(DRAFT)Condemn AntiFa

[Nodin]

If they were walking on eggshells, that implies they were actually concealing their true intentions, or at the very least diluting them to appease us.

Sorry, that's not the implication. Diplomacy works, but you've no respect for that either. Why did Antifa agree to an embassy with CPA if it doubted the sincerity of CPA's diplomacy?

Also you talk about intolerance, but lump in widows, immigrants and Arabs with "druggies and sundry criminals"

Comrade Hungry Freaks owns that lump. I merely paraphrased his sympathies.

Your hatred for those who don't fit into your little conservative model of white, male-dominated Europe/America is almost seeping over, better try and put a liberal lid on it soon!!

Your last two posts are pretty funny, Kikomunisti. I can see how much of an aversion you have to emotive language and skew.

The monica "Antifa" has been used by the delegate heading the mission, that isn't to say specifically that it's endorsed by Antifa, or that Antifa's policy is to attack Capitalist regions.

The 'delegate heading the mission' is Squadron Admiral of The Internationale Antifa Brigades Squadron, aka Saornil/Rebelde/Pasionara, aka The Internationale's founder. Pasionara and prominent TI member Marxingrad/BerZerk head Antifa. If that ain't an Antifa and a TI endorsement, tell me what is? You're running out of smoke to blow up the proverbial trapdoor.

By the way, are you Marxingrad?

The draft was proposed by a member of well known Nazi-raider region and the other largest has representatives (in all sorts of disguises admittedly) commenting as well.

You're somewhat confused. I'm here on behalf of myself and am hardly incognito. You know who I am. Straight from your most recent crystal ball readings: white, conservative Euro-American male; petit bourgeois opportunist. Who are the other supposed reps in disguise?

I responded to this thread using my main because I'll draft a Condemnation—using my main—should Jekrehnot abandon his efforts and provided no one else beats me to it before I'm free to focus and campaign in a couple weeks.

It's not our fault you can't muster more than a handful of soldiers at best..

.

You've put that out there twice, so I'll answer the charge. I almost feel I should pull something to threaten the interregional community again—like applying to join the WA with one of my puppets. I mean how long can you insist I'm wearing a black hat without me actually doing the nasty? I've no time or inclination to play virtual Rambo. Give it a rest, man.

All in all, I doubt if the Fleet got a condemnation it'd affect it in any negative way, and personally I'd quite like a condemnation badge (if ones going so easily), so guys have at thee!

I think you mean 'have at me!' Thee is you, singular objective case. I know thou wilt relish a badge, but I'm disinclined to give thee thy heart's desire.

What's The Red Fleet, but a puppet dump for the big cheeses in The Internationale and Antifa? I want the badge applied to the region most likely to benefit from a wake-up call. That would not be a puppet dump.

[Kikomunisti]

Nonetheless, The Red Fleet is a member of Antifa and we felt that this raid constituted close enough to an "Antifascist" operation.

Because casual capitalist regions are just the same as fascist regions.

I've also heard you promoted the ideal of attacking regions that were "Stalinist" or "Maoist", how very Antifascist of you. Hypocrite!

Fascism is not necessarily right-wing, nor does it always call itself fascism.

Here lies the complete inconsistency of your argument.

Capitalism =/= Fascism
Stalinism = Fascism

Yet there are tonnes of quotes which offer the idea that Fascism is "closer" to Capitalism.
Fascism is capitalism in decay. (ascribed to Lenin)
or
Fascism is capitalism plus murder. ~ Upton Sinclair
or with more elaboration
No government fights fascism to destroy it. When the bourgeoisie sees that power is slipping out of its hands, it brings up fascism to hold onto their privileges. ~ B. Durruti

I'm sure you can find many "liberal" arguments that would tie Stalinism to Fascism. I hate Stalinism as much as the next guy. I'm not stupid though.

Why is the Red Fleet, if it's so defensive, engaged in destroying a small capitalist region when it could, for example, be passwording Marxism?

We don't get dictated to on which order we choose to raid or defend. We consider each operation on it's pro's and con's. Consider I rarely saw TUNAF ever engage on a defensive mission, maybe it was appropriate you were ejected from Antifa?

Because that's not a presumptive judgement of individual tendencies or anything.

I've not seen anything that suggests otherwise.

Mussolini a Fascist and a Corporatist. If we go with your own argument:

Fascism is not necessarily right-wing, nor does it always call itself fascism.

Surely it's simply a matter of finding enough common denominators? If so, I'm pleased to say I think there is enough.

If they were walking on eggshells, that implies they were actually concealing their true intentions, or at the very least diluting them to appease us.

Sorry, that's not the implication. Diplomacy works, but you've no respect for that either. Why did Antifa agree to an embassy with CPA if it doubted the sincerity of CPA's diplomacy?

Why would they be "walking on eggshells" (originally your words not mine) if there wasn't any divergence in interest? I don't know why Antifa agreed to construct an embassy. I'm not one of it's admins.

Comrade Hungry Freaks owns that lump. I merely paraphrased his sympathies.

He didn't say "sundry criminals" or "druggies" did he?

My mistake, it just reads like a list of those consigned to camps. Easy mistake to make I'm sure.

Your last two posts are pretty funny, Kikomunisti. I can see how much of an aversion you have to emotive language and skew.

We're all guilty of it. Some however to a degree that does disservice to the actual content of the discussion.

The 'delegate heading the mission' is Squadron Admiral of The Internationale Antifa Brigades Squadron, aka Saornil/Rebelde/Pasionara, aka The Internationale's founder. Pasionara and prominent TI member Marxingrad/BerZerk head Antifa. If that ain't an Antifa and a TI endorsement, tell me what is? You're running out of smoke to blow up the proverbial trapdoor.

Antifa's more than just two "admins".

By the way, are you Marxingrad?

Because all British leftists are arrogant Trots? Please...

You're somewhat confused. I'm here on behalf of myself and am hardly incognito. You know who I am. Straight from your most recent crystal ball readings: white, conservative Euro-American male; petit bourgeois opportunist. Who are the other supposed reps in disguise?

So you're not from Nazi Europe?

Also your putting words into my mouth (onto my keyboard?)

What's The Red Fleet, but a puppet dump for the big cheeses in The Internationale and Antifa? I want the badge applied to the region most likely to benefit from a wake-up call. That would not be a puppet dump.

The Red Fleet wasn't created by a member of either Antifa or The Internationale (the region was though), I'm also not a member of The Internationale, and lastly Antifa is a "puppet dump" of representatives from all of the major Antifa forces on NS. So why would it make any difference where that little badge went??

And I did note how you avoided answering how the regions capitalist and IMF were Nazi/fascist regions.

They were seized by SRBT I think. I wouldn't say they are "Nazi" regions. I'm just one admiral in the Fleet. I can't talk for all the ins and outs of every member of Antifa. SRBT was an anti-Capitalist region that merged with The Internationale and had forces in The Red Fleet. SRBT were also a member of Antifa, and it's leader created the Antifa region. I don't know who personally seized them.

[Norsklow]

An admiral who knows nothing. So very common denominatorish with German Generals who 'haben ess nicht gewusst'.

[Sedgistan]

-snip-

You sir, are the most laughable, inconsistent and idiotic person to have ever called himself a "leftist" I have ever seen in my entire life. Yeah. You have no idea, no idea about what Fascism is at all, do you? Here, let me fetch you a link so you can have a look at what Fascism actually is. Besides, does corporatism (and not plutocracy or corporatocracy) equate to capitalism to you? Oh, please, not one of those guys again. And then also equating Stalinism to Fascism? You must be happy CTALNH isn't here, he'd have been screaming at you by now. And so do I.

Mod Edit: Spoilering irrelevant RL debates:

So, to question your knowledge about Fascism, I'll give you a fine funny dazzling quiz to see if you actually took the time to read the page or are just one of those other uninformed people who have no idea what fascism is at all and yet go "omg fasism is da ebul we muz destroi et1!!1!1oneone".

1. What is Fascism?
Answers:
A) Fascism is a radically nationalist, authoritarian political ideology that seeks to unify their nation on base of an organic community organized by principles such as class collaboration and corporatism.
B) Fascism is when the bourgeois see their power fly away and try to commit a last stand.
C) omg fasism is ebul

2. What is corporatism?
A) The rule by corporations and the oppression of the proletarian classes as well as a form of laissez faire-capitalism.
B) Corporatism is an economic system, inspired by the ancient guild system, in which employers and employees are mandatorily members of "corporations", "guilds", or "estates" and negotiate wages, prices, and manage the economy collectively with the state to act as a third party when something goes wrong.
C) omg corporatizm

3. Is the principle of socialism in one country, a Stalinist principle, a part of Fascist ideology too?
A) Yes.
B) No.
C) omg stalinism is fascism and bot ar ebul

4. Is Fascism revolutionary? If yes, how?
A) Yes, fascism is revolutionary and wants to instate a "revolution from above".
B) Yes, fascism is revolutionary and wants to instate a "revolution from below".
C) No, fascism is not revolutionary.
D) umg fasesm reactionare

In the meantime, to get back on topic:

Yes, the OP is biased, and I believe that the proposal really is written from a biased viewpoint (seeing as the OP is a member of the GGR and the GGR is being invaded at the moment). However, I do believe that AntiFa, the Red Fleet, and those other invaderist imperialist organizations should stop committing such retarded acts, and a condemnation - of course written from an objective point of view and not subjective - would be something I support.

[Crazy girl]

You sir, are the most laughable, inconsistent and idiotic person to have ever called himself a "leftist" I have ever seen in my entire life.

*** Warned for flaming ***

[Novus Niciae]

I dug up the history on IMF and Capitalist and they were created by the current founder of each region respectively.
And Wayback machine and Internet Archive have nothing on them being in a state other than their current one (they have nothing at all...), so as far as I can tell they have always been under the control of their current founder.
They have been around for ages and nobody complained on the forums or proposed even a draft to liberate them that would suggest a raid ever took place.

And there is a world of difference between creating regions from scratch which is what the available evidence in these two cases seem to suggest and raiding a region and kicking all the natives out.

If the red fleet wants to create regions for whatever purpose the see fit then that is their business.

As far as I can tell from the limited evidence IMF and Capitalist have always been the way they are and I would welcome any evidence to the contrary. I looked for about an hour using the NS forum search function for anything related to this at about the time of an invasion/refound.

OOC: This is no easy task since looking for a region called IMF or capitalist on a site like this is like looking needle in a pile of similarly sized needles and wishing it was a haystack...

[Everbeek]

I dug up the history on IMF and Capitalist and they were created by the current founder of each region respectively.
And Wayback machine and Internet Archive have nothing on them being in a state other than their current one (they have nothing at all...), so as far as I can tell they have always been under the control of their current founder.

http://nsdossier.texasregion.net/histor ... capitalist and http://nsdossier.texasregion.net/histor ... region=imf seem to suggest you are right in that while there have been regions of those names before, they were already gone when they were refounded by the current founder (imf having last existed in 2004) so these are GGR-style raids at best.

[Defendingg]

SRBT is considered the military zone of the Red fleet.

SYNDICATED RED BLACK TENDENCIES of THE INTERNATIONALE
MILITARY ZONE of THE RED FLEET

and apparently people associated with this brand have also taken over The White House
looks like AntiJihadism was preemptively invaded to stop "fascists" from using it
Capitalism also invaded

[Sedgistan]

Ah, the irony. Sorry for this being in the wrong forum, mods.

Yes, that post has now been removed. Discussions of RL politics go elsewhere.

[Sedgistan]

Oswald Spengler gets an unofficial warning for continuing the threadjack, and his post has been removed. If others continue to threadjack this thread, they will get *** official warnings. ***

[Oswald Spengler]

Oswald Spengler gets an unofficial warning for continuing the threadjack, and his post has been removed. If others continue to threadjack this thread, they will get *** official warnings. ***

You are a fascist, follow your leader hitler and stalin, and commit suicide, you censor my comment for correctly stating that communism leads to nationalism, and that fascism is a genocidal ideology, not the same thing as the immoral and decadent capitalist system. Socialism is the answer, not marxism, which leads to nationalism.

[Reploid Productions]

Oswald Spengler gets an unofficial warning for continuing the threadjack, and his post has been removed. If others continue to threadjack this thread, they will get *** official warnings. ***

You are a fascist, follow your leader hitler and stalin, and commit suicide, you censor my comment for correctly stating that communism leads to nationalism, and that fascism is a genocidal ideology, not the same thing as the immoral and decadent capitalist system. Socialism is the answer, not marxism, which leads to nationalism.

*** 7-day ban for flaming and continuing the threadjack you just got told to quit with. *** We do not call other users names nor tell them to commit suicide, especially in response to a moderator who is doing what they are supposed to. I suggest you learn the rules and very seriously reconsider how you communicate on these boards. Be aware that using a puppet account to evade ban will result in the deletion of both accounts.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Marxingrad]

So I refrained from getting involved in this topic. But now there is a condemn The Red Fleet, I figured I'd go to both and settle scores.

Norsklow, Kiko knows more about the Fleet than most. The raids on Capitalist and IMF occurred before he was in the Fleet, I don't know how he was expected to know who conducted them or on what basis.

Yorkopolis, your discussion not only seems to confuse Kiko's point, but is also based on a Wikipedia link. Wikipedia is not the holy grail of knowledge, and if that is where you took your understanding of Fascism, you might as well have read it on the side of a cereal box. CPA never tagged as Fascist, that is correct, CPA had an embassy with Antifa, that is also correct. CPA however is a Corporate Alliance. You can argue that Corporatism isn't Capitalism, but it doesn't wash with me. As Kiko rightly pointed out, Mussolini advocated forms of Corporatism, one of the members of CPA actually arrived from Corporate Fascism, and the region generally had a right-leaning prejudice. If it wasn't Fascist, then so be it, it's still a legit target for the Fleet.

Kiko also never equated Stalinism with Fascism. He was arguing against that.

Kiko
Because all British leftists are arrogant Trots?

Thanks

[Nodin]

Why would they be "walking on eggshells" (originally your words not mine) if there wasn't any divergence in interest? I don't know why Antifa agreed to construct an embassy. I'm not one of it's admins.

I know those are my words. Where do you get the idea that the idiom means 'divergence in interest', or concealing/diluting true intentions?

Eggshell walk example: your wife wants your opinion of an outfit that you know she really digs. You believe it's unflattering, but candor got you the silent treatment or tears in the past, so you finesse your response. You tell her it brings out her eyes.

It's all beating around the bush. You're taking out CPA because 'Corporate' and 'Profit' are in the name. Sometimes playing this game with a straight face is hard.

We're all guilty of it. Some however to a degree that does disservice to the actual content of the discussion.

You sure you aren't a tad biased? I'm referring to the recent Communist emo-dumps on CPA's RMB.

So you're not from Nazi Europe?

I'm from Seattle, thanks. Can't recall when last I saw a Nazi cruising down the ville. His ass would be in a sling pretty fast, I can tell you that. Yelm and Rainier are more tolerant of that sort of thing—only because the Nazi tends to blend in with the Fort Lewis Ranger crowd.

[Leather-Uniformed Germany]

Yes, the OP is biased, and I believe that the proposal really is written from a biased viewpoint (seeing as the OP is a member of the GGR and the GGR is being invaded at the moment).

You are mistaken. The Greater German Reich ist invulnerable to invasion.

[Kikomunisti]

Why would they be "walking on eggshells" (originally your words not mine) if there wasn't any divergence in interest? I don't know why Antifa agreed to construct an embassy. I'm not one of it's admins.

I know those are my words. Where do you get the idea that the idiom means 'divergence in interest', or concealing/diluting true intentions?

Eggshell walk example: your wife wants your opinion of an outfit that you know she really digs. You believe it's unflattering, but candor got you the silent treatment or tears in the past, so you finesse your response. You tell her it brings out her eyes.

So a "divergence in interest"? I don't like the dress, she thinks I do. Therefore CPA don't like Antifa, but pretend to Antifa that they do? You just appear to have clarified my own words?!

It's all beating around the bush. You're taking out CPA because 'Corporate' and 'Profit' are in the name. Sometimes playing this game with a straight face is hard.

I'm taking out CPA because it's full of people who advocate the interests of CEO's over workers. I don't care whether it's name was just jiobndfoi, if it's pro-Capitalist, pro-Fascist, I'll be one of the first in their sword in hand and slashing it up.

We're all guilty of it. Some however to a degree that does disservice to the actual content of the discussion.

You sure you aren't a tad biased? I'm referring to the recent Communist emo-dumps on CPA's RMB.

Not sure I've taken part in the "emo-dumps". I'm just eating my food.

So you're not from Nazi Europe?

I'm from Seattle, thanks. Can't recall when last I saw a Nazi cruising down the ville. His ass would be in a sling pretty fast, I can tell you that. Yelm and Rainier are more tolerant of that sort of thing—only because the Nazi tends to blend in with the Fort Lewis Ranger crowd.

Cue the witty response. I clearly didn't mean physical geographical location. Nazi Europe doesn't exist in the physical world (unless you stuck in a time-warp?!), but you are Captain Woodhouse? You're also a member of "Hell". I'm presuming your pretty much at the very least very anti-Leftist, and possibly sympathetic to a lot of the ideals of Fascism. Even if you find the culture quite repugnant?

[Nodin]

So a "divergence in interest"? I don't like the dress, she thinks I do. Therefore CPA don't like Antifa, but pretend to Antifa that they do? You just appear to have clarified my own words?!

I feel like I'm stuck in the Arc de Triomphe roundabout. That's not my definition of 'divergence in interest', but if you believe it's synonymous with diplomacy and tact, then I've clarified your words. We're here because The Red Fleet and Antifa have an aversion to diplomacy, so it makes sense.

I'm taking out CPA because it's full of people who advocate the interests of CEO's over workers.

Identify them.

Not sure I've taken part in the "emo-dumps". I'm just eating my food.

I see you're grazing on jerky: Fred Goodwin. I can only imagine what a pig you'll make of yourself over Mary Callahan Erdoes on the dessert trolley.

I clearly didn't mean physical geographical location.

I know. I was hoping to draw you into reality. I'll never do it again.

but you are Captain Woodhouse?

Woodhouse, Woodlouse—either works. You can thank Antifa for the clever corruption.

You're also a member of "Hell".

I'm an appointed elder and one of three demigods, the latter title bestowed upon me by the resident commie, another elder. He and I received unofficial warnings for cybering each other during the last raid. I'll bet you didn't see that in the crystal ball you ripped off of Professor Marvel.

I'm presuming your pretty much at the very least very anti-Leftist, and possibly sympathetic to a lot of the ideals of Fascism. Even if you find the culture quite repugnant?

You can't be suggesting Hell is all that? Big Jim P is something of a munitions enthusiast and a nuclear weapons specialist, but it's no reason to pigeonhole the rest of us.

[The Great Destruction]

Just for the record I love that ban-hammer graphic, Reploid Productions.

[Norsklow]

So I refrained from getting involved in this topic. But now there is a condemn The Red Fleet, I figured I'd go to both and settle scores.

Norsklow, Kiko knows more about the Fleet than most. The raids on Capitalist and IMF occurred before he was in the Fleet, I don't know how he was expected to know who conducted them or on what basis.

Yorkopolis, your discussion not only seems to confuse Kiko's point, but is also based on a Wikipedia link. Wikipedia is not the holy grail of knowledge, and if that is where you took your understanding of Fascism, you might as well have read it on the side of a cereal box. CPA never tagged as Fascist, that is correct, CPA had an embassy with Antifa, that is also correct. CPA however is a Corporate Alliance. You can argue that Corporatism isn't Capitalism, but it doesn't wash with me. As Kiko rightly pointed out, Mussolini advocated forms of Corporatism, one of the members of CPA actually arrived from Corporate Fascism, and the region generally had a right-leaning prejudice. If it wasn't Fascist, then so be it, it's still a legit target for the Fleet.

Kiko also never equated Stalinism with Fascism. He was arguing against that.

Kiko
Because all British leftists are arrogant Trots?

Thanks

Marxingrad, I support a policy of non-interventionism.

It follows then that I consider that the idea of a legit target for the fleet to be oxymoronic, unless you are talking about an intervention to restore the status quo ante.

Obviously, it is not my power nor my right to determine site policy. And I am not suggesting a change of policy either. It's up to the Mods and possibly the SC.

If it were mine to do so, however, it would probably be my policy to deal with raiderist activities with an immediate deletion policy, unless a raiderist activity were undertaken at the request or demand of the Security Council. And likewise, it would be my policy that voluntary membership of a raiderist group- be it Red Fleet or Black Riders, would simply be dealt with by DOS.

AntiFA engages in raiderist activities - AntiFa must be treated as outlaws.