[DRAFT] Condemn The Red Fleet

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

The Security Council;

NOTING that ANTIFA was once a venerable antifascist organisation, setting out to make the world a better place,

PRAISING the leadership of the nation of Proletaurus, ANTIFA's previous commander, under which the organisation prospered, destroying many fascist regions in the process and spreading the righteous cause of antifascism,

AWARE that control of ANTIFA recently passed to the nations of La Pasionaria and Marxingrad, both senior members of The Red Fleet,

NOTING that since then, The Red Fleet has increased its control over ANTIFA, to the extent that dissenting nations, and those offering other opinions, and now driven out of the organisation and labelled as "fascist collaborators",

DISMAYED by this dictatorial control of the organisation, sadly very much altered from its previously more tolerant leadership,

DEEPLY DISAPPROVING of the vile hate-speech propagated in the region of Capitalism, announcing "extremely hard and violent re-education for its former inhabitants",

FURTHER AWARE that since the coup d'état within ANTIFA, the name ANTIFA has been used in various attacks upon non-fascist regions by the Fleet in an attempt to legitimise these attacks, despite the objections of some of the nations within ANTIFA,

DISGUSTED that one of these victim regions, Corporate Profit Alliance, had possessed an embassy with ANTIFA for 1 year before its invasion by the Fleet,

VIEWING this attack as a naked act of aggression upon an innocent region, carried out in tandem with other actions, including the demonisation of Asgard, to "purge" ANTIFA of all non-communist elements and so bring the organisation more fully under the Fleet's command,

ALSO TAKING INTO ACCOUNT the Fleet's tendency to try and dictate the foreign policy of regions with which it has embassies in order to bend them to its will,

ALARMED by these grotesque violations of regional sovereignty,

OBSERVING WITH CONSTERNATION the complete refusal of the Red Fleet's High Command, including those nations which now control ANTIFA, to be held accountable for or attempt to justify their actions,

BELIEVING that if the Fleet is incapable of self-criticism and an honest evaluation of its own actions, and the despicable nature thereof, then the Security Council should intervene in order to send a message to the Fleet,

HEREBY CONDEMNS The Red Fleet.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's just a draft, and it needs work, but I thought it seemed OK as a beginning. Please feel free to tear into it.

Oh, and to pic-quote Koth from a couple of days ago,

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

Looks good for a first draft. I can't spot any blatant illegalities on a first read.

[Defendingg]

might want to add in something about capitalist and IMF.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

might want to add in something about capitalist and IMF.

If, as appears to be the case, then they're just refounds from 8 years ago, then they're refounds from 8 years ago and not really condemnable. That'd be my $0.02, but if it gets support, I might add it in.

[Defendingg]

might want to add in something about capitalist and IMF.

If, as appears to be the case, then they're just refounds from 8 years ago, then they're refounds from 8 years ago and not really condemnable. That'd be my $0.02, but if it gets support, I might add it in.

History: Capitalist
« Back to Capitalist

Major Events

96 days ago: Embassy cancelled between Obsolesence and Capitalist.
129 days ago: Embassy established between Capitalist and Capitalism.
148 days ago: Embassy established between Capitalist and The Internationale.
172 days ago: Embassy established between Obsolesence and Capitalist.
178 days ago: Region founded by The SRBT System Overlords of Un-Capitalists.

Close enough imo

Forget about IMF, looks like that was an Internationale operation.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

Seems like a fair proposal, I'll back it.

[Manegarmr]

ALSO TAKING INTO ACCOUNT the Fleet's tendency to try and dictate the foreign policy of regions with which it has embassies in order to bend them to its will

Heresay - if you are going to insist on retaining this part would suggest you provide specific examples, who, where, when, how

[Nationalist State of Knox]

ALSO TAKING INTO ACCOUNT the Fleet's tendency to try and dictate the foreign policy of regions with which it has embassies in order to bend them to its will

Heresay - if you are going to insist on retaining this part would suggest you provide specific examples, who, where, when, how

That would be his old region, UNAF, and several incidents involving Communist International and La Pasionaria, although I'm sure he could fill you in on the specifics when he's online.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Heresay - if you are going to insist on retaining this part would suggest you provide specific examples, who, where, when, how

That would be his old region, UNAF, and several incidents involving Communist International and La Pasionaria, although I'm sure he could fill you in on the specifics when he's online.

I'm like Betelgeuse - say my name too often and I appear.

ALSO TAKING INTO ACCOUNT the Fleet's tendency to try and dictate the foreign policy of regions with which it has embassies in order to bend them to its will

Heresay - if you are going to insist on retaining this part would suggest you provide specific examples, who, where, when, how

- My former home region, UNAF, about 50 days ago. See here for a discussion with CI (Communist International), a Red Fleet front region, about the incident.
- With the Red Fleet, because we had a forum consulate with Asgard, an anti-fascist region who took down such Nazi regions as Hitler Topia and The Greater German Reich Recruitment, and TRF somewhat objected to us having a forum consulate with a region who *gasp* weren't communist.
- Essentially, CI's embassy with us was closed before any negotiation took place, and when I asked La Pasionaria and ForeStarnya as to why, I was told "You must work it out for yourself". Eventually it became obvious, and I complied with their demands, but the embassy was still closed.

Attempts to influence other regions' foreign policy, just like I said, and it ain't hearsay.

[Manegarmr]

- My former home region, UNAF, about 50 days ago. See here for a discussion with CI (Communist International), a Red Fleet front region, about the incident.
- With the Red Fleet, because we had a forum consulate with Asgard, an anti-fascist region who took down such Nazi regions as Hitler Topia and The Greater German Reich Recruitment, and TRF somewhat objected to us having a forum consulate with a region who *gasp* weren't communist.
- Essentially, CI's embassy with us was closed before any negotiation took place, and when I asked La Pasionaria and ForeStarnya as to why, I was told "You must work it out for yourself". Eventually it became obvious, and I complied with their demands, but the embassy was still closed.

Attempts to influence other regions' foreign policy, just like I said, and it ain't hearsay.

Decidedly suspect ground IMHO

You are letting a perceived personal slight color your reasoning - on one hand you are trying to condemn them:

"ALARMED by these grotesque violations of regional sovereignty"

Yet your own justification is them exercising their sovereign right to choose with whom the have regions or associate?

If you are arguing that they have violated sovereignty you cannot in the same breath deny them the right to exercise the same as, by extrapolation, doing so negates the concept of sovereignty, and thus removes your principle reason for the condemnation

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Decidedly suspect ground IMHO

You are letting a perceived personal slight color your reasoning - on one hand you are trying to condemn them:

"ALARMED by these grotesque violations of regional sovereignty"

Yet your own justification is them exercising their sovereign right to choose with whom the have regions or associate?

If you are arguing that they have violated sovereignty you cannot in the same breath deny them the right to exercise the same as, by extrapolation, doing so negates the concept of sovereignty, and thus removes your principle reason for the condemnation

I am arguing that they have attempted to dictate foreign policy to other regions with which they have embassies, rather than letting their allies control their own foreign relations. Condemning them for attempting to control other regions' foreign policies for their own ends is hardly violating their sovereignty.

[Manegarmr]

[I am arguing that they have attempted to dictate foreign policy to other regions with which they have embassies, rather than letting their allies control their own foreign relations. Condemning them for attempting to control other regions' foreign policies for their own ends is hardly violating their sovereignty.

Right

So are you saying that the choice of which embassies a regions has, or does not have, for whatever reason, is not a decision that the region has sovereignity over?

Because it sounds to me that on the one hand you want to choose who you have embassies with, but that other people may not choose who they have embassies with.

"Do what I say, not what I do"

[Everbeek]

[I am arguing that they have attempted to dictate foreign policy to other regions with which they have embassies, rather than letting their allies control their own foreign relations. Condemning them for attempting to control other regions' foreign policies for their own ends is hardly violating their sovereignty.

Right

So are you saying that the choice of which embassies a regions has, or does not have, for whatever reason, is not a decision that the region has sovereignity over?

Because it sounds to me that on the one hand you want to choose who you have embassies with, but that other people may not choose who they have embassies with.

"Do what I say, not what I do"

The point is not that they closed their embassies with his region, the point is that they pressured him into stopping diplomatic relations with another reason.

[Frattastan]

To me, this seems motivated by a personal grievance between the author and his former group.

---

"The Security Council

Noting my grievances with the current leadership of group,
Aware that I dislike NationA and NationB because they kicked me for working with an imperialist region,
Curiously noting that I'm not particularly concerned with the concept of sovereignty of any region, being an invader myself,

Hereby adds some operative clause."

Opposed.

[Cinistra]

To me, this seems motivated by a personal grievance between the author and his former group.

---

"The Security Council

Noting my grievances with the current leadership of group,
Aware that I dislike NationA and NationB because they kicked me for working with an imperialist region,
Curiously noting that I'm not particularly concerned with the concept of sovereignty of any region, being an invader myself,

Hereby adds some operative clause."

Opposed.

Their practice of region destroying means nothing?

[Proletaurus]

FEW FACTS

1. I founded The Red Fleet, TRF.
2. I Founded Antifa
3. When Doing so I was Red Fleet's Squadron Admiral
4. When I resigned From The Fleet's Admiralty Board and Retired from Rank of Squadron Admiral, I Left responsibilities to handle regions Red Fleet and Antifa to Comrades La Pasionaria and Marxingrad. Access to Founder puppet of both regions were already Collectivisised with aforementined Comrades.
5. I have still access to both Founder Puppets, even after my retirement I have login them only few times and only because of some urgent reasons.
6. The Red Fleet is in-game region of The Red Fleet, not The Red Fleet itself. Region's Main purpose is gather Links to Comrade- and Comrade-in-arms-regions, participants to TRF.
7. TRF is participatory member of Antifa.
8. Comrades La Pasionaria and Marxingrad have my full Trust and what ever they see suitable to do in their roles of Founder puppet Controllers, I know they could handle job much more better than I ever did.
9. There willn't ever be room for Fascist Collaborators either in ranks of The Red Fleet or among Antifa Operatives and Volunteers.

Proletaurus
Retired Squadron Admiral of The Red Fleet, TRF Member
Original Founder of Antifa & region The Red Fleet
Syndicated Red Black Tendencies of The Internationale

P.S. 10. Regions IMF and Capitalist are both my foundings and they are under my Control. I try to take out more these kind of cesspits if I ever could. Hellholes out of Order under my account are catalogged at SRBT.

...And Of course I am FOR Condemnation, even this draft seems tinkered by Person with questionable motives.

[Dagguerro]

We do not support this condemnation because frankly we are amused by the idea of Antifa having such problems. The disgusting attitude of many of their members in these halls means I would be very much surprised if this passes.

Then again, many representatives do not even pay attention to the goings on, so I suppose a well organised votes campaign could do it

- Lord Swift

[Defendingg]

P.S. 10. Regions IMF and Capitalist are both my foundings and they are under my Control. I try to take out more these kind of cesspits if I ever could. Hellholes out of Order under my account are catalogged at SRBT.

Do you have proof that either of these two regions were Nazi/fascist regions?

[Proletaurus]

No proofs. They are IMF and Capitalist tagged 'Fascist' or not.

Why I should need any proofs, If I did found CTEing IMF and Celebrated Mayday by Founding Capitalist? Is it Condemnable Act if You found region in NationStates Game?

[Defendingg]

No proofs. They are IMF and Capitalist tagged 'Fascist' or not.

Why I should need any proofs, If I did found CTEing IMF and Celebrated Mayday by Founding Capitalist? Is it Condemnable Act if You found region in NationStates Game?

lolwut?

It says from the SRBT WFE:

-> Syndicated Red Black Tendencies <-

SRBT will keep these Nazi/Fascist Hellholes Permanently Out of Order:
KKK
NSDAP
White Power
White Aryan Resistance
The Aryan Army
Blood and Honor
Fascist Union
Anticommunist Union
Anders Behring Breivik
AntiJihadism
The Falange Movement
Adolf Hitler
Hitler Jugend
Anti Leftist League
Alliance of National Socialist Nations
The National Socialist Nations
Fascist deutschland
New national socialists
United national socialist states
Imperial Nazi Germany
Mein Kampf
Dictators of the world Unite
Fascist America
The 3rd reich
The fourth german reich
WaffenSS
The Nazi Europe
Reichskommissariate der NE
Capitalist
IMF

ONLY GOOD NAZI IS A DEAD ONE!

And you apparently have no proof they were Nazi/fascist regions, even though you claim so on your own WFE. Which one is it?

[Proletaurus]

There are 3. types of regions.

1. Old Historical 'Fascist' tagged regions originally obbliterated (invaded and refounded) by The MT Army, which were again taken Out of Order by me or some other Antifa-Comrade.
2. Regions closed properly by Antifa-operation, Locked and then refounded.
3. Pre-emptive confiscations (founded without knowledge of past history) to Block out 'good' fascist/nazi region names, so they could not be used by fascists/nazis.

There are about 400+ such regions currently controlled by Antifa-Network.

Proofs or not. Where we need proofs? It's just same is this or that region been really 'fascist' region in history of NationStates, because we try to keep them out of that kind of uses in Future. Condemnable? Commendable?

Condemn Antifa-Topics would be better place for this discussion.

[Defendingg]

There are 3. types of regions.

1. Old Historical 'Fascist' tagged regions originally obbliterated (invaded and refounded) by The MT Army, which were again taken Out of Order by me or some other Antifa-Comrade.
2. Regions closed properly by Antifa-operation, Locked and then refounded.
3. Pre-emptive confiscations (founded without knowledge of past history) to Block out 'good' fascist/nazi region names, so they could not be used by fascists/nazis.

There are about 400+ such regions currently controlled by Antifa-Network.

Proofs or not. Where we need proofs? It's just same is this or that region been really 'fascist' region in history of NationStates, because we try to keep them out of that kind of uses in Future. Condemnable? Commendable?

Condemn Antifa-Topics would be better place for this discussion.

What are you talking about?

1. I doubt Capitalist and IMF are historical fascist tagged regions.
2. This does not prove that they were Nazi/Fascist regions
3. I highly doubt Capitalist and Nazi had any chance of ever being used by Nazis and fascists.

On your damn SRBT WFE, you put Capitalist and IMF on the same list as Adolf Hitler and KKK, saying that they are "Nazi/Fascist Hellholes Permanently Out of Order". I'm asking you can you justify with facts that these regions were Nazi/Fascist regions. You certainly can't justify that they could have been used as Nazi/Fascist regions and still keep a straight face. If you can, then you're really stupid.

[Marxingrad]

The Security Council;

NOTING that ANTIFA was once a venerable antifascist organisation, setting out to make the world a better place,

PRAISING the leadership of the nation of Proletaurus, ANTIFA's previous commander, under which the organisation prospered, destroying many fascist regions in the process and spreading the righteous cause of antifascism,

AWARE that control of ANTIFA recently passed to the nations of La Pasionaria and Marxingrad, both senior members of The Red Fleet,

NOTING that since then, The Red Fleet has increased its control over ANTIFA, to the extent that dissenting nations, and those offering other opinions, and now driven out of the organisation and labelled as "fascist collaborators",

DISMAYED by this dictatorial control of the organisation, sadly very much changed from its previous leadership

FURTHER AWARE that since the coup d'état within ANTIFA, the name ANTIFA has been used in various attacks upon non-fascist regions in an attempt to legitimise them,

DISGUSTED that one of these victim regions, Corporate Profit Alliance, had possessed an embassy with ANTIFA for 1 year before its invasion by the Fleet,

VIEWING this attack as a naked act of aggression upon an innocent region, carried out in order to "purge" ANTIFA of all non-communist elements and so bring the organisation more fully under the Fleet's command,

ALSO TAKING INTO ACCOUNT the Fleet's tendency to try and dictate the foreign policy of regions with which it has embassies in order to bend them to its will,

ALARMED by these grotesque violations of regional sovereignty,

OBSERVING WITH CONSTERNATION the complete refusal of the Red Fleet's High Command, including those nations which now control ANTIFA, to be held accountable for or attempt to justify their actions,

HEREBY CONDEMNS The Red Fleet.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's just a draft, and it needs work, but I thought it seemed OK as a beginning. Please feel free to tear into it.

Oh, and to pic-quote Koth from a couple of days ago,

(Image)

So I've seen about 3-4 attempts at trying to condemn Antifa in this forum. I expected this sooner or later. From you FreeSoc? I'm disappointed.

I want to make a couple of comments, if I may? Proletaurus was a senior member of The Red Fleet, along with myself and La Pasionaria, we were all Admirals in the Fleet when we ran Antifa. Proletaurus resigned from the Fleet the same time he handed the administrative controls of Antifa to myself and La Pasionaria. Antifa has almost always been run by a member of the Fleet, it's just changed hands a little bit (I say almost, because Antifa existed, I believe, before Proletaurus was a member of the Fleet) and it was Proletaurus himself that took both IMF and Capitalist.

Therefore your implication that it was a coup d'état is wrong on two counts. First the region was given to me and Pasionaria to run. Second, it's always been under administration by a member of the Fleet.

VIEWING this attack as a naked act of aggression upon an innocent region, carried out in order to "purge" ANTIFA of all non-communist elements and so bring the organisation more fully under the Fleet's command

This comment is just wrong. Consider that no-one, except yourself, has left Antifa since the invasion of CPA began. Not only that, but you were ejected from Antifa before it had come to light that an operation was going on in CPA. You were also ejected not because of any Capitalist sympathies, you still try and maintain you are a libertarian leftie of sorts, but because you are now working with Knox as an invader, Knox being an ex member of GGR a famed Nazi region. Ergo, Fascist.

I stand by the Command's decision to attack CPA, if members of Antifa feel they have been poorly represented by this attack, it is entirely up to them to publicly distance themselves from this act as they choose, but your general line of argument is simply false, because primarily it suggests there has been a monumental change in who "leads" Antifa. Antifa has no "leadership", the Fleet does, and the region is maintained by members of the Fleet.

The Fleet has not initiated any takeover of Antifa. It appears you now disagree with the goals of the Fleet, though you once were a leading Antifascist and self-proclaimed libertarian. It seems your entire cause for concern is actually more an issue of semantics.

[Proletaurus]

ON PROOFS

So, IMF and Capitalist were never 'fascist' tagged. Me, In my alleged stubidity consider them representing that and not only in Game of NationStates. They are catalogged to same list for easier access to keep them sufficiently 'alive' i.e. 1 login/55-59 days. Good enough.

Sources for some Proofs:
The MT Army Website:
http://themtarmy.webs.com/regions.htm

Latest Update of 'Hellholes out of Order' at RMB of Antifa 58 Days ago. More recent developments on that same RMB after that List. Also Check Regional Defence Committee's RMB.

Check Also Antifa HQ.

Then use NSHistory to every region, list their history and send TG to me. I would be gratefully for your dedication.
The Program at http://nsdossier.texasregion.net/history.aspx

Then add all 'errors' and 'false claims' to The Red Fleet's Condemnation Draft and Be Happy for your deeds.

Regions itself will remain in hands of Anti-Fascists. This topic doesn't change that. Take it easy. You will have lot to do.

Sincerely,
Proletaurus

[Defendingg]

You were the one who claimed that such regions are Nazi/Fascists. It is asinine to then tell other people to justify why they shouldn't have been invaded, when you made the decision to take them over in the first place. The burden falls on those making the claim.

The fact that you still cannot prove that they were Nazi/Fascist regions is comedy gold.

ON PROOFS

Me, In my alleged stubidity consider them representing that and not only in Game of NationStates.

And how exactly do they represent that [Nazism and Fascism?]