of R/D as petty then stay out of it. Attacking a defender region is par for the course as far as R/D is concerned.

Believe it or not if I were to one day become the founder of EID I actually would have plans for creating a region out of it. That's more than I can say for the previous state of the region, a dead husk. If it's so petty, be the better man and turn the other cheek.

Yes, we are all very aware of how griefers like yourself revitalize and reinvigorate regions, transforming them into cities on their hills. Please don't insult us, Mall. We are all very aware of the disdain you have for Unibot and others, and how EID is the personification of that disdain.

That's why I said believe it or not GR you obviously choose not to believe me.

Wow this has turned into one hell of a debate, but has little to do with the intent of this thread. I genuinely want to craft a Liberation proposal for EID. Any input on this would,be welcome.

You should try to explain that EID is being targeted not because of its inactivity, but because of what it represents to the broader NationStates. Also, you should emphasize that the raiders will likely wait to the last moments to password the region, and that a preemptive liberation is necessary to prevent the region from being refounded as a permanent trophy. Of course, all of this would need to comply with the relevant Security Council rules.

You should simply include all the relevant details. That EID is a dead region, abandoned by those who once called it home, and upon seeing others trying to put it under new management they have suddenly felt a since of obligation to their old home, stirring them to try and restore it to its state as a locked, dying region. Then again the truth probably won't get your proposal passed, so you may have to get creative.

[Mallorea and Riva]

I would be fine with seeing EID cease to exist. What I am not fine with is seeing it displayed as a trophy, with the only intent being to insult a group of people in a petty, grade school fashion.

Again GR if you view this side of R/D as petty then stay out of it. Attacking a defender region is par for the course as far as R/D is concerned.

Yes, we are all very aware of how griefers like yourself revitalize and reinvigorate regions, transforming them into cities on their hills. Please don't insult us, Mall. We are all very aware of the disdain you have for Unibot and others, and how EID is the personification of that disdain.

That's why I said believe it or not GR you obviously choose not to believe me.

You should try to explain that EID is being targeted not because of its inactivity, but because of what it represents to the broader NationStates. Also, you should emphasize that the raiders will likely wait to the last moments to password the region, and that a preemptive liberation is necessary to prevent the region from being refounded as a permanent trophy. Of course, all of this would need to comply with the relevant Security Council rules.

You should simply include all the relevant details. That EID is a dead region, abandoned by those who once called it home, and upon seeing others trying to put it under new management they have suddenly felt a since of obligation to their old home, stirring them to try and restore it to its state as a locked, dying region. Then again the truth probably won't get your proposal passed, so you may have to get creative.

No. The Security Council could prevent almost every raid malicious refound attempt if this precedent were set.

Let's not forget the two are not the same. Thank you.

Indeed, we're putting Dharma out of its misery, this raid is certainly not malicious.

[Octavius Caesar]

No. The Security Council could prevent almost every raid malicious refound attempt if this precedent were set.

Let's not forget the two are not the same. Thank you.

This is setting a precedent of taking away an end goal for raids. Also feel free to comment on the rest of my post because reiterating those points on an iPod sucks.

[Cormac Stark]

Let's not forget the two are not the same. Thank you.

This is setting a precedent of taking away an end goal for raids. Also feel free to comment on the rest of my post because reiterating those points on an iPod sucks.

I think this was the core of your argument, but if I'm missing another point feel free to correct me.

This assumes that malicious refounding is the end goal of all or even most raids when in fact that isn't the case. Regions like The Cat Burglars and Europeia never even grief the regions they raid, The New Inquisition and The Land of Kings and Emperors rarely if ever do (especially in the recent past), and even professional raider organizations like The Black Riders and The Black Hawks aren't in the business of frequently refounding the regions they hold and grief anymore. Given the rarity in which malicious refounds take place or are even attempted I don't think setting a preemptive liberation precedent would do much if any damage to raiding specifically or the overall R/D game in general. Additionally, refounding isn't even made impossible by a liberation resolution -- it's just made more difficult.

[Mallorea and Riva]

This is setting a precedent of taking away an end goal for raids. Also feel free to comment on the rest of my post because reiterating those points on an iPod sucks.

I think this was the core of your argument, but if I'm missing another point feel free to correct me.

This assumes that malicious refounding is the end goal of all or even most raids when in fact that isn't the case. Regions like The Cat Burglars and Europeia never even grief the regions they raid, The New Inquisition and The Land of Kings and Emperors rarely if ever do (especially in the recent past), and even professional raider organizations like The Black Riders and The Black Hawks aren't in the business of frequently refounding the regions they hold and grief anymore. Given the rarity in which malicious refounds take place or are even attempted I don't think setting a preemptive liberation precedent would do much if any damage to raiding specifically or the overall R/D game in general. Additionally, refounding isn't even made impossible by a liberation resolution -- it's just made more difficult.

Much, much more difficult. Frankly I'm still surprised. If you think we're going to go for the refound, wait for the booting of the last native, then the lock, toss the Liberation proposal in then, and just watch the region for the next couple of days. You know we'll go for it in that timeframe, refounding a Liberated region is a massive pain. Like I've said before, it's not like preserving Dharma in its present state is doing anyone a favor.

[Octavius Caesar]

Cormac the point is then what? Do we start "liberating" founderless regions so they can't be refounded? And while refounds are rarer these days they still happen and are a significant chunk of R/D. Let's say we were taking away tagging, it isn't the biggest part of R/D but it still is significant. But that's not the point. Liberations are meant to open up a region so it can be liberated by defenders. Because with a password on you guys can't come in and "save the day" and all. But with no password, there is no need for this. You guys can still come in and liberate it. Not to mention yet another terribly written proposal that should not even be considered by the Security Council. I feel that setting this precedent is opening up a whole can of worms in the future that we shouldn't have to deal with.

No Refound raids

Taking Preventative Measures on founderless regions that have not even been raided

Taking away sinificantly from R/D

Crappy proposal

And keep saying "Malicious Refound" it sounds like a plug

[Cromarty]

Taking away sinificantly from R/D

This is an excellent reason to do anything.

The sooner R/D is gone the better NS will be.

[Firstaria]

Let's read the definition of liberation.

A resolution to strike down Delegate-imposed barriers to free entry in a region.

Now, I'm a pro-defender for years, and I know the meaning of this. But first and foremost I'm a WA supporter as an organism that should NOT serve only as a meaning to play the R/D game.
The Eastern Islands of Dharma had clearly been conquered way too much time ago, and the lack of interest in the natives to reclaim and reconquer it is really evident at this point. The fact that the raiders too are paying less attention to it is boosting a chance of liberating it...but this is NOT the way.

As much as I don't approve Raiders actions, the idea of using liberation to open the doors to a war in a region goes against my belief. The liberation is used when the native community, with the support of the WA community, agrees that the passlock of a region is against the region interest, and so they decide to ask the WA for the shot down of the password. It could be easily seen as a mean of defend, I see more as a mean to avoid that the R/D game would be imposed on regions without any way for them to rebel to it, thing that the ban-eject does already enough IMO.

Since no metagaming regulation on the R/D game is seen for now in the future, it's up to us players to make sure that the WA doesn't become just a way to play that game, and so unless there is a strong native response I don't see the reason to launch this liberation. There is no password, therefore there is nothing to strike down.


ESPECIALLY if the text is the one on page 1.